NAD: Mesa Dual Rec Multi-watt - Questions!

[napalmdeath]

What a beast! However, I'm thinking of going with EL34's...

First off, does a warmer pair of tubes to get the bias up make a big difference in getting rid of some of the fizz? Any suggestions on tubes, both power and preamp? I thought of some JJ KT77's or E34L's, for power section..

Second, the loop seems great, but I'm not sure it likes my RP1000. I think I may do away with it, and go back to all pedals.

I boosted it with a Savage Drive, Cusack Screamer, and Hardwire CM-2. Oddly enough, it seemed to REALLY love the CM-2!

So far, I really dig it, it sounds massive! However, it's incredibly loud, (almost stupid loud), but I'm finding Spongy mode really warms it up at lower volumes.

Still working through the FX loop, and finding that balance between the output volume, loop level volume, and channel master. It's undoubtedly, (which I already knew), an amp that needs some time to dial in, but so far, it's pretty obvious it's a nasty beast!

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I played it with treble@0 and this tames the fizz a great deal, but lots of volume helps that also with these amps. Like you said, they like to be played stupid loud to sound best.

 

[skullfxr]

I generally run treble low and compensate with a little more presence.

Bass not past 10 o'clock (if that). I like a 4x12 with k85's on top V30's on bottom, but have another mesa cab i will use with the Mesa V30's.

Try a Timmy i find great results with it.

Also E34L's sound great with it, just ask for a pair that are apec'd for mesa.

Bold and silicon is the only way to go for me, but YMMV.

 

[aftec]

Depends on what you are looking for. EL34 with Tube rectification, is instant amazing hard rock tone with the multiwatt without any boost.

 

[LunatiBSW]

Love the MW recto. For thick, aggressive tones, it hangs with the best.
It needs a boost IMO.
I’ve tried a lot and like the fortin blade and JHS bonsai which is like 11 different Ts type circuits.
My favorite is the JHS stronghold mod and the Keely mod.
The amp loves (top) k100/v30 (bottom) front load.

 

[Racerxrated]

Congrats! I hear the MW Rectos are very nice. I'm stuck on Triples, after owning a few Duals the low end is much tighter on the Triple without a boost. Great amps.

 

[jeff5]

When I had mine I boosted it with a Maxon OD 808 and used a modified Boss EQ in the loop. Sounded MASSIVE.

 

[metal_master]

Warmer biased tubes will give you stronger bass and more mids.
I tried KT77s in this amp and they made it less warm. They add a rounder/looser bass, very bright upper mids and they cut too much lower mids. Essentially, you hear more bass and upper mids. They made my recto multiwatt lose its fat recto character. JJ 6CA7s will cut the fizz and if they cut too much you can put a Tungsol 12ax7 in V1 to put some treble back in. This worked for me.

 

[metal_master]

What a beast! However, I'm thinking of going with EL34's...

First off, does a warmer pair of tubes to get the bias up make a big difference in getting rid of some of the fizz? Any suggestions on tubes, both power and preamp? I thought of some JJ KT77's or E34L's, for power section..

Second, the loop seems great, but I'm not sure it likes my RP1000. I think I may do away with it, and go back to all pedals.

I boosted it with a Savage Drive, Cusack Screamer, and Hardwire CM-2. Oddly enough, it seemed to REALLY love the CM-2!

So far, I really dig it, it sounds massive! However, it's incredibly loud, (almost stupid loud), but I'm finding Spongy mode really warms it up at lower volumes.

Still working through the FX loop, and finding that balance between the output volume, loop level volume, and channel master. It's undoubtedly, (which I already knew), an amp that needs some time to dial in, but so far, it's pretty obvious it's a nasty beast!

I replaced the rectifier tubes with JJ GZ34 tubes which made it pretty much as tight as SS mode and warmed up the sound. Never used SS mode after that as tube rectification sounded better.
Note: the stock 5UGB tubes are great for slow liquid leads but too saggy for fast metal rhythm.

 

[napalmdeath]

Warmer biased tubes will give you stronger bass and more mids.
I tried KT77s in this amp and they made it less warm. They add a rounder/looser bass, very bright upper mids and they cut too much lower mids. Essentially, you hear more bass and upper mids. They made my recto multiwatt lose its fat recto character. JJ 6CA7s will cut the fizz and if they cut too much you can put a Tungsol 12ax7 in V1 to put some treble back in. This worked for me.

I actually went the 6CA7 route. I had a new pair already, and Eddie at Eurotubes sent me a matching second pair.

He explained to me that the bias is much warmer in EL34 mode, and that you actually need a cooler tube, vs a warmer 6L6.

I'll say this, I put my Pro One probe on it last night, and the bias was only 19.2mA at a PV of 454 with the stock 6L6's. That's RIDICULOUSLY cold!

I had a quad of Valve Arts EL34's I took out of a new Splawn, and those went up to 30mA in EL34 mode. Much better, BUT, those tubes were lifeless, (which is why I yanked them from the Quick Rod anyway). Liked the EL34 feel, but not the best tubes. I'm guessing the JJ 6CA7's will sound warmer and beefier.

 

[aftec]

I'll say this, I put my Pro One probe on it last night, and the bias was only 19.2mA at a PV of 454 with the stock 6L6's. That's RIDICULOUSLY cold!

That's actually the same as with an SLO, which the Dual Rec was ripped of from.

 

[skullfxr]

I have never done the 6CA7 thing but may have to look into it. I have been happy with JJ E34L's for a while.

 

[metal_master]

Warmer biased tubes will give you stronger bass and more mids.
I tried KT77s in this amp and they made it less warm. They add a rounder/looser bass, very bright upper mids and they cut too much lower mids. Essentially, you hear more bass and upper mids. They made my recto multiwatt lose its fat recto character. JJ 6CA7s will cut the fizz and if they cut too much you can put a Tungsol 12ax7 in V1 to put some treble back in. This worked for me.

I actually went the 6CA7 route. I had a new pair already, and Eddie at Eurotubes sent me a matching second pair.

He explained to me that the bias is much warmer in EL34 mode, and that you actually need a cooler tube, vs a warmer 6L6.

I'll say this, I put my Pro One probe on it last night, and the bias was only 19.2mA at a PV of 454 with the stock 6L6's. That's RIDICULOUSLY cold!

I had a quad of Valve Arts EL34's I took out of a new Splawn, and those went up to 30mA in EL34 mode. Much better, BUT, those tubes were lifeless, (which is why I yanked them from the Quick Rod anyway). Liked the EL34 feel, but not the best tubes. I'm guessing the JJ 6CA7's will sound warmer and beefier.

Same. Eddie at Eurotubes sold me a cold set of 6CA7 to run in el34 mode it the bias was around 40ma. It sounded fantastic. Definitely a warm punchy sound. Bottom end of a 6l6 with the mids of an el34.

 

[napalmdeath]

Warmer biased tubes will give you stronger bass and more mids.
I tried KT77s in this amp and they made it less warm. They add a rounder/looser bass, very bright upper mids and they cut too much lower mids. Essentially, you hear more bass and upper mids. They made my recto multiwatt lose its fat recto character. JJ 6CA7s will cut the fizz and if they cut too much you can put a Tungsol 12ax7 in V1 to put some treble back in. This worked for me.

I actually went the 6CA7 route. I had a new pair already, and Eddie at Eurotubes sent me a matching second pair.

He explained to me that the bias is much warmer in EL34 mode, and that you actually need a cooler tube, vs a warmer 6L6.

I'll say this, I put my Pro One probe on it last night, and the bias was only 19.2mA at a PV of 454 with the stock 6L6's. That's RIDICULOUSLY cold!

I had a quad of Valve Arts EL34's I took out of a new Splawn, and those went up to 30mA in EL34 mode. Much better, BUT, those tubes were lifeless, (which is why I yanked them from the Quick Rod anyway). Liked the EL34 feel, but not the best tubes. I'm guessing the JJ 6CA7's will sound warmer and beefier.

Same. Eddie at Eurotubes sold me a cold set of 6CA7 to run in el34 mode it the bias was around 40ma. It sounded fantastic. Definitely a warm punchy sound. Bottom end of a 6l6 with the mids of an el34.

Do you know the rating on them? I told him I had a pair rated 15, which is really cold.

 

[cardinal]

I've had a lot of Rectos.

IMHO the Recto's natural character is just fizzy and a bit furry. It just is. I think it's because the amp is actually pretty uncompressed for the amount of gain it can have, so theres just a lot of high end and low end extension (which people complain about as fizz and flub). But it's also why it sounds massive and mean.

Changing tubes doesn't "help." Boosting can compress and lop off top and bottom, tightening and reducing high-end fizz. It does change the Recto's character, but it's just different, not better or worse.

I think if you listen to recordings of the Recto, you can make out the fizz from it. But you have to listen for it as it generally just gets buried by the cymbals and the like. You mostly just hear the awesomeness of it.

But I wonder if a lot of folks struggling with a Recto really want a 5150. That amp to me is tighter, less fizzy, more compressed than the Recto and is idiot proof.

 

[Racerxrated]

I'll say this, I put my Pro One probe on it last night, and the bias was only 19.2mA at a PV of 454 with the stock 6L6's. That's RIDICULOUSLY cold!

That's actually the same as with an SLO, which the Dual Rec was ripped of from.

All 3 of the SLOs I owned, the bias was between 26-30ma. Maybe they come from Mike even lower? All of mine were used.

 

[Racerxrated]

I've had a lot of Rectos.

IMHO the Recto's natural character is just fizzy and a bit furry. It just is. I think it's because the amp is actually pretty uncompressed for the amount of gain it can have, so theres just a lot of high end and low end extension (which people complain about as fizz and flub). But it's also why it sounds massive and mean.

Changing tubes doesn't "help." Boosting can compress and lop off top and bottom, tightening and reducing high-end fizz. It does change the Recto's character, but it's just different, not better or worse.

I think if you listen to recordings of the Recto, you can make out the fizz from it. But you have to listen for it as it generally just gets buried by the cymbals and the like. You mostly just hear the awesomeness of it.

But I wonder if a lot of folks struggling with a Recto really want a 5150. That amp to me is tighter, less fizzy, more compressed than the Recto and is idiot proof.

I always wonder about guys talking about 'fizz'....my take is the 'fizz' just the high end with the amp running at a low volume. That 'fizz' goes away when you put some balls to it and turn up. No more 'fizz'.

 

[skullfxr]

I've had a lot of Rectos.

IMHO the Recto's natural character is just fizzy and a bit furry. It just is. I think it's because the amp is actually pretty uncompressed for the amount of gain it can have, so theres just a lot of high end and low end extension (which people complain about as fizz and flub). But it's also why it sounds massive and mean.

Changing tubes doesn't "help." Boosting can compress and lop off top and bottom, tightening and reducing high-end fizz. It does change the Recto's character, but it's just different, not better or worse.

I think if you listen to recordings of the Recto, you can make out the fizz from it. But you have to listen for it as it generally just gets buried by the cymbals and the like. You mostly just hear the awesomeness of it.

But I wonder if a lot of folks struggling with a Recto really want a 5150. That amp to me is tighter, less fizzy, more compressed than the Recto and is idiot proof.

I always wonder about guys talking about '....my take on fizz is the 'fizz' just the high end with the amp running at a low volume. That 'fizz' goes away when you put some balls to it and turn up. No more 'fizz'.

I tend to generally agree. At least usually some of the fizz comes off with volume.

 

[metal_master]

Warmer biased tubes will give you stronger bass and more mids.
I tried KT77s in this amp and they made it less warm. They add a rounder/looser bass, very bright upper mids and they cut too much lower mids. Essentially, you hear more bass and upper mids. They made my recto multiwatt lose its fat recto character. JJ 6CA7s will cut the fizz and if they cut too much you can put a Tungsol 12ax7 in V1 to put some treble back in. This worked for me.

I actually went the 6CA7 route. I had a new pair already, and Eddie at Eurotubes sent me a matching second pair.

He explained to me that the bias is much warmer in EL34 mode, and that you actually need a cooler tube, vs a warmer 6L6.

I'll say this, I put my Pro One probe on it last night, and the bias was only 19.2mA at a PV of 454 with the stock 6L6's. That's RIDICULOUSLY cold!

I had a quad of Valve Arts EL34's I took out of a new Splawn, and those went up to 30mA in EL34 mode. Much better, BUT, those tubes were lifeless, (which is why I yanked them from the Quick Rod anyway). Liked the EL34 feel, but not the best tubes. I'm guessing the JJ 6CA7's will sound warmer and beefier.

Same. Eddie at Eurotubes sold me a cold set of 6CA7 to run in el34 mode it the bias was around 40ma. It sounded fantastic. Definitely a warm punchy sound. Bottom end of a 6l6 with the mids of an el34.

Do you know the rating on them? I told him I had a pair rated 15, which is really cold.

Sure, I just found the original receipt. It was Eurotubes #29 grade. At the time, that was the coldest grade they had and it was safe to use at the amps hottest settings (Bold, Solid State). Ran at approx 40ma

 

[metal_master]

I've had a lot of Rectos.

IMHO the Recto's natural character is just fizzy and a bit furry. It just is. I think it's because the amp is actually pretty uncompressed for the amount of gain it can have, so theres just a lot of high end and low end extension (which people complain about as fizz and flub). But it's also why it sounds massive and mean.

Changing tubes doesn't "help." Boosting can compress and lop off top and bottom, tightening and reducing high-end fizz. It does change the Recto's character, but it's just different, not better or worse.

I think if you listen to recordings of the Recto, you can make out the fizz from it. But you have to listen for it as it generally just gets buried by the cymbals and the like. You mostly just hear the awesomeness of it.

But I wonder if a lot of folks struggling with a Recto really want a 5150. That amp to me is tighter, less fizzy, more compressed than the Recto and is idiot proof.

I always wonder about guys talking about 'fizz'....my take is the 'fizz' just the high end with the amp running at a low volume. That 'fizz' goes away when you put some balls to it and turn up. No more 'fizz'.

To be honest, I never found my Dual rec multiwatt to be fizzy. It had a very bright presence in the upper treble region but no fizz as such. I kept my presence at around 8 oclock, treble between 12 and 1 o'clock, gain at 2:30 and absolutely no fizz with enough top end clarity to avoid sounding muddy.
Taking the gain up past 2:30 and raising the presence or treble too high can make it fizzy. The Mesa is unlike other amps and running any EQ setting too high can make that frequency very sharp.
With one exception though...this amp is so scooped that it benefits with the mids at around 3 oclock and that to me makes it sound balanced. Getting rid of the Mesa branded JJ preamp tubes is essential though. Chinese pre tubes shift the midrange from mid/mids to upper mids spectrum and this gives much better note definition.