Pedals (or Cables) Coloring Tone: All True Bypass - Help?!

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Junk Yard Dog

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So here's the deal... I have guitar, Korg Pitchblack, Crybaby 535q, TC Spark Boost, to amp. Passive Duncan pickups.

When I plug straight to the amp, Splawn Pro Stock, it has a bit more clarity, sounds as it should.

When I plug into the pedals then to amp, I notice that clarity is slightly reduced and the notes are somewhat fatter with more mids. Less clank, more fat and mids. It's not necessarily bad, but I NEVER noticed this before. I plugged into every pedal individually and noticed the done difference, so I'm wondering if it's something else... like using TWO longer cables?

I'm using Mogami Gold cables, so pretty good cables. They are 18 foot cables.

All my pedals are true bypass, so I'm not sure if this is somewhat normal or what.

Maybe the difference is when I'm using TWO 18' cables vs. ONE cable.

ALSO, I noticed that when I plug straight in using my Shure Wireless GLX-D 16, the tone was clearer than when using two cables. ...So that's good... It sounded very close the one cable straight into the amp.

Is this just part of the deal?? Anyone have an experience an suggestions?
 
The Shure wireless is buffering your chain already. The wah is probably your culprit.
 
Agreed. I'd try it without the wah and see how it sounds with everything bypassed.

If not, do this systematically until you find the culprit.
 
UPDATE: As i did yesterday, I tried every pedal solo and it is not any one pedal. The mid-bump, fatness, and perceived gain is when I'm running two of the Mogami Gold cables into any of the pedals. The aha moment for me was when I ran both cables through the Korg Pitchblack: the different tone was still there.

When I ran all pedals through the Shure Wireless, the tone remained consistent.

So my question now is, if and when I don't want to run the Shure wireless, which cables color your tone the least? I thought these Mogami's wouldn't do that. It's never bothered me before, perse, but you know how it is...Ha!
 
I guess I missed the part about the Shure wireless I guess, I just read "all true bypass". So my bad.

Yeah I thought Mogami is good quality stuff as well, surprising. I mainly use Planet Waves patch cables and never had an issue with any so far. I've also used the plain jane no-brands that worked OK too if that helps.
 
Put a buffer immediately after your guitar before your first pedal.
 
I concur on the buffer. True bypass is overrated. Pedals are designed much better today,
 
Buffer as the first thing on your board. Then you will only get the sound of your guitar and the first cable. Just be aware that not all buffers are created the same. I picked up a Suhr buffer and found that it added more high end than I wanted. I have personally found that the buffer in my Strob-o-stomp added just the right amount of high end back into my tone. So just be aware. I know that there are a few buffers that allow you to tailor the highs. Maybe worth looking into those.
 
As mentioned in another post, the cry baby's seem to be the biggest offenders even when they are "true hardwired bypass" as Dunlop likes to call them. I think the new mini is solid and adds maybe just a hair of presence. The cheapest solution is a cheap loop box that allows you to punch your wah in and out of the chain as you see fit. The worst tone suckers are sometimes the best when on. I have a modded wah likes this. Dulls the tone to the amp but when on it brings the goods. So 35$ loop pedal of amazon to the rescue. Punch that tone sucking pig in and out like you would the clock at the end of a long day at work. Agree with the statement that true bypass is overated. Too many in a row also dulls the tone. To solve that you prob need to get a small buffer somewhere in line.
 
Kapo_Polenton":1g88tgal said:
As mentioned in another post, the cry baby's seem to be the biggest offenders even when they are "true hardwired bypass" as Dunlop likes to call them. I think the new mini is solid and adds maybe just a hair of presence. The cheapest solution is a cheap loop box that allows you to punch your wah in and out of the chain as you see fit. The worst tone suckers are sometimes the best when on. I have a modded wah likes this. Dulls the tone to the amp but when on it brings the goods. So 35$ loop pedal of amazon to the rescue. Punch that tone sucking pig in and out like you would the clock at the end of a long day at work. Agree with the statement that true bypass is overated. Too many in a row also dulls the tone. To solve that you prob need to get a small buffer somewhere in line.
Click to expand...

Cheers, guys. It actually is not the wah/Crybaby. I have the Rev F/latest version of the 535q, which hardwire or TBP, it wasn't the issue.

I plugged into every pedal individually, with two Mogami Gold cables, and THAT was the difference. One Mogami sounded fine. Two cables through one pedal (TBP) or all pedals at once sounded the exact same: slightly less clarity, increased fat mids. Both cables are 18".

When I used my Shure GLX-D 16, the difference was gone and it sounded like one cable again.

MY QUESTION IS: Is there a cable or brand in this situation that will not color tone as much or at all, i.e. less clarity, more mids, etc.

Thanks!
 
Junk Yard Dog":nuihvtce said:
Kapo_Polenton":nuihvtce said:
As mentioned in another post, the cry baby's seem to be the biggest offenders even when they are "true hardwired bypass" as Dunlop likes to call them. I think the new mini is solid and adds maybe just a hair of presence. The cheapest solution is a cheap loop box that allows you to punch your wah in and out of the chain as you see fit. The worst tone suckers are sometimes the best when on. I have a modded wah likes this. Dulls the tone to the amp but when on it brings the goods. So 35$ loop pedal of amazon to the rescue. Punch that tone sucking pig in and out like you would the clock at the end of a long day at work. Agree with the statement that true bypass is overated. Too many in a row also dulls the tone. To solve that you prob need to get a small buffer somewhere in line.
Click to expand...

Cheers, guys. It actually is not the wah/Crybaby. I have the Rev F/latest version of the 535q, which hardwire or TBP, it wasn't the issue.

I plugged into every pedal individually, with two Mogami Gold cables, and THAT was the difference. One Mogami sounded fine. Two cables through one pedal (TBP) or all pedals at once sounded the exact same: slightly less clarity, increased fat mids. Both cables are 18".

When I used my Shure GLX-D 16, the difference was gone and it sounded like one cable again.

MY QUESTION IS: Is there a cable or brand in this situation that will not color tone as much or at all, i.e. less clarity, more mids, etc.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It’s not the necessarily the type cables, but more the total length of cables you’re using. Like already said you need a buffer.
 
I had the exact problem a number of years ago. Narrowed it down to my Mogami cables. I used a number of different buffers and while they helped the signal strength, I still didn't like the tonal coloration in the mids. Not sure if all Mogami types are like that, but every one I've ever tried, I didn't care for. Everyone seems to rave about them but they don't really do it for me personally.

Not saying you still won't need a buffer if you use two 18' cables, but I started out with George L (great tonality and clarity, just didn't last long for me) and finally ended up with Dimarzio braided on the suggestion of a friend. Been using those for years now and am really happy with them.

http://www.dimarzio.com/cables/guitar/guitar-cable
 
Kevin11":3qlojwgq said:
I had the exact problem a number of years ago. Narrowed it down to my Mogami cables. I used a number of different buffers and while they helped the signal strength, I still didn't like the tonal coloration in the mids. Not sure if all Mogami types are like that, but every one I've ever tried, I didn't care for. Everyone seems to rave about them but they don't really do it for me personally.

Not saying you still won't need a buffer if you use two 18' cables, but I started out with George L (great tonality and clarity, just didn't last long for me) and finally ended up with Dimarzio braided on the suggestion of a friend. Been using those for years now and am really happy with them.

http://www.dimarzio.com/cables/guitar/guitar-cable
Click to expand...

Dimarzio cables are my fave. They don't suck tone like a lot of others out there.
 
if your wah is not buffer friendly or does not have one built in take it out of the loop or use a bypass.
 
Holy cow.

So glad I found this post. I've been going crazy with my pedal board after buying a new Mogami gold cable. I've always used Monster (I know everyone hates them, but I think they sound great). I've used them for 20 yrs now. Anyway I go into my pedalboard with the Monster, then out of board into the amp with the Mogami. There is this anoying 'cocked wah' type of sound on certain strings in certain areas. It was driving my nuts. I only use two true bypass pedals and one's a tuner. I have three amps and it was happening on all of them. Finally figured out going straight in with the Monster, it sounds natural and clear, but straight in with the Mogami it has that cocked sound. This is the shittiest cable I've ever heard. Very processed and unnatural. Nice to know I'm not the only one hearing it.
 
Buffer first in line. Always. Pete Cornish (the English Bob Bradshaw) has a very long article about buffer vs true bypass, it’s a great read. Check it out.
 
Junk Yard Dog":2boy3kv4 said:
When I plug into the pedals then to amp, I notice that clarity is slightly reduced and the notes are somewhat fatter with more mids. I'm using Mogami Gold cables, so pretty good cables. They are 18 foot cables.

All my pedals are true bypass, so I'm not sure if this is somewhat normal or what.

Is this just part of the deal?? Anyone have an experience an suggestions?
Click to expand...
JYD, the moment you introduce any pedal (or effect), stomp box, soap box or whatever into your signal chain (or signal path) between the output of your instrument to the input of your preamp you will experience a difference in tone. No matter what the cumulative cable length may be, 10', 20' and so on. The general rule for cable length is that a cumulative cable length spanning further than 16' will introduce attenuation in tone dynamics throughout its spectrum. This is simply fundamental electrical application engineering. There's no way around this particular type of configuration because you've altered your direct I/O signal path. The most direct and easy way to avoid this configuration is to use a effect loop. Weather it is a serial loop or parallel loop. In this case you place your effect(s) between the preamp and the power amp and the EQ in your preamp is only at the mercy of your output instrument cable. Also, please ditch the idea of going wireless to solve any tone issues with cabling. This becomes even worse in this instance. Besides, wireless audio systems were designed primarily or live performances and most professional musicians still try to avoid wireless systems at all cost.

As for the most true and noninvasive cables for electronic instruments for crucial music studio applications (and live performance) the reference cables from Evidence Audio are the highest quality on the consumer and professional market today.

JYD, you state that you currently use "Mogami Gold cables". Mogami cables are subpar (below average) for several reasons and will suffice only based on your personal criteria. A first and obvious reason for this fact is that Mogami uses gold plating for layer 1. Gold is a very poor conductor for electrical signals (or electricity). Gold is used more often in electrical applications (in this case male jacks or plugs) because gold has a much higher resistance to corrosion. However aside from looking cool, that's where it ends.

A much more superior material for electrical conductance (for the jack or plug) is layer 1 silver or brass coupled with layer 2 metal or preferred nickel. This is what Evidence Audio uses exclusively. What they use for the AWG (American Wire Gauge) is another very important factor in relation to instrument and audio drivers in producing the most clear and unaltered frequencies as possible throughout the signal path.

When you get some free time I would encourage you to read this short article by Pete Cornish. Pete is one of the pioneers of true bypass and sought after by many musicians that are very scrutinizing and meticulous about their pure tone. It will reveal to you that true bypass is not the only "possible" solution to all your linking issues. Much more, in some cases it could be your worst enemy.

Good luck in your tone quest.
 

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