OK, So What Is So Special About Old Plexis?

[SavageRiffer]

I mean no sarcasm by this at all, and know very little about vintage Marshalls, etc., so I ask this earnestly. Here's the deal, I've heard people rave about 68' plexis, 70's plexis, 1980's JCM2204, etc... To hear people rave so much and be so adamant that they're the best thing since sliced bread reall piqued my interest so I plugged into a few. Not many, but a few here and there. Now, I've never had the chance to put one all on 10 except for a 1959 handwired and a 1987x that I used to own, but I've been around tube amps long enough to know how much volume to pump for a decent tone.

Anyway, in all honesty this is what happened... I plugged in and yes, I did feel electrified, but I felt the same way when I plugged into a dimed 2061x, JCM800 reissue, 2555x reissue, etc. There wasn't anything necessarily that I could perceive tonally or in feel that really stood out. If anything, I always thought the JCM800 2203 RI's from early 2000's and on were better than the old ones. To me, the old JCM800s had a more dull pick attack and sounded kind of shitty at lower volume. Honestly, I always just chalked it up to a softness gained by aged components and well-worn speakers.

Same thing with Hiwatts. I fuckin' love Hiwatt amps, but no vintage Hiwatt ever sounded better than a new one to me. Unless you LITERALLY have to dime the amp to get the magic, then I never was able to find the magic that made me seek out a vintage Marshall over a new one. However, I know there are guys on these forums with outstanding ears for tone. Maybe I just can't hear what they hear. Maybe they're just stuck on stuff from the past and can't be persuaded one way or another. I don't know, but I'd like to hear from the ardent loyalists exactly what makes the vintage Marshalls superior or if it's just kind of an old school loyalty thing or something. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[cardinal]

Components changed over time (mustard caps) and I think plate voltages increased over time. Of course tubes seem to have changed. Speakers make a huge difference, and those have changed a lot. But really I think they all just sound a bit different.

I have an '83 2204 and love it. I've played a '90 2204 and it had a bit more preamp gain than mine.

 

[SavageRiffer]

Components changed over time (mustard caps) and I think plate voltages increased over time. Of course tubes seem to have changed. Speakers make a huge difference, and those have changed a lot. But really I think they all just sound a bit different.

I have an '83 2204 and love it. I've played a '90 2204 and it had a bit more preamp gain than mine.

Yeah, that's another thing. There seem to be so many inconsistencies in the old components, so how can you tell which is which without being a vintage amp expert? One thing I know from my own experience, is changing a single cap, transformer, chip, etc. can have substantial effect, so I can understand that being a factor. Still, that leads me to question, how long can those old components last? I've heard guys in love with their vintage amps, but they're always spending money on leaking caps, period-correct NOS tubes, etc... Sounds like a money pit to me. Is the difference really so significant that it's all worth it, or is it just kind of a thing some people get addicted to?

 

[SpiderWars]

I was going to mention the variability in the old ones. I think there is at least a little bit of Les Paul-itus going on. That is..."I got one of the good ones" when really not so much.

 

[cardinal]

Components changed over time (mustard caps) and I think plate voltages increased over time. Of course tubes seem to have changed. Speakers make a huge difference, and those have changed a lot. But really I think they all just sound a bit different.

I have an '83 2204 and love it. I've played a '90 2204 and it had a bit more preamp gain than mine.

Yeah, that's another thing. There seem to be so many inconsistencies in the old components, so how can you tell which is which without being a vintage amp expert? One thing I know from my own experience, is changing a single cap, transformer, chip, etc. can have substantial effect, so I can understand that being a factor. Still, that leads me to question, how long can those old components last? I've heard guys in love with their vintage amps, but they're always spending money on leaking caps, period-correct NOS tubes, etc... Sounds like a money pit to me. Is the difference really so significant that it's all worth it, or is it just kind of a thing some people get addicted to?

It's all a money pit. The tone I like, I can grab almost any decent guitar off the wall in GC and plug into a DSL or 5150 and get something that sounds great. But if you want to nail something specific or to have a piece of "history," you've got to go hunting and pay up when you find it.

 

[Badronald]

Shhhh. Keep it down man.

 

[Rick Lee]

I jumped on the Plexi train a few years ago when I built a '69 100w clone. They don't have much gain, but they really have an ooomph about them that other amps just don't have. Add your favorite boost or OD pedal and you can find yourself wondering where the hours went between picking up your guitar and noticing it got dark outside. I most recently built a '68 12000 Metro clone and two weeks ago bought a '79 2203. Oh, and I grabbed a 1987x project chassis on eBay a few days ago too. It's a disease and there's no cure, especially since they all look alike to the wife.

 

[SavageRiffer]

There are a ton of videos and audio on the web, but so many Marshalls, so many boutiques, and they all sound damned good. Is there a perceptible difference in a good quality recording? Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of the people doing comparisons don't plug the newer versions into the same vintage cab they have the old version plugged into. Anyone know if a real professional example of old v. new Marshall?

 

[skoora]

I'm glad when people don't find anything special about them...leaves me with a chance of scoring one. Last chance I got to fire up a 69 at volume was fucking religious. Anyone who thinks you can get close with any Master volume Marshall, especially what they make now...well...that's cool...more old, worn out stuff for me! C'mon it's old! It's too loud. I'll take it and give it s good home. You can rock that Vietnamese DSL, it sounds killer Bro!

 

[Racerxrated]

Like most or even all of you, I've had a shit ton of amps. Mostly Marshalls/modded Marshalls. And after all the vintage and reissue Marshalls I've had here, I can say that my version of the truth on this rests solely on the vintage Drakes/Dagnalls. Whether it's from aging or the way they made them then compared to now, IMO once you get ANY vintage Marshall up to a roaring volume the newer ones just fall short in THAT tone. Not by a lot, but still fall short.
Case in point..Jubilees are my favorite Marshall, with a boost. They've chased even the Camerons away.
I had a 2555x and then scored a 1990 black tolex 2555. The reissue is spot on, and killer...but when I compared them at 5-7 on the master the vintage 2555 just sounded better. Not a ton, but better nonetheless. And I've had reissue 2203s, 1959s, 1987s, etc.

 

[Racerxrated]

I've only had the pleasure of one real plexi, not mine but a friends beautiful 67 SLP. Just an unreal sweet natural distortion when you get volume to it. I can understand why guys covet them. They are special.

 

[SavageRiffer]

I'm glad when people don't find anything special about them...leaves me with a chance of scoring one. Last chance I got to fire up a 69 at volume was fucking religious. Anyone who thinks you can get close with any Master volume Marshall, especially what they make now...well...that's cool...more old, worn out stuff for me! C'mon it's old! It's too loud. I'll take it and give it s good home. You can rock that Vietnamese DSL, it sounds killer Bro!

Come on man, I didn't say that I didn't find anything special about them. I said I find something special about all of them. I just haven't heard the difference or been stricken by any particular nuance the vintage Marshalls I've tried have to offer. Maybe the ones I tried didn't have the mojo. I don't know, so that's why I'm asking. I'm not naysaying or trying to say it's all bullshit, I just want to know from the guys who are into that kind of thing.

Like most or even all of you, I've had a shit ton of amps. Mostly Marshalls/modded Marshalls. And after all the vintage and reissue Marshalls I've had here, I can say that my version of the truth on this rests solely on the vintage Drakes/Dagnalls. Whether it's from aging or the way they made them then compared to now, IMO once you get ANY vintage Marshall up to a roaring volume the newer ones just fall short in THAT tone. Not by a lot, but still fall short.
Case in point..Jubilees are my favorite Marshall, with a boost. They've chased even the Camerons away.
I had a 2555x and then scored a 1990 black tolex 2555. The reissue is spot on, and killer...but when I compared them at 5-7 on the master the vintage 2555 just sounded better. Not a ton, but better nonetheless. And I've had reissue 2203s, 1959s, 1987s, etc.

Ah yes the 2555x compared to the old Jubilee is a bit different. I don't know about the volume thing because I never got my 2555x that loud. At 2 it's pretty damned loud. It was bit dark and rubbery at very low volume, but really opened up nicely. I saw a video which I think does a good job of showing the difference. Have you seen this one?

 

[copilot]

I use Strats. Since around 1972. There is a certain thing an old Marshall did w/ a Strat I really don't hear w/ modern clones, and i've owned many. It's a clean/ dirty sound like Jimi's live Little Wing for instance. It sustains and it's harmonically rich.

The best I ever played thru was in 1972. I plugged a Strat straight in to a '68 Smallbox 50 watt and 4x12.
The best I owned was an early 70's Super Tremolo. it had 4 speaker-out jacks, which I'd never seen before. An early 70's 100 watt Super Tremolo was Uli's favorite amp. Awesome pedal platform. My 70's rig-

 

[Rick Lee]

I use Strats.

Your avatar doesn't support that statement.

 

[Racerxrated]

I'm glad when people don't find anything special about them...leaves me with a chance of scoring one. Last chance I got to fire up a 69 at volume was fucking religious. Anyone who thinks you can get close with any Master volume Marshall, especially what they make now...well...that's cool...more old, worn out stuff for me! C'mon it's old! It's too loud. I'll take it and give it s good home. You can rock that Vietnamese DSL, it sounds killer Bro!

Come on man, I didn't say that I didn't find anything special about them. I said I find something special about all of them. I just haven't heard the difference or been stricken by any particular nuance the vintage Marshalls I've tried have to offer. Maybe the ones I tried didn't have the mojo. I don't know, so that's why I'm asking. I'm not naysaying or trying to say it's all bullshit, I just want to know from the guys who are into that kind of thing.

Like most or even all of you, I've had a shit ton of amps. Mostly Marshalls/modded Marshalls. And after all the vintage and reissue Marshalls I've had here, I can say that my version of the truth on this rests solely on the vintage Drakes/Dagnalls. Whether it's from aging or the way they made them then compared to now, IMO once you get ANY vintage Marshall up to a roaring volume the newer ones just fall short in THAT tone. Not by a lot, but still fall short.
Case in point..Jubilees are my favorite Marshall, with a boost. They've chased even the Camerons away.
I had a 2555x and then scored a 1990 black tolex 2555. The reissue is spot on, and killer...but when I compared them at 5-7 on the master the vintage 2555 just sounded better. Not a ton, but better nonetheless. And I've had reissue 2203s, 1959s, 1987s, etc.

Ah yes the 2555x compared to the old Jubilee is a bit different. I don't know about the volume thing because I never got my 2555x that loud. At 2 it's pretty damned loud. It was bit dark and rubbery at very low volume, but really opened up nicely. I saw a video which I think does a good job of showing the difference. Have you seen this one?

Oh yeah, I saw that one. Good comparison, and the 2555x is a great amp on its own, probably the best bang for the buck amp new or used to come out in the last few years. And unless you are gigging out and can open them up, the differences between vintage and reissue is pretty small.
But, like many here I get nitpicky about ANY difference, and I do have a blast cranking my amps when I can...and the vintage iron in Marshalls IMO set themselves apart from the reissues. I've had waay too many vintage and reissue Marshalls to count, and I really do believe the vintage Iron superiority.

 

[vchizzle]

I use Strats. Since around 1972. There is a certain thing an old Marshall did w/ a Strat I really don't hear w/ modern clones, and i've owned many. It's a clean/ dirty sound like Jimi's live Little Wing for instance. It sustains and it's harmonically rich.

The best I ever played thru was in 1972. I plugged a Strat straight in to a '68 Smallbox 50 watt and 4x12.
The best I owned was an early 70's Super Tremolo. it had 4 speaker-out jacks, which I'd never seen before. An early 70's 100 watt Super Tremolo was Uli's favorite amp. Awesome pedal platform. My 70's rig-

Despite not being a "Marshall guy", those amps rip at high volume. I only got to crank the one I had once. Had to be loud, but the sheer raw power was insane. That's why I let it go. Had a plexi reissue once, but it didn't really have the same juice. My Friedman naked had that beastly nature at crushing volume too. Once I heard it like that, I could never settle for playing it at less than that. It sounded decent quiet, but the kick in the chest gloriousness wasn't there so had to let that go too.

 

[SavageRiffer]

OK, so based on what I've heard so far, next question then is what clones or boutique models have a similar magic to the vintage Marshalls?

 

[FourT6and2]

Like most or even all of you, I've had a shit ton of amps. Mostly Marshalls/modded Marshalls. And after all the vintage and reissue Marshalls I've had here, I can say that my version of the truth on this rests solely on the vintage Drakes/Dagnalls. Whether it's from aging or the way they made them then compared to now, IMO once you get ANY vintage Marshall up to a roaring volume the newer ones just fall short in THAT tone. Not by a lot, but still fall short.
Case in point..Jubilees are my favorite Marshall, with a boost. They've chased even the Camerons away.
I had a 2555x and then scored a 1990 black tolex 2555. The reissue is spot on, and killer...but when I compared them at 5-7 on the master the vintage 2555 just sounded better. Not a ton, but better nonetheless. And I've had reissue 2203s, 1959s, 1987s, etc.

I've always wanted to try a Silver Jubilee. But haven't come across one before.

 

[FourT6and2]

OK, so based on what I've heard so far, next question then is what clones or boutique models have a similar magic to the vintage Marshalls?

Don't laugh, but I played an old, dusty Mig 50 with matching 1x12 cab in a guitar shop in Detroit one time. It had scratchy pots and broken knobs and made all sorts of noise. But holy shit man... the "tone" that came out of that thing gave me literal goosebumps. I can count on one hand the number of times I've plugged into an amp and been dumbfounded by its "mojo." That was one of them. I'd have to look at a schematic, but I think the original Mig 50s share some DNA with the JMP/JCM800.

 

[copilot]

I use Strats.

Your avatar doesn't support that statement.

Is there a rule that your avatar should reflect the guitars you play? asshole