playing *to* the TONE

[mentoneman]

I totally agree with your first post but imho all of the tones in the vid suck (some due to recording/video quality). This is a much better example me thinks:

he is a killer touch player with one of the most sought after strat tones ever laid down (sultans) but that vid did not have any special sound to it imo.

 

[mentoneman]

In Mentone, you don't play amp....amp play you!

weird thing about the fuchs was i LOVE robben ford tone, and in my estimation the ODS 100 did that tone as good or better than anything i'd ever played,
but then i felt trapped playing robben ford licks with that amp. it didn't do anything else even close to what i wanted the amp to do. decent cleans, not so great crunch, but robben ford lead fusion/blues tone...spot on.

 

[mentoneman]

Yup, playing to te amp...the very reason why I never could make a Dumble work for me. That said playing to the amp has IMO more to do with how hard you hit than anything else. And I had the same issue with say a vibroverb with choking the snot out of the notes as I had when I played friends Dumbles with the exception of SSS or Dumble style amps. Now that I'm back at fingers with no pick I can actually work a vibroverb.

good point.

i definitely don't picture you being a dumble guy due to your heavy attack.

it's definitely always been my goal once i knew what i was doing on the guitar to play dynamically with tones and setups that respond to soft or hard touch, so i instinctively gravitate to players that use that element.
i had the advantage of starting on acoustic things like ukelele and classical guitars around the house, which are very responsive to things like picking with your nail versus the flesh of your finger for tone and volume, using lateral classical vibrato versus string bending, etc.

Yup, been playing a lot of acoustic and ditched the pick again so the dynamics thing is something I've been messing with lately.

i'd love to hear what you could do with an acoustic into the axefx.

i'm into earthy piano type acoustic gtr tones.

 

[mentoneman]

Agree!
That's why I ditched the Pod stuff...no playing for the gear there, just all glide.
I set my amps up similar enough (JTM45, Vox, Polaris...) so the feel, frequencies and gain are very similar.
I basically try to make all my amps sound like the same amp. That's why I see no point in buying anymore amps...I just have a flavor I like no matter what.

But I must say, getting on someone else's rig, that you're not used to, can be a nightmare for sure.

that is one thing i can't get around with the POD and the L6 effects. the plastic uniformity and lower dynamic ceiling of the devices drives me nuts! there are guys whose tones i admire who use L6 but for me and my touch, nope.

the hybrid amps are much more appealing, but all it takes is to call up a fender patch on a L6 amp and then plug in to a fender deluxe to hear what i'm saying. bogner alchemist lead tone is pretty neat though.

the M13 i bought almost had me until i unplugged it and tried my old chorus and drive pedals.

i felt so dirty and ashamed....

if the M13 did:
one great univibe ala megavibe
one great analog delay with modulation ala echoplex (keep the looping though..my favorite part of the M13)
one great compressor ala dynacomp
one great chorus ala arion or tristereo
one great reverb ala lexicon
one great drive ala tube screamer

i would still have it. but it did a gazillion mediocre things that sucked tone..

 

[mentoneman]

Pat... Good taste... You haz it.

I agree completely.

what rig you slinging these days?

 

[Death by Uberschall]

It comes from the hands, but it's up to the guitar and amp to translate it correctly to match. How the notes hit, swell and decay are what you hear.

 

[Digital Jams]

I will readily admit I was not much for dynamics until I found the magic of Plexi type amps, could not play them so I never bothered. After awhile after I built enough chops to fight a plexi and not be totally ashamed and the dynamics thing came........aint no dynamics with 4+ gain stages.

Wont even get into the dicovery of single coils, nothing beats a marshall and strat. I cringe thinking what I thought were good cleans. Yngwie had it figured out all along.

I still likes me some stupid compressed mayhem but man it is getting better every week with a single channel amp.

 

[mentoneman]

It comes from the hands, but it's up to the guitar and amp to translate it correctly to match. How the notes hit, swell and decay are what you hear.

yep-

i love when the GC kid with the sparsely populated upper lip plugs his warlock in to a vox and starts trying the metallica type soup du jour riff and there is just no "shunk shunk" going on. in fact it is more akin to sammy hagar stuttering tongue twisters into a comforter with his thumbs wedged into his formidable nostrils.

and then offers to the equally non-seasoned compadre yoked to his side: "pffffffff-----this amp sux!"

...oh contraire my greasy chinned amigo...

 

[mentoneman]

I will readily admit I was not much for dynamics until I found the magic of Plexi type amps, could not play them so I never bothered. After awhile after I built enough chops to fight a plexi and not be totally ashamed and the dynamics thing came........aint no dynamics with 4+ gain stages.

Wont even get into the dicovery of single coils, nothing beats a marshall and strat. I cringe thinking what I thought were good cleans. Yngwie had it figured out all along.

I still likes me some stupid compressed mayhem but man it is getting better every week with a single channel amp.

and the hard part about that is you can't just "tell" someone about that kind of thing nor expect them to pick up on it right away, particularly if there is copious amounts of high gain in the player's foundation.

"here...play using this tone that's a total struggle at first and makes you relearn your touch on the instrument. It'll sound like refried anusol at first but eventually it will be angels singing...maybe..."

high gain always was and always will be fun to me, and there is no way i could ever try to play my stupid little fake shawn lane/holdsworth/yngwie practice lines without it, nor could i have ever honed in some of my coordination that comes with learning shred licks with max gain tone, but none of those tones are practical or what i consider my "working man's meat and potato" tones.

 

[Digital Jams]

I will readily admit I was not much for dynamics until I found the magic of Plexi type amps, could not play them so I never bothered. After awhile after I built enough chops to fight a plexi and not be totally ashamed and the dynamics thing came........aint no dynamics with 4+ gain stages.

Wont even get into the dicovery of single coils, nothing beats a marshall and strat. I cringe thinking what I thought were good cleans. Yngwie had it figured out all along.

I still likes me some stupid compressed mayhem but man it is getting better every week with a single channel amp.

and the hard part about that is you can't just "tell" someone about that kind of thing nor expect them to pick up on it right away, particularly if there is copious amounts of high gain in the player's foundation.

"here...play using this tone that's a total struggle at first and makes you relearn your touch on the instrument. It'll sound like refried anusol at first but eventually it will be angels singing...maybe..."

high gain always was and always will be fun to me, and there is no way i could ever try to play my stupid little fake shawn lane/holdsworth/yngwie practice lines without it, nor could i have ever honed in some of my coordination that comes with learning shred licks with max gain tone, but none of those tones are practical or what i consider my "working man's meat and potato" tones.

It would be scary to unleast a guy like Ant with a superstrat and MK IV what he would do in regards to speed, huge respect for his playing with the stuff he uses. I use the Yngwie clone for the shed now and it is funny when I pick up a pencil necked ibby with hot buckers and hotrails...that was my problem the whole time and should have listened to some of the guys more to put that stuff away. It is no wonder how guys like you, Curt, Steve, Gainy have these fierce chops, you were busting your asses on JMPs.

About the dumble stuff though, kills me when people ask how to get Joe B's tone and people start rattling off Cat5and CA Hello?!?!?!?!?!??! MARSHALL

I will admit I want to try a CA

 

[Variable]

I will readily admit I was not much for dynamics until I found the magic of Plexi type amps, could not play them so I never bothered. After awhile after I built enough chops to fight a plexi and not be totally ashamed and the dynamics thing came........aint no dynamics with 4+ gain stages.

Wont even get into the dicovery of single coils, nothing beats a marshall and strat. I cringe thinking what I thought were good cleans. Yngwie had it figured out all along.

I still likes me some stupid compressed mayhem but man it is getting better every week with a single channel amp.

That's a lot of the reason I play the Guytron; it's not all compressed pre-amp distortion since the EL84s are slaved into an EL34 power section. Single coils sound frightening through this amp; clean to scream with just the pick attack Don't even get my started on the #4 position on my Suhr through this thing... my playing has gotten a lot better since I gave up the super compressed metal gain thing, too.

My standard for dynamics and "playing" the amp these days:

 

[stratotone]

I will readily admit I was not much for dynamics until I found the magic of Plexi type amps, could not play them so I never bothered. After awhile after I built enough chops to fight a plexi and not be totally ashamed and the dynamics thing came........aint no dynamics with 4+ gain stages.

Wont even get into the dicovery of single coils, nothing beats a marshall and strat. I cringe thinking what I thought were good cleans. Yngwie had it figured out all along.

I still likes me some stupid compressed mayhem but man it is getting better every week with a single channel amp.

You REALLY need to check out a trainwreck or clone... dynamics out the wazoo. I can get great lead tones with nice sustain or back off and get great cleans from the same amp settings on mine.

Pete

 

[Anonymous]

After awhile after I built enough chops to fight a plexi and not be totally ashamed

Clips or it didn't happen! I needs me some DigiPlex clips and you ain't posted any!

Steve

 

[Sick Michael]

Amen brother Pat! Flesh. its all about flesh.

I had the same problem with Engl amps. Good amps no doubt, but couldnt work with the tone. I sounded foolish, then Mesa welcomed me back into the fold.

DigiJams is right too, the single coil discovery is a righteous landmark.

Those were nice videos. Mentone owns.

 

[glpg80]

there is nothing like the single coil whine. i love LOVE LOVE a strat just crying its heart out into a marshall or any mildy clean tone. its just the wow effect itself.

i grew up on blues music and learned on it as well. the first 2 years of my playing was through the clean channel of my instructor's 5150. dynamics and picking habbits needed to be understood before tackling the speedy licks.

i often find myself using the dynamics tricks i have learned in ending phrases with my original solos in my power metal band. its stuff you cant really teach someone... its just something you have to experience first, learn it yourself, understand it, and know how to play it.

it only makes you a more dynamic player with the entire fretboard and gets you thinking outside the box. that is what i have always liked.

but, i will say that with the high gain tones and such, that the dynamics are in the note phrasing and choices of notes and how you plan to say them with the mixing of speed into the equation, but only in moderation or doing it where its actually music. people say there are no dynamics in high gain tones and i find that its in the notes you choose to play and how you choose to play them while having the gain to add a wider range of how to phrase your notes. i dare say carefully that speed plays a large part. but a speedy player is not what i mean.

 

[MisterBulbous]

Amen brother Pat! Flesh. its all about flesh.

I had the same problem with Engl amps. Good amps no doubt, but couldnt work with the tone. I sounded foolish, then Mesa welcomed me back into the fold.

DigiJams is right too, the single coil discovery is a righteous landmark.

Those were nice videos. Mentone owns.

I hear you on the ENGL. I'm no way considered "mr dynamic", but I almost exlusively play my powerball on the clean channel with a single coil strat. I've got a couple of homemade fuzz pedals that it takes very well. By simply switching between pickups, volume knob, and pick attack I can go from Ronnie Earl to Dokken without switching the amp to nuclear high-gain position.

 

[tweed]

Great post Pat!!!!!

I got some lessons from Hinds a while back. That guy is a freakin' monster!! I have to admit to slacking off lately with high gainage. It fit for what the band was doing and did make things supah easy which was nice, but I would rather set a nice fender or plexi on 6 across the board and the proceed to play it until I can play no more.

Off to Monterey with the family for a day of aquarium/beach fun, then tomorrow its woodshed city for an upcoming rehearsal.

 

[mentoneman]

i

It would be scary to unleast a guy like Ant with a superstrat and MK IV what he would do in regards to speed, huge respect for his playing with the stuff he uses. I use the Yngwie clone for the shed now and it is funny when I pick up a pencil necked ibby with hot buckers and hotrails...that was my problem the whole time and should have listened to some of the guys more to put that stuff away. It is no wonder how guys like you, Curt, Steve, Gainy have these fierce chops, you were busting your asses on JMPs.

About the dumble stuff though, kills me when people ask how to get Joe B's tone and people start rattling off Cat5and CA Hello?!?!?!?!?!??! MARSHALL

I will admit I want to try a CA

you'd be surprised how gainy and spitty that dod od250 can be
my college rig was a small fender harvard reverb II with that yellow dod and one of zachman's Les pauls and you'd be pleasantly surprised how legatoey the tone was.

And my first electric rig was a hohner strat with chin up action, a peavey tko80 bass amp, and a Ross distortion box.

Talk about struggle. I learned most of the solos on the first Alcatraz album with that rig!

 

[mentoneman]

That's a lot of the reason I play the Guytron; it's not all compressed pre-amp distortion since the EL84s are slaved into an EL34 power section. Single coils sound frightening through this amp; clean to scream with just the pick attack Don't even get my started on the #4 position on my Suhr through this thing... my playing has gotten a lot better since I gave up the super compressed metal gain thing, too.

My standard for dynamics and "playing" the amp these days:

your amp sounds like I'd really dig it

using power tubes as your "preamp tubes" really attract me

 

[mentoneman]

You REALLY need to check out a trainwreck or clone... dynamics out the wazoo. I can get great lead tones with nice sustain or back off and get great cleans from the same amp settings on mine.

Pete

komet and plexi 45 and deliverance amps are great like that.