OK so to the guys that have both. Kemper or Axe II

[stephen sawall]

What about this one ...

https://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... rtAmp.aspx

Really cool idea! Biggest issue I see is it doesn't matter what circuit you use, you're still stuck with whatever power tubes are in there and what transformers you have. It's like the Randall MTS stuff - I modded those modules for years, and enjoyed them and could get close to some stuff, but it's just not going to be the same without the correct transformers and power tubes. If you had a PERFECT AC30 schematic loaded into the MI flex smart amp, you're still fucked because you aren't running EL84s. Or the right transformer for 4xEL84s.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool, but you aren't going to get quite as far when you're stuck with the same transformers and power tubes.

Agree ... but there is many ways to change how a poweramp works. We do not know what they are doing with that yet or any of the details. I have been saying for years digital controlled analog is the future of gear. This is just a step forward.

 

[Ventura]

I think the other thing that needs to be mentioned here is they are "different" tools. They do "different" things. They're not an apples-to-apples comparison. It's more like apples-to-pears or something like that.

Just sayin'.

 

[rupe]

Got both units. They both can sound great. The Axe II is more fun overall to me because you can get more squishy saturated sustaining '80s tones out of it. The KPA is more stiff sounding and is great for AC/DC type stuff & lower gain tones.

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

 

[tweed]

I think the other thing that needs to be mentioned here is they are "different" tools. They do "different" things. They're not an apples-to-apples comparison. It's more like apples-to-pears or something like that.

Just sayin'.

That description isn't complicated enough and won't provide enough ammo for the ongoing arguing community. How about apples to pomegranates.

 

[Heritage Softail]

It more like applemelons to banannarines.

I have heard enough great Kemper vids to hear that it can do what I want sound wise. Just waiting for one to hit stock in Sam ash or GC to play it and see how it feels.

It is a great time for new things in gear.

 

[ratter]

Kemper guys, is there a good tape echo and a good tremolo?

Mike - There's an analog delay, and a good tremolo that also includes a ducking parameter.

One of the spots that they do have room for improvement are with the effects. Right now, you get an A,B,C and D slot that are called stompboxes. these are before the amp in the signal path. A feeds B feeds C etc. Almost all the effects can go here EXCEPT delay and reverb, those are always last. So you could have a tube screamer in all four, or a phaser in A, Tube screamer in B, phaser again in C, etc.

There are four more slots post amp - X, Mod, delay and reverb. Delay and reverb are fixed and can only be populated with delay and reverb. X and Mod can have anything placed in them - tube screamers, EQ, phaser, flange, tremolo, etc. It will affect the tone differently because it's post amp, or basically in a fx loop.

Speaking of which, there is an fx loop 'effect' so you could take say a real analog delay, and put it via the loop in any slot.

The way it limits you on effects is the biggest downer on the Kemper, but they have stated there will be changes on updates. I'm hoping for a good intelligent harmonizer, a tape delay, and the ability to put delays anywhere in the signal path. One nice thing is that effects are color coded, red is overdrive/distortions, purple is flange/modulation, yellow are EQs, etc. You can glance at the LEDs over your stomp or fx slots and tell by the color what's in there. You can also temporarily 'lock' effects, so for example I could dial in a reverb I liked with a weird echo, 'lock' them, then if I change patches it keeps those settings. You get the feeling they haven't done a lot of guitar stuff, but in many ways it's for the better.

If there's anything you wanted to hear in particular regarding the tremolo or delays, let me know and I'd be glad to do a really quick clip.

Pete

Thanks Pete. I'm for quality over quantity. Sounds like it's not really an issue with the Kemper.

 

[Anonymous]

Got both units. They both can sound great. The Axe II is more fun overall to me because you can get more squishy saturated sustaining '80s tones out of it. The KPA is more stiff sounding and is great for AC/DC type stuff & lower gain tones.

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

Maybe I just like stiff amps or something because in just some of the random profiles I've been running through, I'm getting stellar squishy saturated sustaining 80s tones.

I would never denigrate the Axe - great piece of gear - had the Ultra for several years and got great stuff out of it. The Kemper's ability to profile was what made me try it.

Steve

 

[ejecta]

And the aliasing I am sensitive to and can't get over. Internal sample rate 22.5 goes totally against nuyquist (for the geeks.)

Enjoy your Axe 2, but the internal sampling rate thing (and aliasing) as an excuse for why you don't care for the Kemper doesn't hold water.

But he can hear it!

Like Pete said the aliasing was fixed in 1.6 out now. It only seemed to bother a few super high gain guys. The 22.5 sample rate is a lie propagated by Cliff from Fractal...... the thing is even if it were true, that would just mean to me that Chris Kemper can get better tones than Fractal with less than half the sampling rate they use.

But he can hear it even though it's not true!

 

[BYTOR]

Got both units. They both can sound great. The Axe II is more fun overall to me because you can get more squishy saturated sustaining '80s tones out of it. The KPA is more stiff sounding and is great for AC/DC type stuff & lower gain tones.

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

The KPA internally has 2 distorted amp templates & 1 clean amp template.

Whatever amp you "profile" at a particular distorted setting the KPA EQ matches that amp setting & attaches that EQ match to one of the internal distorted templates it has. It does the same thing when you profile an amp at a clean setting.

Therefore when you change the tone knobs in a profile it reacts nothing like the actual amp that was profiled. This doesn't mean you can't get great sounds from the KPA, you certainly can, but the tone knob adjustments are based on the generic amp templates.

I really like my KPA & get some great sounds from it but it is definitely less chewey & squishy sounding than my Axe II. Leads also feel better on the Axe & has more harmonic saturated goodness to it.

The KPA because of its automated amp/mic/cab in one profile process,can get people a quicker organic tone. The Axe II is not an automated process but it's easy to get great sounds.

With the Axe II you have to choose an amp then match it to whatever cab you think fits & also a mic type if you want. This process can be a little less plug & play than the KPA, but gives you far more control over whatever sound you want. The Axe also includes all the actual tone stacks for the amps so the tone knobs & master volume adjustments are true to life.

I own & use both so I have real world unbiased everyday experience on both units. They bring very different things to the table, so owning both is not ridiculous or overkill.

 

[ejecta]

Got both units. They both can sound great. The Axe II is more fun overall to me because you can get more squishy saturated sustaining '80s tones out of it. The KPA is more stiff sounding and is great for AC/DC type stuff & lower gain tones.

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

I personally think that yes the profiles depend greatly on how the amp was captured.... that's been my experience and I feel it matters much more so than "what goes on under the hood". Great tone in great tone out..... crap in crap out. You aren't limited after the fact in that you can still make changes to the way the tone sounds.... however IMHO this works better for some parameters than others.


I agree with Steve and maybe he and I have a the same tastes when it comes to what some are calling "squish and saturation" but I have no problem getting what I feel is squish and saturation out of the higher gain profiles.

 

[Rogue]

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

Ejecta and I profiled my amp over the weekend. The profiled amp was tighter than the reference amp. It may be possible to dial in parameters after the fact to get some of that sag back in there, but the base profile lacked the squishiness of the reference amp.

Granted this was his (and my) first attempt at profiling, so there might could have been something else to have done to capture it more accurately. I wouldn't discount user error.

 

[gtr31]

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

Ejecta and I profiled my amp over the weekend. The profiled amp was tighter than the reference amp. It may be possible to dial in parameters after the fact to get some of that sag back in there, but the base profile lacked the squishiness of the reference amp.

Granted this was his (and my) first attempt at profiling, so there might could have been something else to have done to capture it more accurately. I wouldn't discount user error.

There is a sag parameter in Kemper ..

Outside of the feel difference .how close was the actually tone .95%??

 

[smellfinger]

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

Ejecta and I profiled my amp over the weekend. The profiled amp was tighter than the reference amp. It may be possible to dial in parameters after the fact to get some of that sag back in there, but the base profile lacked the squishiness of the reference amp.

Granted this was his (and my) first attempt at profiling, so there might could have been something else to have done to capture it more accurately. I wouldn't discount user error.

There is a sag parameter in Kemper ..

Outside of the feel difference .how close was the actually tone .95%??

My ex wife had a sag parameter on her boobs. It only worked one way though. Applied more.

 

[stratotone]

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

Ejecta and I profiled my amp over the weekend. The profiled amp was tighter than the reference amp. It may be possible to dial in parameters after the fact to get some of that sag back in there, but the base profile lacked the squishiness of the reference amp.

Granted this was his (and my) first attempt at profiling, so there might could have been something else to have done to capture it more accurately. I wouldn't discount user error.

Did you guys refine it afterwards with some chords? You can also refine a few times and get closer each time. I'd probably add some 'sag' on the amp settings, possibly compression from there also.

 

[rupe]

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

Ejecta and I profiled my amp over the weekend. The profiled amp was tighter than the reference amp. It may be possible to dial in parameters after the fact to get some of that sag back in there, but the base profile lacked the squishiness of the reference amp.

Granted this was his (and my) first attempt at profiling, so there might could have been something else to have done to capture it more accurately. I wouldn't discount user error.

There is a sag parameter in Kemper ..

Outside of the feel difference .how close was the actually tone .95%??

My ex wife had a sag parameter on her boobs. It only worked one way though. Applied more.

How did it change the feel?

 

[ejecta]

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

Ejecta and I profiled my amp over the weekend. The profiled amp was tighter than the reference amp. It may be possible to dial in parameters after the fact to get some of that sag back in there, but the base profile lacked the squishiness of the reference amp.

Granted this was his (and my) first attempt at profiling, so there might could have been something else to have done to capture it more accurately. I wouldn't discount user error.

There is a sag parameter in Kemper ..

Outside of the feel difference .how close was the actually tone .95%??

My ex wife had a sag parameter on her boobs. It only worked one way though. Applied more.

Best post of the thread! Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Rogue]

There is a sag parameter in Kemper ..

Outside of the feel difference .how close was the actually tone .95%??

Tone was very close, but not exact. Kemper seemed to add some highs. We compared recorded clips of Kemper and miced amp. The miced amp tended to sound a little more organic. But for recording without pissing the family off, the Kemper is a great device. I can't really give a percent, but close enough. You have to really be splitting hairs. It did feel different though.

I was most impressed with how well it matched the ability of my amp to clean up with the volume knob or pick attack. I have no idea how they are able to profile that aspect.

 

[ejecta]

Regarding the Kemper, wouldn't that be completely dependent on the amp modeled, and how well it was modeled? You get out of it what you put into it? Or does it alter the modeled amps in some way so that they always come out less "squishy and saturated"?

Ejecta and I profiled my amp over the weekend. The profiled amp was tighter than the reference amp. It may be possible to dial in parameters after the fact to get some of that sag back in there, but the base profile lacked the squishiness of the reference amp.

Granted this was his (and my) first attempt at profiling, so there might could have been something else to have done to capture it more accurately. I wouldn't discount user error.

Did you guys refine it afterwards with some chords? You can also refine a few times and get closer each time. I'd probably add some 'sag' on the amp settings, possibly compression from there also.

Yeah we did the refinement thing several times, it did help it get even closer each time which helped some with the feel and got the tone even closer but never dead on.

Wagner says he can get it dead on. I'd like to know his process.

So yeah the feel wasn't exactly the same as far as the bottom end goes especially on the one we profiled of the plexi at full bore. We got a tighter feel wit the Kemper than the actual amp. Most plexi's I've played and Rogue's isn't really any different the bottom end gets really round when at full bore. Some may call that "sag".... I'm not sure I do but do see where someone can. "Sag" to me is more like what you get with high gain.... that squishy compressed feel not round bottom end since those tones can still feel tight. Like I said I have no problem getting compressed squish with the Kemper on higher gain profiles.

I will second what Rogue said in that this was the first time I've tired profiling and I'm by no means experienced in any real meaningful way when it comes to micing cabs etc.... so yeah definitely don't discount user error.

 

[Rogue]

Did you guys refine it afterwards with some chords? You can also refine a few times and get closer each time. I'd probably add some 'sag' on the amp settings, possibly compression from there also.

Yeah, we did several different attempts at refinement until we felt that was as close as it was going to get. I'm sure the refinement procedure is an art in itself.

I don't think we messed with the sag parameter, but I would think that should help. There were other parameters that helped bring down some of the extra highs the Kemper added, though.

 

[ejecta]

Did you guys refine it afterwards with some chords? You can also refine a few times and get closer each time. I'd probably add some 'sag' on the amp settings, possibly compression from there also.

Yeah, we did several different attempts at refinement until we felt that was as close as it was going to get. I'm sure the refinement procedure is an art in itself.

I don't think we messed with the sag parameter, but I would think that should help. There were other parameters that helped bring down some of the extra highs the Kemper added, though.

You know I think some of those highs and what I was calling "plinky sound" may have been partially due to the speaker since it weren't there with the Weber. And also when I went to other profiles of plexi's it wasn't there as well. We should have probably played more with mic placement on the Celestion.