Peavey 5150 Harsh High End?

[RuxinCaldwell]

I'm sure there are many threads about this across the internet, but I was looking to get some direct answers or information to my particular issue. So I recently went from a Framus Cobra to a Peavey 5150 mk1. My ears were getting exhausted to the overall dry voicing and honky midrange of the Cobra, along with the huge pain in the ass it's been with reliability. I can tell that the 5150 has a voicing that suits me, as I've always gone for a tighter, more mid-range based sound (A Rectifier being the opposite sound I'm after, I hate fizzy scooped tones). However, no matter what I have my treble/presence set to, there is always a harsh, high end sizzle that's really hindering me from achieving my ideal tone.

My gear is:

Peavey 5150
Mesa Traditional 4x12
Boss NS-2
Maxon OD808

Guitars are ESP/LTD guitars with EMG 81's in the bridge.

Could anyone steer me in a direction of killing this harsh high end? I have already done the bias mod to the amp, all though there is improvement, the harsh high end is still there. The tubes in it aren't the best, but I planned on a re-tube once I sold my Cobra. I also found tube swapping to be a very minor difference in tone.

Tone chasing is exhausting

 

[hellaboogie]

try an EQ in the loop

 

[Rushtallica]

Try turning off the overdrive pedal and raising the amp gain just a bit if necessary.

If that doesn't work, the next step I'd take is trying guitars without 81's in the bridge, or if you have an 85 in the neck try swapping to the bridge. The 81 can be fairly trebly pickups IMO -- good for helping tightness, though.

Another thing would be to try through a different cab/speakers. I like V30's, but some people find them harsh-sounding, though I hear the Mesa versions are supposed to be better about avoiding that.

 

[Dimebag11]

swap 2 of those V30s out for K100s, change the power tubes to Sovtek 5881WXT's and ENJOY!

 

[Anonymous]

The OD808 will add a bit of high mids, try turning down the tone knob on the pedal a bit.

Also, try some darker preamp tubes in the gain stages (JJ perhaps ?)

 

[K-mark5]

I've had the same exact gear a coule of years back except i ran an emg85 in the bridge of my caparison (B tuning).. and i remember having a great sound without fizz.. (KSE kinda)

my settings were:

lead gain: 2-3 (not o'clock) with the TS808 engaged (level max, no drive, tone in the middle)
bass: 4
mids: 6
treble: 5

resonance: 6-7
presence: 2-3

volume: 3 (sometimes 4)

my preamp tubes were:
tung sol in V1, the rest JJ ( if i went with all tung sols i got a nasty trebly harsh sound)
SED=C= 6L6 in poweramp

 

[RuxinCaldwell]

The OD808 will add a bit of high mids, try turning down the tone knob on the pedal a bit.

Also, try some darker preamp tubes in the gain stages (JJ perhaps ?)

Try turning off the overdrive pedal and raising the amp gain just a bit if necessary.

If that doesn't work, the next step I'd take is trying guitars without 81's in the bridge, or if you have an 85 in the neck try swapping to the bridge. The 81 can be fairly trebly pickups IMO -- good for helping tightness, though.

Another thing would be to try through a different cab/speakers. I like V30's, but some people find them harsh-sounding, though I hear the Mesa versions are supposed to be better about avoiding that.

I prefer the tonal characteristics of the overdrive. I use it to tighten my tone so I can lower the gain on the amp for clarity. I used to run an EMG 85 in my bridge when I was all in to Killswitch Engage, but since then, I play more leads and single note based riffs rather than just chugging all the time. All though I own all EMG guitars, I still haven't tried a lot of other pickups for metal. Every time I would play a passive pickup guitar, I always felt that it lacked the bite and tightness of an 81. They almost sounded dry compared to actives to my ears. Maybe I haven't tried the right ones?

As for the speakers, nearly all the tones I've creamed over across the years have been Mesa cabs with V30 speakers, so I assumed that was the cab I needed to buy. I've played a cab with greenbacks and could tell it wasn't my thing, haven't tried any others though.

Right now all I can think could be the culprit is: tone knob on the OD808, EMG 81 pickups, or the amp itself, which if that's the case, an EQ pedal in the loop could very well be an option.

 

[RuxinCaldwell]

swap 2 of those V30s out for K100s, change the power tubes to Sovtek 5881WXT's and ENJOY!

What is the difference in tone and voicing in those speakers compared to the V30's, as for those power tubes, how would those you listed differ from JJ's or Ruby power tubes?

 

[mchn13]

The 81 is probably your culprit. That amp is known for sizzle, and the 81 too. Together, you either embrace the fry or swap one of them. I liked the duncan blackout with that amp better, and better still was the duncan distortion. A real hot passive would give you a more textured high end and not as grating.

 

[Dimebag11]

K100's are fatter and flatter. Big, Deep low end....and smooth top end with subdued mids. They balance the V30's out nicely. As far as the power tubes I've just found they are bigger and tighter sounding than other tubes....I also find them to be more aggressive (more of a EL34 on 'roids type)

 

[Anonymous]

swap 2 of those V30s out for K100s, change the power tubes to Sovtek 5881WXT's and ENJOY!

What is the difference in tone and voicing in those speakers compared to the V30's, as for those power tubes, how would those you listed differ from JJ's or Ruby power tubes?

V30s accentuate the mids, G12K100 will be more bassy and scooped. Personnally, I wouldn't change those V30s
Although the 5881WXT isn't the worst, I wouldn't touch any Sovtek tube with a 10 foot pole

 

[Heritage Softail]

You can look up preamp tubes, specifically a 5157 type. There is plenty of info.

It is a slightly lower output tube and in V1 it often tames some of the high end sizzle a bit. There are NOS higher $ tubes and current production. For a $15 tube you could get the amp to calm down a bit, in a good way.

Add that to the pickup considerations and you may find your tone.

 

[Anonymous]

You can look up preamp tubes, specifically a 5157 type. There is plenty of info.

It is a slightly lower output tube and in V1 it often tames some of the high end sizzle a bit. There are NOS higher $ tubes and current production. For a $15 tube you could get the amp to calm down a bit, in a good way.

Add that to the pickup considerations and you may find your tone.

Good point
With your EMG ans OD pedal, there's a shitload of signal going in the input; having a lower gain V1 tube makes sense

 

[RuxinCaldwell]

You can look up preamp tubes, specifically a 5157 type. There is plenty of info.

It is a slightly lower output tube and in V1 it often tames some of the high end sizzle a bit. There are NOS higher $ tubes and current production. For a $15 tube you could get the amp to calm down a bit, in a good way.

Add that to the pickup considerations and you may find your tone.

I don't have a problem with forking out a little more money for a good, balanced tube for the V1 slot, I just wasn't crazy about the idea of buying ALL expensive tubes for each slot. I've heard good things about Mullards in the V1 slot. Can anyone recommend some good V1 tubes to get the most out of the amp?

 

[lolzgreg]

Did you buy it used? It could just be a dud. Brand new ones out of the box sound phenomenal- I got one last year and it's stuck around ever since. It smoked my old 5150 too.

 

[Metal1977]

Same setup as mine. Your cab is definitely not the problem here. If your guitar is made of alder i think that's the problem, emg 81 and alder don't match very well (too much treble going in there). If it's not the case try to put all JJ's 12ax7's in the preamp, they are a little shy on the treble side and fit really good with a 5150.

Chris

 

[Mizati20]

In all honesty that's really an inherent tone of the 5150 amps... I absolutely despise my 6505 when I am just playing it at home by myself... but there is nothing better when playing live or recording because that characteristic of the head is a huge part of what makes it sit in the mix so well... all that harsh top end disappears in the cymbals and it's just pissed off roaring 5150...

....that wasn't helpful at all and I apologize LoL

 

[lolzgreg]

I think it was a very insightful post. Most of the 6505's fizz factor is 13-15khz which does disappear in a band mix due to the cymbals taking up so much of that space. That frequency range actually has zero benefit in a recording context as well, so you can just LP that area and end up with a beefy and bright tone.

 

[Steinmetzify]

I absolutely despise my 6505 when I am just playing it at home by myself...

Just goes to show you that one is subjective....once I hit on the right guitar/pup combo, the 6505 turned into my favorite amp ever.

To the OP.....a lot of good advice above, and consider this as well....I dug the amp ok enough to keep it around for awhile while using EMGs and Blackouts, but after putting BKP Holydivers into a really HEAVY LP, this has turned into something I'll never get rid of....I'm actually looking around for another for a backup, and more BKPs for my other guitars.

Change out the EMGs for something a little higher end and passive, and see what you think. The HD's really tamed down the things I didn't like about this amp, while highlighting the things I did.

 

[RuxinCaldwell]

I think it was a very insightful post. Most of the 6505's fizz factor is 13-15khz which does disappear in a band mix due to the cymbals taking up so much of that space. That frequency range actually has zero benefit in a recording context as well, so you can just LP that area and end up with a beefy and bright tone.

Since its basically just a useless, harsh treble frequency, wouldn't an EQ pedal be a simple fix for this issue?