Note to Steve Vai...

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'63-Strat":2k55zr7b said:
Most music majors could and Vai did go to Berklee though left before graduating.

Right....I said "rock guitarists of his stature", meaning legendary pro players. Van Halen, Beck, Wylde, Lynch, etc. The only rock players of that stature I can think of who could transcribe and write standard notation at that level would be Satriani, Petrucci, maybe Skolnick, probably Rhoads had he lived. There are not many.
 
Soulstealer":3bbg6zpc said:
'63-Strat":3bbg6zpc said:
Most music majors could and Vai did go to Berklee though left before graduating.

Right....I said "rock guitarists of his stature", meaning legendary pro players. Van Halen, Beck, Wylde, Lynch, etc. The only rock players of that stature I can think of who could transcribe and write standard notation at that level would be Satriani, Petrucci, maybe Skolnick, probably Rhoads had he lived. There are not many.

Sure but my point is amongst the guys you should compare him to (and did above) transcribing music to standard notation is a normal thing because they all speak the language. It's silly to compare guys like Lynch to him IMO.
 
mentoneman":f2241lk4 said:
oh yay my favorite topic; countess vaicula :rock:

tumblr_m662yjuQif1qiil8do1_1280.jpg


my admiration for him as a studio player came and went with the blue powder soundpage he did for guitar player in the mid 80s. it had some actual raw tone and playing moments that i though were great if you filtered out the non stop whammy pitch nonsense and quadruple overdubs. in my mind it's as close to my interest in hearing the guy play an entire album with a les paul and bassman as he ever achieved, with boy from seattle off alien love secrets as a distant second. maybe a delay and overdrive pedal would be ok, but drop the zany dry humping cartoon whammy wang bar sound fx shtick already.

i always took it as if he was influenced by his satch guitar lessons days playing outside the box vibrato bar chaos, but never matured fully enough to know when too much goody or weird was too much. satch has some of that in his early playing and recording too but he never seemed gawdy to me and was infinitely more interesting and mature as a player.

so i'll admit blue powder was pretty cool for that time era, however if i had to "watch" him track that in the studio-particularly the "tender" parts, i would have thrown up in my mouth.

his live tone and performance with roth on eatum and smile tour was impressive as well. the musical interplay with sheehan was fun to watch and listen to. more so than the studio album which again for me was so campy and silly compared to a typical VH album. it was the start of feeling like vai contaminated anyone he played with by making the misix silly and gimmick laden.

vai did the same thing with whitesnake. compare the sykes album with slip of the dung and it's a serious WTF gypsy disco b movie soundtrack. same with alcatrazz. for the record i consider graham bonnett's vocal performances on a par with eavesdropping in on a heated phone conversation between charles neslon riley and gilbert gilbert godfried, so any alcatrazz song is fabulously uprooted the instant that ear rapist cracks his pie hole, but as for the guitar playing and tone, alcatrazz w/yngwie was a life changing record i played until the grooves wore smooth. an amply hairy pair of mastodon testicles heaving to and fro in slow motion across the pre ice age volcanic tundra, compared to vai's discarded fly pubes on cold chicken nuggets happy meal. he disturbed my peace for sure. i think i listened to that album once or twice front to back and never listened again. utter disappointment.

Mentoneman, great read and loved the thought you put into your post!! What I'd give to read a book introduction that you contributed! :rock: :thumbsup:

BTW, the 'Charles Nelson Reilly and Gilbert Gottfried' reference is CLASSIC! :yes: :lol: :LOL:
 
'63-Strat":3uayupt1 said:
Soulstealer":3uayupt1 said:
'63-Strat":3uayupt1 said:
Most music majors could and Vai did go to Berklee though left before graduating.

Right....I said "rock guitarists of his stature", meaning legendary pro players. Van Halen, Beck, Wylde, Lynch, etc. The only rock players of that stature I can think of who could transcribe and write standard notation at that level would be Satriani, Petrucci, maybe Skolnick, probably Rhoads had he lived. There are not many.

Sure but my point is amongst the guys you should compare him to (and did above) transcribing music to standard notation is a normal thing because they all speak the language. It's silly to compare guys like Lynch to him IMO.

It's not silly at all. Comparing him to Pat Metheny just because they both went to Berklee would be silly for the point I'm making in the first place, because they don't even play the same style of music. Jazz players are expected to have excellent musical theory knowledge. Rock players really are not.
 
Soulstealer":1npozrvq said:
'63-Strat":1npozrvq said:
Soulstealer":1npozrvq said:
'63-Strat":1npozrvq said:
Most music majors could and Vai did go to Berklee though left before graduating.

Right....I said "rock guitarists of his stature", meaning legendary pro players. Van Halen, Beck, Wylde, Lynch, etc. The only rock players of that stature I can think of who could transcribe and write standard notation at that level would be Satriani, Petrucci, maybe Skolnick, probably Rhoads had he lived. There are not many.

Sure but my point is amongst the guys you should compare him to (and did above) transcribing music to standard notation is a normal thing because they all speak the language. It's silly to compare guys like Lynch to him IMO.

It's not silly at all. Comparing him to Pat Metheny just because they both went to Berklee would be silly for the point I'm making in the first place, because they don't even play the same style of music. Jazz players are expected to have excellent musical theory knowledge. Rock players really are not.

Yes, comparing someone who went to Berklee or any college music program to anyone that didn't and being surprised that that the former can transcribe music (gasp!) is silly.
 
'63-Strat":2li219tw said:
Soulstealer":2li219tw said:
'63-Strat":2li219tw said:
Soulstealer":2li219tw said:
'63-Strat":2li219tw said:
Most music majors could and Vai did go to Berklee though left before graduating.

Right....I said "rock guitarists of his stature", meaning legendary pro players. Van Halen, Beck, Wylde, Lynch, etc. The only rock players of that stature I can think of who could transcribe and write standard notation at that level would be Satriani, Petrucci, maybe Skolnick, probably Rhoads had he lived. There are not many.

Sure but my point is amongst the guys you should compare him to (and did above) transcribing music to standard notation is a normal thing because they all speak the language. It's silly to compare guys like Lynch to him IMO.

It's not silly at all. Comparing him to Pat Metheny just because they both went to Berklee would be silly for the point I'm making in the first place, because they don't even play the same style of music. Jazz players are expected to have excellent musical theory knowledge. Rock players really are not.

Yes, comparing someone who went to Berklee or any college music program to anyone that didn't and being surprised that that the former can transcribe music (gasp!) is silly.


Forget it, you are missing my point.
 
Soulstealer":18l839sh said:
'63-Strat":18l839sh said:
Soulstealer":18l839sh said:
'63-Strat":18l839sh said:
Soulstealer":18l839sh said:
'63-Strat":18l839sh said:
Most music majors could and Vai did go to Berklee though left before graduating.

Right....I said "rock guitarists of his stature", meaning legendary pro players. Van Halen, Beck, Wylde, Lynch, etc. The only rock players of that stature I can think of who could transcribe and write standard notation at that level would be Satriani, Petrucci, maybe Skolnick, probably Rhoads had he lived. There are not many.

Sure but my point is amongst the guys you should compare him to (and did above) transcribing music to standard notation is a normal thing because they all speak the language. It's silly to compare guys like Lynch to him IMO.

It's not silly at all. Comparing him to Pat Metheny just because they both went to Berklee would be silly for the point I'm making in the first place, because they don't even play the same style of music. Jazz players are expected to have excellent musical theory knowledge. Rock players really are not.

Yes, comparing someone who went to Berklee or any college music program to anyone that didn't and being surprised that that the former can transcribe music (gasp!) is silly.


Forget it, you are missing my point.

Because your point is just a tired stereotype.
 
Kapo_Polenton":1lhiyr8l said:
Anyway, the bonnet typing everything in CAPS comment was hilarious and so true.

Gotta admit, that is pretty damned funny! haha
 
'63-Strat":28hwbhy1 said:
Soulstealer":28hwbhy1 said:
'63-Strat":28hwbhy1 said:
Soulstealer":28hwbhy1 said:
'63-Strat":28hwbhy1 said:
Soulstealer":28hwbhy1 said:
'63-Strat":28hwbhy1 said:
Most music majors could and Vai did go to Berklee though left before graduating.

Right....I said "rock guitarists of his stature", meaning legendary pro players. Van Halen, Beck, Wylde, Lynch, etc. The only rock players of that stature I can think of who could transcribe and write standard notation at that level would be Satriani, Petrucci, maybe Skolnick, probably Rhoads had he lived. There are not many.

Sure but my point is amongst the guys you should compare him to (and did above) transcribing music to standard notation is a normal thing because they all speak the language. It's silly to compare guys like Lynch to him IMO.

It's not silly at all. Comparing him to Pat Metheny just because they both went to Berklee would be silly for the point I'm making in the first place, because they don't even play the same style of music. Jazz players are expected to have excellent musical theory knowledge. Rock players really are not.

Yes, comparing someone who went to Berklee or any college music program to anyone that didn't and being surprised that that the former can transcribe music (gasp!) is silly.


Forget it, you are missing my point.

Because your point is just a tired stereotype.

Ok, fine, let's go back to my original post, which contains the original point-

"Hard to be smoke and mirrors when you have the musical knowledge he does. He transcribed an entire songbook of Zappa tunes in standard notation, for example. There are not many rock guitarists of his stature that could do something like that."

The key part of that statement is OF HIS STATURE. That does not mean any player that went to a school and got a degree, or any average rock player. I'm talking about guys that are regularly recognized as having years and years of influence, at the highest professional level. Legends. No matter how great a player, no matter how knowledgable, it is RARE to find as schooled a ROCK player as Vai OF HIS STATURE. I was defending Vai from the accusation that he was just tricks and flash with no substance. My point being, yes, he's a MUSIC MAJOR who can transcribe extremely difficult and technical musical pieces. In 1985 especially, a flashy rock player with those kind of credentials was not common. He had a big influence on future generations of rock players to really learn how to read, write and be proficient in music theory. These days, in 2015, there are far more schooled rock players than there were 30 years ago. I don't argue that at all. There are plenty of guys who can write anything they do in standard notation or whatever. How many of Vai's PEERS are music majors? Not many, and that was my whole point in defending him. The OP got it.
 
Disturbing the Peace is one of the greatest hard rock albums EVER made & imo, the best vocal projects Steve's ever been a part of.
 
Mailman1971":tsrhw68i said:
crankyrayhanky":tsrhw68i said:
Let's not stop with Vai, I got notes out on all these b*tches:

  • EVH: ease up on the gain
    Kirk Hammett: ditch the wah and stop surfing
    Jimmy Page: clean up that slop
    Satriani: lay off the whammy bar
    Di Meola: get a whammy bar
    Buckethead: lose that bucket
You forgot....
Lynch - use more gain.
:lol: :LOL:
Right-O; here's some updates:


  • EVH: ease up on the gain
    George Lynch: crank up the gain
    Kirk Hammett: ditch the wah and stop surfing
    Jimmy Page: clean up that slop
    Satriani: lay off the whammy bar
    Di Meola: get a whammy bar
    Buckethead: lose that bucket
    Clapton: speed it up
    Rufus: slow it down
 



Yeah and whats with that haircut and handle on the guitar, dude needs to take some lessons ... [pun intended for the dumbasses]

If its possible to make love to a guitar i believe he's doing it here.
 
Obviously the OP is not a fan of Vai and that is his perogative. I believe Vai's status in the world of electric guitar cannot be disputed as he has inspired a legion of guitar players, sold a ton of albums, and inspired a guitar design that is still alive today. I read when he joined Alacatraz that he stated that he did not play like Yngwie nor did he or the band have a goal for him to completely copy him. At the end of the day, the Alcatraz Yngwie albums may be "iconic" to Yngwie fans (which I am) however, I believe these albums barely went gold...
 
Kapo_Polenton":74ryxz08 said:
Soulstealer":74ryxz08 said:
Hard to be smoke and mirrors when you have the musical knowledge he does. He transcribed an entire songbook of Zappa tunes in standard notation, for example. There are not many rock guitarists of his stature that could do something like that.

Fair point. I have no comeback for that one.

You haven't the whole thread. Also for the record I used to do the very same thing.... but now I think slamming an obviously accomplished guitarist's playing is fucking lame and high school mentality. Like music is a sport or competition. Posts like these are like the ones people on Twitter and Facbook post constantly about what they are eating and whether it's good or not. Seriously.... no one gives a shit.
 
Kapo_Polenton":1vgwvx4h said:
You probably never should have taken the Alcatrazz gig.... yikes he is horrible. Vibrato and terrible sloppy alternate picking. What would he do if his effects were taken away? That whammy effect... without it, would anything sound that impressive?


You forgot this on the bus. Now put it back on, sit down and lick the window again
And for the record in not Vai fanboy. I don't own single record of his or any of his gear. It's fine if you don't like him but have some respect. And yes, yes you are a troll this is like the 2nd or 3rd dickhead thread you have started in the last month.
 
it's no surprise the vai fan tally far outweighs the vai detractor

and i applaud his achievements. asked to fill some of the biggest shoes in rock gtr history at their zenith. living the dream making piles of cash playing guitar.

i can understand why people love him. i truly don't desire to insult people who admire him. or care to convice anyone not to like him or defend my reasoning.


but his playing and stage presence is so annoying to "me" it honestly causes me to question the musical depth and maturity of his fans and defenders. that is how shallow his playing sounds to me.

but here are some of my reasons:

1) if you rely on right hand tapping to make a repetitive pattern seem fast and flashy instead of creating a phrase that is more melodically and harmonically and rhythmically evolved you bother me.

2) if you grab the wang bar to dive bomb atonally to bail out of a lick gone wrong or can't use in melodically in a scale, or can't transition seamlessly betwen bar use and picking you bother me.

3) abusive whammy and wah pedal use bother me.


ergo..
 
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