Pedals (or Cables) Coloring Tone: All True Bypass - Help?!

[CrazyNutz]

Coax cables have capacitance. They are 2 conductors separated by an insulator, this is basically a capacitor. The longer the cable, the higher the value cap you create. Since the shield is tied to ground, the capacitance created bleeds high frequency to ground. The is exactly the same effect you would have if you tied a 10-100pf cap from the center conductor to ground.

If you have a meter that measures capacitance, clip one lead to the tip, and one to the sleeve of a guitar cable (make sure its not plugged into anything on the other end) you will measure capacitance in the picofarad range.

 

[errrrrl]

That Friedman buffer bay is handy if you are looking for a buffer and patch bay rolled into one. It makes a pretty big difference on my setup.

 

[fusedbrain]

Coax cables have capacitance. They are 2 conductors separated by an insulator, this is basically a capacitor. The longer the cable, the higher the value cap you create. Since the shield is tied to ground, the capacitance created bleeds high frequency to ground. The is exactly the same effect you would have if you tied a 10-100pf cap from the center conductor to ground.

If you have a meter that measures capacitance, clip one lead to the tip, and one to the sleeve of a guitar cable (make sure its not plugged into anything on the other end) you will measure capacitance in the picofarad range.

This.^^
Some brands have less than others, but the main offender is the total cable length.
For what it's worth, I think Canare is the best cable I've tried for Hi Z signals ( guitars etc..)

This also ties in with the other thread about the Klon type pedals. A lot of what guys loved about their tone when they added a Klon to the chain was the buffer.

 

[fearhk213]

Like many have said, a buffer is what you want due to the total cable length. Even if you “upgrade”your cable maybe it will sound better for your tastes than the Mogami but you’ll still notice a difference going from straight in to adding the true bypassed pedal and a second cable. I don’t know of any cable immune from reduced highs & clarity when the total length gets long. The buffer will restore clarity and top end.

 

[CrazyNutz]

Coax cables have capacitance. They are 2 conductors separated by an insulator, this is basically a capacitor. The longer the cable, the higher the value cap you create. Since the shield is tied to ground, the capacitance created bleeds high frequency to ground. The is exactly the same effect you would have if you tied a 10-100pf cap from the center conductor to ground.

If you have a meter that measures capacitance, clip one lead to the tip, and one to the sleeve of a guitar cable (make sure its not plugged into anything on the other end) you will measure capacitance in the picofarad range.

This.^^
Some brands have less than others, but the main offender is the total cable length.
For what it's worth, I think Canare is the best cable I've tried for Hi Z signals ( guitars etc..)

This also ties in with the other thread about the Klon type pedals. A lot of what guys loved about their tone when they added a Klon to the chain was the buffer.

Yes the cable length is the problem, because the capacitance rises as the cable gets longer and thus cutting more of the highs.

You probably know this, but I'll explane for others:

A particular model cable may be 10pf @ 10 foot. Now go 20 foot, now you have 20pf.

The problem with True bypass effects is it makes two 10 foot cables appear as a single 20 foot (and 20pf) when bypassed. A buffered effect will not add the capacitance of the two cables like this, thus you only have to worry about the capacitance (treble attenuation) of a single cable (10pf in this example).

 

[Chupa.Cabra]

The problem with True bypass effects is it makes two 10 foot cables appear as a single 20 foot (and 20pf) when bypassed. A buffered effect will not add the capacitance of the two cables like this, thus you only have to worry about the capacitance (treble attenuation) of a single cable (10pf in this example).

Very true (no pun). However, you're still at the mercy of the inline device within your source signal path.

As it has been said and painstakingly verified, input impedance of the majority of guitar amps is 1 mega Ohm (one million ohms) there are few effects pedals that have the same input impedance. Most pedal effects have an input impedance of less than 100 kilo Ohms, one tenth of the guitar amps input impedance. A load on the guitar pickup of less than 1 mega Ohm will reduce the volume and high frequency content of the pickup signal and this is why you will sense that the effect pedal looses tone and output volume.

In this case using an effect loop is the best way to circumvent this inevitable problem within the premp.

 

[paulyc]

So what do typical 250, 300 and 500K volume pots do to the signal ? They’re all less than 1 meg but accepted as “normal” values.

All this goes out the window if you use a fuzz based on a true Fuzz Face, as those need to be first in line to interact with the guitar directly, sans any buffer. I think this is also the reason so many classic rock guitar tones are wooly and lack high end or clarity, coiled long cables and no buffers and no true bypass, but if you want a Hendrix tone...

 

[romanianreaper]

The Shure wireless is buffering your chain already. The wah is probably your culprit.

Yep, exactly what I was going to say. I have had more issues with a wah than any other pedal and I think it is just a different animal. Plus you got these moving parts in there that just add to the issues. I had a Morley Wah I used to gig with and depending on the location, I would get all kinds of noise.

 

[scottosan]

Any of you handy types out there, this is a great little circuit. It's a buffer intended for pedal builds but instead of connecting to a pedal circuit, simply solder to send and return jacks. The buffer stays in circuit and you can use it to take stuff completly out of circuit. I use this in the loop of my builds to make the effects in my loop switchable. It cuts down on the popping of many pedals in the loop as well. Use a bi color LED and it will ship red for effects bypassed and green for loop effects engaged.

https://guitarpcb.com/product/3pdt-buff ... ass-board/