Never buying an amp again?

[iplayloudly]

It def feels like modelers and multi fx before were like 85-90% there compared to a real amp and now it's closer to 95-97%. I'd love to try a helix into a clean tube amp because I think in a band mix it would be just fine but I've gone down that road several times before and always gone back to amps and pedals.

What I will say is all I'm doing right now is playing at home so that's all I need. If I was to get into a band I would need something like a Marshall DSL or a dual rectifier to be able to hang with the drummer. I'm more talking about coming through the PA and less about jamming in a band setting.

I play in a band and have been going direct for years. I used a few Sansamp Character series pedals for a long time and recently switched to using a Headrush board. Sounds great out front and we all use in-ears so stage volume doesn't matter.

 

[PBGas]

I like having both options. Sometimes you get bored of one or the other and switch things around. It's a great time to be a guitar player!

 

[blackba]

As long as I can continue to use an amp live, I will continue to do so. My Mesa TA-15 is my main gigging amp, can't get much lighter and easy to carry than that.

If I have to go direct, I plan to go with a tube preamp from Effectrode or Kingsley into a Cab/power amp sim. The problem I have with the digital modelers if having time to dial them them and being able to adjust on the fly.

 

[JTyson]

I haven't owned an amp in quite some time. I never thought that I'd get to this point, but the modeling and software really has gotten to the point that I don't need an amp any more. The only thing that I'm missing is feedback. I used to incorporate a lot of controlled feedback into my playing and that's not the easiest thing to approximate or achieve.

have you tried one of these?

Yep, Ive had one for several months and they work as advertised. Any note, anywhere on the fretboard, notes out of chords, whatever you need. They are a smidge akward for 15 minutes, then you figure it out. I use it on cleans more than gain tones, my Langners will pretty much give you feedback at will if you want it, but its really cool to get it out of a clean signal

 

[crankyrayhanky]

NO

 

[Steinmetzify]

Fryette GP/DI and a Kemper.

Just sold my 6505; basically had to give that motherfucker away. I had a 5150 I had out here on CL for like 6 months at $350....took it down and gave it to my brother cause fuck it.

Unless something fully amazing comes out I think I’m set.

Agree with the OP.

 

[BrentSSL]

As long as I can continue to use an amp live, I will continue to do so. My Mesa TA-15 is my main gigging amp, can't get much lighter and easy to carry than that.

If I have to go direct, I plan to go with a tube preamp from Effectrode or Kingsley into a Cab/power amp sim. The problem I have with the digital modelers if having time to dial them them and being able to adjust on the fly.

What kind of music do you play?

 

[glpg80]

Fryette GP/DI and a Kemper.

Just sold my 6505; basically had to give that motherfucker away. I had a 5150 I had out here on CL for like 6 months at $350....took it down and gave it to my brother cause fuck it.

Unless something fully amazing comes out I think I’m set.

Agree with the OP.

It's a brutal time to be putting a 5150 on the market these days. The 30 year old ones are still working to the point they've driven the price down across the board for even newer ones. I've been contemplating selling mine for years but every time I put a fair price for the used market (-20% off new) since I'm the original owner, I get one or two bites for shit trades and that's about it.

 

[Valtyr]

I’m just doing home recording these days and my most recent modeler was an Amplifire 12. I found dropping an sm57 in front of my amp still produces better and quicker results with minimal tweaking than anything I got from the modeler.

 

[Oblivion DC]

It's a brutal time to be putting a 5150 on the market these days. The 30 year old ones are still working to the point they've driven the price down across the board for even newer ones. I've been contemplating selling mine for years but every time I put a fair price for the used market (-20% off new) since I'm the original owner, I get one or two bites for shit trades and that's about it.

I hope I don’t come off like I’m trying to be a dick but MSRP on a new 5150 is 1500.00. If you’re talking about 20% off of that price, then yeah, no ones gonna pay 1200 for a used 5150.

 

[glpg80]

It's a brutal time to be putting a 5150 on the market these days. The 30 year old ones are still working to the point they've driven the price down across the board for even newer ones. I've been contemplating selling mine for years but every time I put a fair price for the used market (-20% off new) since I'm the original owner, I get one or two bites for shit trades and that's about it.

I hope I don’t come off like I’m trying to be a dick but MSRP on a new 5150 is 1500.00. If you’re talking about 20% off of that price, then yeah, no ones gonna pay 1200 for a used 5150.

Name one company that sells to consumers at MSRP. Apply a bit of common sense, please.

 

[BrentSSL]

Fryette GP/DI and a Kemper.

Just sold my 6505; basically had to give that motherfucker away. I had a 5150 I had out here on CL for like 6 months at $350....took it down and gave it to my brother cause fuck it.

Unless something fully amazing comes out I think I’m set.

Agree with the OP.

It's a brutal time to be putting a 5150 on the market these days. The 30 year old ones are still working to the point they've driven the price down across the board for even newer ones. I've been contemplating selling mine for years but every time I put a fair price for the used market (-20% off new) since I'm the original owner, I get one or two bites for shit trades and that's about it.

Trying to sell anything amp wise is getting harder and harder. 100 watts are a thing of the past I sold my single rec so fast my head spun. But it took me almost a year to see dual rectifier.

 

[squank]

It def feels like modelers and multi fx before were like 85-90% there compared to a real amp and now it's closer to 95-97%. I'd love to try a helix into a clean tube amp because I think in a band mix it would be just fine but I've gone down that road several times before and always gone back to amps and pedals.

What I will say is all I'm doing right now is playing at home so that's all I need. If I was to get into a band I would need something like a Marshall DSL or a dual rectifier to be able to hang with the drummer. I'm more talking about coming through the PA and less about jamming in a band setting.

There are three kinds of guitarists in these discussions:

1) the ones who have made the effort to find their tones via modern (I mean stuff made in the past few years) digital gear or a pedalboard and tiny SS amp;

2) the ones who haven't really made the effort, maybe tried a POD or an 11Rack or the first Axe-FX that had horrible presets and gave up; and

3) those die-hard tube amp lovers who won't consider ditching their amps, so they don't even try to get their tones from alternative gear, and they shit talk it without knowing it.

Everyone is free to choose their gear, of course. But it's simply not accurate to claim that modern digital gear, or a pedalboard with boutique pedals and a micro SS power amp won't serve your tonal needs. It will. You just haven't made the effort to get it to give up the goods (there IS a learning curve), or you need some help in tweaking the gear.

Nobody is trying to force anybody to change what they play. But I challenge these misleading claims of telling people that gear other than tube amps is inferior, tonally, to what you have. 99.99% of the time, it will get you there. Some people don't want to hear that, but it's true.

If you love tube amps, by all means, stick with them. But their days are numbered.

I'm not saying this because I bought my first Axe-FX 10 years ago, because back then, its tone was only good enough for a club gig, but not good enough for me playing at home. Now that's changed. Kemper hits it out of the park. The new tiny SS amps like the ISP Ultra Lite deliver 100% of your awesome analog pedal tones to your cab. That's reality now.

These sad, tired claims about players that use modelers getting lost in the mix just because they are using modelers is an old Line 6 reality. Today, if your tone gets lost in the mix with modern digital gear, that's because you haven't learned how to dial it in. Some people don't know how to dial in a tube amp in a band setting, either, and their tone gets lost in the mix. There's operator error involved in some of this.

 

[dirtyfunkg]

I personally think I've found my perfect mix by going 4CM with any of my amps and my Helix. The most convenient setup is my GP/DI with Power Station and Fryette R112, with the Helix 4CM using an AC30 model for clean and a classic rock crunch on the snapshots, then the GP/DI set up for a heavy but slightly loose tone, with one more snapshot engaging the Stupor OD in the Helix to push the GP/DI for a tight metal sound. All other effects are through the Helix.

This is a super convenient setup for live, recording, or rehearsals. I have a K10.2 also if I choose to use it instead of the R112, but I do really like using the Power Station and R112 for a real cab that's just about as portable. I can also use both if I so desire, but this rig allows me to use the K10.2 solely for vocal monitoring purposes in rehearsals.

When I want to get specific flavors I can't get out of the Helix and GP/DI, I have my D-Moll and Sig X, both of which are capable of sounds I just can't get otherwise. I have no intention of selling them because they still make my smile bigly when I plug in and crank it through one of my big cabs.

 

[glpg80]

It def feels like modelers and multi fx before were like 85-90% there compared to a real amp and now it's closer to 95-97%. I'd love to try a helix into a clean tube amp because I think in a band mix it would be just fine but I've gone down that road several times before and always gone back to amps and pedals.

What I will say is all I'm doing right now is playing at home so that's all I need. If I was to get into a band I would need something like a Marshall DSL or a dual rectifier to be able to hang with the drummer. I'm more talking about coming through the PA and less about jamming in a band setting.

There are three kinds of guitarists in these discussions:

1) the ones who have made the effort to find their tones via modern (I mean stuff made in the past few years) digital gear or a pedalboard and tiny SS amp;

2) the ones who haven't really made the effort, maybe tried a POD or an 11Rack or the first Axe-FX that had horrible presets and gave up; and

3) those die-hard tube amp lovers who won't consider ditching their amps, so they don't even try to get their tones from alternative gear, and they shit talk it without knowing it.

Everyone is free to choose their gear, of course. But it's simply not accurate to claim that modern digital gear, or a pedalboard with boutique pedals and a micro SS power amp won't serve your tonal needs. It will. You just haven't made the effort to get it to give up the goods (there IS a learning curve), or you need some help in tweaking the gear.

Nobody is trying to force anybody to change what they play. But I challenge these misleading claims of telling people that gear other than tube amps is inferior, tonally, to what you have. 99.99% of the time, it will get you there. Some people don't want to hear that, but it's true.

If you love tube amps, by all means, stick with them. But their days are numbered.

I'm not saying this because I bought my first Axe-FX 10 years ago, because back then, its tone was only good enough for a club gig, but not good enough for me playing at home. Now that's changed. Kemper hits it out of the park. The new tiny SS amps like the ISP Ultra Lite deliver 100% of your awesome analog pedal tones to your cab. That's reality now.

These sad, tired claims about players that use modelers getting lost in the mix just because they are using modelers is an old Line 6 reality. Today, if your tone gets lost in the mix with modern digital gear, that's because you haven't learned how to dial it in. Some people don't know how to dial in a tube amp in a band setting, either, and their tone gets lost in the mix. There's operator error involved in some of this.

And that's your opinion and you're allowed to have one. On more than one account I've heard modelers get thin and lack depth. Not low end, but depth. A modeler will always be exactly that - a modeler. They're limited by the speed of the FPGAs currently around which can process sound through the measured frequency response of whatever it's modeling transferred to the time domain.

I've tried running them and side by side and there's absolutely no contest in the room which sounds more full and punches you in the chest. Modelers have always had a bad wrap due to needing tweaking to get to sound right. These are all things I have found when trying to run them against what I own. People also end up chasing the next best update instead of playing guitar. Never had that problem with my tube stuff or my analog effects. I enjoy spending more time playing than tweaking - all valid reasons for tube stuff to still stick around.

Modelers are great but they're always going to be competing against tubes. If you want to argue otherwise, go tell Cliff he needs to release a tube preamp version over on the axe-forums and report back your account status.

 

[Ventura]

I have to bite.

The AFX-III seems killer. But I've been down their road before - the techie connection - the new releases - FW upgrades - the condescending tone on the forum - and outside of all that shit I could easily turn a blind eye (and ear) to, I found myself rabbit-holing continuously. For example "got this amp I love when it hits 1 o'clock on the MV, attenuator works great, off axis 151 and 57 on a V30 and GB and it's god-like", now, I've got this whiz-bang multi-amp modeller - and it's got ALL THE PARAMETERS, but fuck me it takes a week to tweak.

I came to the realization - there are sonic and effects laden "pioneers" out there - Adrian Belew, Heavy Devy, Frank Zappa (RIP), Dweezil, etc. and MANY others. They - these "pioneers" are always "pioneering new tones", that's their schtick - and righteously so!! But they don't have a "signature tone", it's not in their blood to find it and stick with it - they're always pushing the envelope - and I love them for it... But there's also the cats who have their signature tones - too many to even touch on here - and they've been using the same or similar kit for decades now. Why? Cuz it inspires them to keep doing what they're doing. And they like what they sound like, and they "found their tone".

I found my "family" of tone. And I've got about 15-20 effects, I could pare that down to 5 necessary, 10 optional. And that's what I've done. Got my family of amps, and I'm just racking all my FX onto 2 drawers, using a GCX patch panel for loops, GCP for my feet, power conditioner, and that's that - Wah, Exp Pedal and GCP on the ground - everything else in a roll-away 16U case. Also houses 4 different mics, an 8Pre and snakes. One stop shopping and no rabbit-holes.

Happy.

 

[ChurchHill]

Yeah, I'll bite, too. I've heard people foretelling the imminent demise of tube amps for 30+ years. Still seem lively to me, and I can promise that my tube amps will outlive me. After that, I doubt I'll know or even care.

I'll also add that it doesn't matter what someone's using, if they're not cutting through in the mix, either they or the soundman doesn't know how to dial in their gear. Getting something to sound good in your personal practice space isn't the same as getting it to sound good with a band, in a mix. Doesn't matter if it's a modeler or a Herbert (and if anybody has difficulty getting a Herbert to cut, I'll be more than happy to give them lessons).

I think there's a fourth type of guitarist here... one who has tried both and found which one works for them, but is open-minded enough to realize that what works for one may not work for another and respects others' choices, even if they're different choices than the ones they themselves have made.

Not saying that anyone here is being disrespectful, just that it takes all kinds. Thank God we don't all play the same guitars and amps and effects and whatever. How boring would that be? Thank God for the pioneers of tone, like Ventura pointed out, players like Les Paul for instance. We all need people to push the envelope. And thank God for players who've been playing the same rig for years. I think we need that, too... can you imagine EVH or Angus Young playing through The Edge's rig?? I think I can, but I'm not really sure I want to.

One last thing... isn't it amazing that we have all the great choices in gear that we do these days? It's an awesome time to be a guitarist, although my wallet might disagree occasionally... LOL!

 

[MetalHeadMike]

There's no way in Hell I could go the modeler route. I'd spend way too much time pushing buttons and turning knobs and then there's the firmware upgrades and having to connect and all that shit. I bet its fun, I'm sure there's GREAT tones to be had, and it's great for some, but I'd go nuts. As someone who does not embrace techy stuff, I'll keep my tube amps.

 

[dirtyfunkg]

Yeah, I'll bite, too. I've heard people foretelling the imminent demise of tube amps for 30+ years. Still seem lively to me, and I can promise that my tube amps will outlive me. After that, I doubt I'll know or even care.

I'll also add that it doesn't matter what someone's using, if they're not cutting through in the mix, either they or the soundman doesn't know how to dial in their gear. Getting something to sound good in your personal practice space isn't the same as getting it to sound good with a band, in a mix. Doesn't matter if it's a modeler or a Herbert (and if anybody has difficulty getting a Herbert to cut, I'll be more than happy to give them lessons).

I think there's a fourth type of guitarist here... one who has tried both and found which one works for them, but is open-minded enough to realize that what works for one may not work for another and respects others' choices, even if they're different choices than the ones they themselves have made.

Not saying that anyone here is being disrespectful, just that it takes all kinds. Thank God we don't all play the same guitars and amps and effects and whatever. How boring would that be? Thank God for the pioneers of tone, like Ventura pointed out, players like Les Paul for instance. We all need people to push the envelope. And thank God for players who've been playing the same rig for years. I think we need that, too... can you imagine EVH or Angus Young playing through The Edge's rig?? I think I can, but I'm not really sure I want to.

One last thing... isn't it amazing that we have all the great choices in gear that we do these days? It's an awesome time to be a guitarist, although my wallet might disagree occasionally... LOL!

Amen to those who fit the bold category.

My deal is I like/appreciate both ways of doing things, and see that there are ways to integrate them. Love my amps, love my Helix. I've found that, by virtue of a silent, plug and play solution in the Helix, I play more guitar now than I've been able to play since when I was single and child-less. That I also have the option of using that as the foundation of a rehearsal/live/recording rig is pretty sweet, and it's really nice on my back, but it's not necessarily tonally superior to using an amp and cab with a bunch of Boss/DOD/Digitech level pedals.

 

[BYTOR]

I’d bet victim5150 with his AX8 live tones in his Ozzy tribute band sounds as good or better than any of you tube guys live. Let’s hear your live clips against his.

I don’t live in this “it can only be one or the other” world that some of you are trapped in. Great tube amps & the best modelers/profilers get along just fine in my house. Just like my many different guitars....