Okay...Mesa vs. Mesa

[lespaul3013]

Roadster vs. Mark V

Playing: Church music (contemporary/modern Christian, John Petrucci, RHCP, AiC, Collective Soul, and a little jazz here and there)...yes, I play random stuff.

Want: A huge rhythm sound, and a nice lead sound that slices right through the mix. I know both amps have great cleans so I'm not concerned about that.

Concerns: I've heard that the Roadster is "finniky" and is difficult to set up, and not as good of an amp for leads (although it supposedly has some nice rhythm sounds)...and I've read that the Mark is super super tight, has an awesome lead sound, but is a little sterile and unnatural.

This will be my last post before I go try these bad boys out...thats gonna be the real test. I just want to get as much feedback as possible before I try them out so I can know what to expect.

 

[MississippiMetal]

I have a question. And not just for you, for anyone else who uses this to describe an amp.

Of two amps with comparable gain levels, what exactly makes an amp more suitable for "leads" than another amp?

 

[lespaul3013]

I have a question. And not just for you, for anyone else who uses this to describe an amp.

Of two amps with comparable gain levels, what exactly makes an amp more suitable for "leads" than another amp?

Probably not the best one to answer, but I know that the Roadster (and all of the Recto series for that matter) are a lot more saggy/loose in nature as opposed to the Mark V being very tight. Also, I think the Recto series has a different gain structure than the Mark V. So in nature, the Mark V is probably going to have the better lead tone because of the GEQ, and its ability to slice right through the mix without needed a boost or an OD. Thats just kinda what I've gathered. I could be wrong.

 

[mboogman]

I have a question. And not just for you, for anyone else who uses this to describe an amp.

Of two amps with comparable gain levels, what exactly makes an amp more suitable for "leads" than another amp?

It has to do with the character of the midrange. For me, a slightly more pronounced midrange that stays focused, but doesn't get honky makes for a great lead sound.

So for the OP, I'd say the Mark is more geared to what you're looking for. I've played the roadster and liked it, but it just wasn't "it" for me.

 

[MississippiMetal]

I don't suppose it would depend on what kind of "lead" the person is playing.

Some people claim the 5150 isn't great for leads. I have to hop in my roflcopter and shoot wtfmissles at that statement.

 

[kasperjensen]

I think for what you want, the Mark V is the better choice.

 

[Gooseman]

Well having been a Mesa user for awhile now, I can tell you that the Mark Vs have a different plate voltage than the Rectos, which aids in its different feel. Marks are also voiced higher than the Rectos. With a Mark amp, everything is very immediate, and your notes for lead work are very liquid in feel. The Roadster in particular can get a great lead tone, but it'll feel different than the Mark Vs liquid lead feel. It is all about playing the amps and seeing which one you like better. I notice this is the second time you are asking people about their opinions on the Mesas. We can only give you so much advice as to which one to get. They are both definitely going to sound and feel different. For rhythm, the Roadster may feel a bit more aggressive due to its massive gain structures and low-end. The Marks well feel tighter and crunch differently than the Rectos. Personally, I really feel that this decision can be best solved by plugging into each amp, with your guitar mind you, and rockin' away.

Print off some of the sample settings Mesa has in their manuals for the Roadster and use that as a guide. The Mark should have some settings listed on the top of the amp. When you play these, don't be bashful - turn up the volume! Get the volume to just past the point where you are being LOUD and in effect the center of attention. It may be uncomfortable, but it's the only way to get a feel of these high wattage amps. Sure, the Mark has a 10 watt mode, but you aren't buying this amp because of that mode. If you want low watts, look into the 65amps Lil' Elvis, Orange Dual Terror, or the Vox Night Train. I am not a fan of Mesa's Transatlantics, so I can't really suggest those to you. If volume is your concern, you may want to rethink buying such a high wattage head. You may never fully utilize an amp of this magnitude. In which case, I would absolutely suggest the 65amps Tupelo or Lil' Elvis, both amazing heads with boost and tremelo features.

No matter how many different ways you ask the question, you aren't going to find out much more about these amps. If anything, you could end up getting information that will further confuse you. In the end, the Mark and Roadster are good amps. There is a reason Petrucci tours with the Mark Vs, and did tour with the Road Kings (Roadster's big brother). The Roadster will get you the Petrucci sound in that Petrucci never even used the EL34s on the Road King - he was all 6L6s. This has been documented in Petrucci's settings he gave out at a clinic. Foo Fighters also use the Road Kings. Clearly, these are good live amps - reliable and flexible enough to meet a musician's live needs. Tim Reynolds of the Dave Matthews Band also uses the Dual Rectifier 3-channels. He doesn't play high gain, but attests to their great sound at lower volumes. Don't get the lower volumes thing wrong though - he isn't meaning quiet playing. Tim is just comparing his Mesa to his Marshall - in which case, the Marshall must be cranked to achieve a good tube sound. Mesa's, while employing complex preamp gain sections, still need volume behind them.

Good luck.

 

[Gooseman]

The lead tone thing used to be an issue with the Dual Rectifiers. With the Roadsters, the lead issue is nonexistent. The Mark V will still employ the classic liquid lead feel and tone of older Mark series amps. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you need to PLAY the amps. Then you'll know exactly what I'm jiving at. The Dual Rectos lead tone was never that great and would sort of crap out on single note passages that required sustain. With the Marks, you'll get tightness, sustain, and note clarity for days. I can get the same with the Roadsters, but it feels different than the Marks immediate feel.

 

[Gooseman]

I have a question. And not just for you, for anyone else who uses this to describe an amp.

Of two amps with comparable gain levels, what exactly makes an amp more suitable for "leads" than another amp?

Probably not the best one to answer, but I know that the Roadster (and all of the Recto series for that matter) are a lot more saggy/loose in nature as opposed to the Mark V being very tight. Also, I think the Recto series has a different gain structure than the Mark V. So in nature, the Mark V is probably going to have the better lead tone because of the GEQ, and its ability to slice right through the mix without needed a boost or an OD. Thats just kinda what I've gathered. I could be wrong.

It has nothing to do with the EQ. It is the makeup of the amp itself. It has a higher plate voltage, which means the amp is tighter and feels more immediate under your finger tips. The Rectifiers, even by their name RECTIFIER, implies a more saggy amp. I don't think you really get it because you are basing too much on what you read versus know from playing. Forget the words saggy and tight. Play the amps and play them loud! Learn about amps by playing them. Amps with tube rectification are naturally a bit saggier. The Rectos take this to a whole other level. They aren't as defined, but that doesn't mean a negative. It just depends on what you like. With globs of high gain, I prefer the Roadster's Recto vibe because of how it distorts during rhythm passages.

Again, make the time to play these amps loud! With YOUR guitar! Feel how each amp reacts with proper settings dialed in. You are getting advice on here that is of very little usage. Think about it. You've solicited getting advice from people that is basic at best. One guy, who is totally just in giving his opinion, claimed that he didn't like the Roadster because it didn't have "it." Yet, there is no follow up on what exactly he/she meant. This is why I wrote that you are more likely to confuse yourself with too much pointless inquiry as to what everyone else likes. We are all ideologues and some of us impart opinions on threads we don't have pertinent knowledge on. Screw what everyone else likes and dislikes. The best advice I can give you is to PLAY THE AMP. If you have questions, call Mesa. They are helpful people there! You'll get people on here, like myself (that's actually owns the Roadster and has spent tons of time on the Marks) who are actually trying to give good advice, while some people may just be passing the time and having fun. In the end though, I like what I like. It is what works for me and the music I play. If I preferred the Mark, I'd have a Mark, plain and simple. I love the Mark V and think it's an amazing amp, but it just doesn't give me anything I can't get from my Roadster, my Marshall, and my Bassman.

Good luck dude.

 

[blackba]

Based on my experience with my mesa mark IVA, I would go with the mark V. Surprised a mark IV is not on your list to check out, as they are a good deal used. I haven't used my mark IVA at church, but I do use it to practice the music and it works/sounds great for that. I have long thought that the mark IV or mark V would be an ideal amp for my Church.

As far as Gooseman's recommendations about small amps, he makes some great points. There are just some key problems that I have with small amps, even though I would like to pick up a nice grab and go Marshall Class 5, or Vox AC15 handwired. Anyway, here are some things about small amps that I have found.
1. I have yet to see a low wattage amp with the features of a roadster or mark V
2. The small amps typically don't have the punch, bass response, and clean headroom of a larger amp
3. I found when I had a '66 Fender Champ (about 6Watts) that I didn't practice any softer than I did with my larger amps. The volume was easier to control and I could get the amp more in the sweet spot and get natural breakup if I wanted. So if the goal was to play softer with the Champ, for me that didn't help. I just found when it came time to choose an amp to play through, I bypassed the Champ for my larger amps.

Even if you can't get a larger amp up to sounds its best, I still think they are worth having. I don't buy into that I am not using my mark IVA completely by running it into tweed mode. If I get the sounds I want, than who cares if I am using all the power that is available to the amp. Some people buy a multichannel amp and just use one channel, if that works for them, then who cares if they are not using the other channels.

 

[Gooseman]

Roadster vs. Mark V

Playing: Church music (contemporary/modern Christian, John Petrucci, RHCP, AiC, Collective Soul, and a little jazz here and there)...yes, I play random stuff.

Want: A huge rhythm sound, and a nice lead sound that slices right through the mix. I know both amps have great cleans so I'm not concerned about that.

Concerns: I've heard that the Roadster is "finniky" and is difficult to set up, and not as good of an amp for leads (although it supposedly has some nice rhythm sounds)...and I've read that the Mark is super super tight, has an awesome lead sound, but is a little sterile and unnatural.

This will be my last post before I go try these bad boys out...thats gonna be the real test. I just want to get as much feedback as possible before I try them out so I can know what to expect.

Again, you've read stuff that has really skewed reality. The Roadsters are not finnicky. How is it possible that I've owned the amp for two years and never found this to be the case. Finnicky is the last word I'd use to describe my experiences with Mesa or the Roadster. I would easily say its been reliable, flexible, and heavy (it is very weighty). Not a good amp for leads? Bullhonky. Again, while I am terrible at the art of recording, I can guide you to these examples of the Roadster's natural lead tone (unboosted

And you read the Marks can be a little sterile and unnatural? What does that mean? I've never played the Mark V and felt this way. I owned a Mark IV and never felt this way. This can be true if you dial into the amp incorrectly or don't play the amp loud enough. So many people who have dissenting opinions of Mesa often don't know how to dial into their amps correctly, or buy a Mesa and wonder why it sounds terrible at mainly bedroom levels. Dave Grohl and Petrucci don't use Mesa live to look cool. They use them because they are reliable and they sound good! Tim Reynolds even states in a YouTube video that he doesn't use his Mesa's at home as they are too loud! Then he goes off about the Vox AC4.

I don't think you should base which amp to buy off of bad advice telling you that the Mesa Roadster is "finicky and has a bad lead tone," or the notion that the Mark V is "sterile sounding." Sterile sounding?! Seriously, compared to what? A real Fender Tweed amp? A Marshall? It's all Apples v. Oranges. If you aren't gigging and playing loud rock music, a Mesa is probably going to be overkill.

 

[Gooseman]

Based on my experience with my mesa mark IVA, I would go with the mark V. Surprised a mark IV is not on your list to check out, as they are a good deal used. I haven't used my mark IVA at church, but I do use it to practice the music and it works/sounds great for that. I have long thought that the mark IV or mark V would be an ideal amp for my Church.

As far as Gooseman's recommendations about small amps, he makes some great points. There are just some key problems that I have with small amps, even though I would like to pick up a nice grab and go Marshall Class 5, or Vox AC15 handwired. Anyway, here are some things about small amps that I have found.
1. I have yet to see a low wattage amp with the features of a roadster or mark V
2. The small amps typically don't have the punch, bass response, and clean headroom of a larger amp
3. I found when I had a '66 Fender Champ (about 6Watts) that I didn't practice any softer than I did with my larger amps. The volume was easier to control and I could get the amp more in the sweet spot and get natural breakup if I wanted. So if the goal was to play softer with the Champ, for me that didn't help. I just found when it came time to choose an amp to play through, I bypassed the Champ for my larger amps.

Even if you can't get a larger amp up to sounds its best, I still think they are worth having. I don't buy into that I am not using my mark IVA completely by running it into tweed mode. If I get the sounds I want, than who cares if I am using all the power that is available to the amp. Some people buy a multichannel amp and just use one channel, if that works for them, then who cares if they are not using the other channels.

All true points that will help you.

I will say though that the 65 amps Lil' Elvis (12 watts) and Tupelo (18 watts) have master volumes and sound pretty awesome clean. They also have a footswichable boost feature, tremelo, and effects loops. You'll just have to get creative by using a volume pedal or rolling the volume back on you guitar to achieve clean tones. Or boost the whole amp with a pedal. I just want to help you not make a stupid decision with you money. Mesa's are great amps but can be a bit much if not employed correctly.

Remember, that with more watts is headroom and feel. Also remember that a 10 watts amp is half as loud as a 100 watt amp, while a 5 watt amp is half as loud as a 50 watt amp in total volume.

 

[JakeAC5253]

I didn't like the Roadster/Road King amps at all. I just wasn't able to dial in a tight rhythm sound with them. Whenever I chunk chords it just comes out as "fluff fluff fluff...." and I use thick strings and have a heavy pick hand, the amp wasn't able to translate this, the intensity seemed lost to the amp. I preferred the 2010 Recto to either of the Roadster/Road King amps. I very much enjoyed the times that I have used a Mark V. It's got a sound that no other amp can touch, but it's not for everybody.

 

[some dude]

I have a question. And not just for you, for anyone else who uses this to describe an amp.

Of two amps with comparable gain levels, what exactly makes an amp more suitable for "leads" than another amp?

The older Recto's were less compressed and had a more open grain to the distortion. They sounded massive while maintaining reasonable clarity for the style of distortion and were great for rhythm, but they sounded kind of thin and lacked power/presence when playing leads.

Some people claim the 5150 isn't great for leads. I have to hop in my roflcopter and shoot wtfmissles at that statement.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[MississippiMetal]

Yeah don't bank on being heard very well with one of these trendy lunchbox amps. Those are generally for people wanking over power tube breakup in their garage, or playing a quiet restaurant gig. I used a 15 Watt PA head and cab converted into a guitar amp as a loaner for a gig a while back, and even dimed it got lost in the mix. Why? Because A: 15 watts just isn't that loud. Anyone who says it's loud should turn their hearing aid down, and B:, at full power tube saturation, the tone "mushes out", and the ability to cut through a mix is drastically reduced, no matter how sweet it sounds when you're playing by yourself.

 

[some dude]

I didn't like the Roadster/Road King amps at all. I just wasn't able to dial in a tight rhythm sound with them. Whenever I chunk chords it just comes out as "fluff fluff fluff...." and I use thick strings and have a heavy pick hand, the amp wasn't able to translate this, the intensity seemed lost to the amp.

I think it's the stock JJ's preamp tubes. They put a blanket on every amp I've used them in. Putting a TungSol in V1 really opened the amp up and tightened up the response... it really surprised me as to how big an improvement changing a single preamp tube made as I wasn't expecting that big a change.

 

[JakeAC5253]

I didn't like the Roadster/Road King amps at all. I just wasn't able to dial in a tight rhythm sound with them. Whenever I chunk chords it just comes out as "fluff fluff fluff...." and I use thick strings and have a heavy pick hand, the amp wasn't able to translate this, the intensity seemed lost to the amp.

I think it's the stock JJ's preamp tubes. They put a blanket on every amp I've used them in. Putting a TungSol in V1 really opened the amp up and tightened up the response... it really surprised me as to how big an improvement changing a single preamp tube made as I wasn't expecting that big a change.

That sounds plausible. I ran a Tung Sol in V1 of my Rec and liked it. It wasn't a huge improvement, like a new amp, but it was enough to prefer it.

 

[MississippiMetal]

The input tube and the phase inverter are the preamp tubes I roll. Everything in between I stick any reliable tube in and call it good, as in most modern amps the tone could care less what's between the input position and the PI.

 

[dfrattaroli]

I think you really need to play both amps in a place where you can crank them a bit. Any amp sounds different at high volume than it does at bedroom levels. Still, bedroom levels are important if you play at that level very often. We all want to be inspired when we turn on our amps.

I've had a ton of Mesas. I had a Road King II and had to sell it eventually when I realized, that in my hands, I could never get a tight chunky tone from it. I'm back to a Mark IV. The third one I've ever owned and the Mesa I've had the longest. Going on 2 years. I like the Mark V but I prefer the Mark IV's Lead channel over channel 3 on the V and that's the main reason I've stuck with the IV.

I use an OD in front of R2 and get a sound that's got enough gain to solo with. In fact, there are times that I have to look and see what channel I'm on because they're pretty close. I'm going to add an EQ pedal to the loop to use with the cleans just to roll off some of the bottom. Depending on the year and condition, you can get a Mark IV in the $1000 to $1500 range. I know you've had one but I figure I'd mention it as it compares to the V. I'm not sure there's much the V can do that the IV can't. Unless you really want to be able to set each channel at different power settings.

 

[SFW]

I think it boils dow to which Mesa tone you like better. I like the Recto, but I love the Mark sound. I never had a problem getting my Mark IV to sound huge in the mix. It's all in how you dial it in. I haven't had the chance to play a Mark V yet- mainly because I don't need the GAS right now- but I can't imagine that it would sound too much different. Go play both amps, and buy the one you like best.

And for the record, I never found it hard to solo on a Recto. If you need it tighter, then step on your trusty TS-9.