Post the monent Face Really/Acne Freckley decided he didn't need to pracite any more.

[VonBonfire]

The thing is, all my heroes love kiss because of the image and the aesthetic which I totally get - and they deserve maximum credit for that, as well as maximizing their income with it

I refuse to watch bands where the theatrics is more important that the music. Kiss went on a downhill trajectory from the very first album, which was a great album. They could've swung that first album into a street tough image (ok maybe not Paul LOL), looking like a bunch of bowery drunks, addicts, street urchins. Those songs had that raw feel. Instead they became action figure dolls and lunch box decor for kids. I guess it made them more money tho. Hey at least their die hard fans can get buried in a Kiss coffin smh...

 

[DanTravis62]

Hmm, you seem to know alot about Kiss for disliking them so much.

So other than Dick Wagner (one song), Bob Kulick (three songs) and Anton Fig (drums on Dynasty and Unmasked), who were the other players on all the "original" Kiss albums? Those guys above is all standard Kiss fan knowledge but you seem to have more intel, so who else played the parts? As a Kiss fan I'd like to know.

Dude they are absolutely notorious for using session musicians for tracks, it's common industry knowledge - that's how I know without being a kiss fan - because people in the rock world never shut the fuck up about kiss

Eddie trunk has gone on long rants trying to defend it on his radio station

bob ezrin and Eddie Kramer have said so in multiple interviews

Kulick has complained about not getting credited for shit

This isn't a "name the examples" situation, it's more like an Ozzy situation - where Ozzy takes all the credit after everyone in the room puts tracks together

 

[GreenRust]

The thing is, all my heroes love kiss because of the image and the aesthetic which I totally get - and they deserve maximum credit for that, as well as maximizing their income with it

it's just kiss fans always overdo it and overstate the case, and pretend they're Led Zeppelin when it's more like Milli Vanilli - which hey man, Milli Vanilli sold a shit ton of records too

"Meat and potatoes players" dude they don't even PLAY any of their own music, studio OR live, or write it even, and they haven't for 40 fuckin years lol

If you wanna say Paul's voice is pleasing for you, sure, at least it's ACTUALLY HIM SINGING for some of it

I get where you're coming from. I'm a Kiss fan (74 to 79 era only...ok.i like creatures and revenge too haha). Kiss is like McDonalds..
Some people that like good food still like McDonalds and others that like good food don't like it...and just because it can be good to some people, doesn't mean it's good food.

They're total meat and potatoes..nowhere near the same level as Zepp or AC/DC, I would never argue that at all. It's just simple mc cheeseburger songs about banging chicks and partying...songs written for teenage boys. And I like the simplicity of that...sometimes.

 

[jabps]

Dude they are absolutely notorious for using session musicians for tracks, it's common industry knowledge - that's how I know without being a kiss fan - because people in the rock world never shut the fuck up about kiss

Eddie trunk has gone on long rants trying to defend it on his radio station

bob ezrin and Eddie Kramer have said so in multiple interviews

Kulick has complained about not getting credited for shit

This isn't a "name the examples" situation, it's more like an Ozzy situation - where Ozzy takes all the credit after everyone in the room puts tracks together

So again, who? It's well documented on what Kulick, Wagner and Fig played on but again who else? Give me an interview from Kramer, Ezrin or Trunk where they mention players other than those on the original band recordings. As I said, as a fan I'd love to know.

If it's common industry knowledge and they are notorious shouldn't you be able to back that up with names?

 

[Floyd Eye]

Everything up to Dynasty is great. And they wrote all that shit. And recorded it and played it live.

 

[Greazygeo]

Playing on Kiss Alive I is pretty good imo. Ace’s solo album was good too.

He plays terrible these days.

 

[stratjacket]

I like the idea of Kiss.

 

[DanTravis62]

I get where you're coming from. I'm a Kiss fan (74 to 79 era only...ok.i like creatures and revenge too haha). Kiss is like McDonalds..
Some people that like good food still like McDonalds and others that like good food don't like it...and just because it can be good to some people, doesn't mean it's good food.

They're total meat and potatoes..nowhere near the same level as Zepp or AC/DC, I would never argue that at all. It's just simple mc cheeseburger songs about banging chicks and partying...songs written for teenage boys. And I like the simplicity of that...sometimes.

I get the "meat and potatoes" description of the final product, it's just i'm not convinced they've done very much actual recording as musicians since the late 70s at the least

So again, who? It's well documented on what Kulick, Wagner and Fig played on but again who else? Give me an interview from Kramer, Ezrin or Trunk where they mention players other than those on the original band recordings. As I said, as a fan I'd love to know.

If it's common industry knowledge and they are notorious shouldn't you be able to back that up with names?

Dude I just gave you a bunch of names of people who have talked about it, I'm not gonna hunt down every freaking eddie trunk interview and wade through all that Kiss talk again

Everything up to Dynasty is great. And they wrote all that shit. And recorded it and played it live.

I can totally believe that. It's just everything that came after, that's the issue. Notice how every single lead guitar player that has been in the band since Ace has sued for songwriting credit at some point? It's pretty obvious that Kiss has been a brand more than a band since at least that time period.

 

[jabps]

Dude I just gave you a bunch of names of people who have talked about it, I'm not gonna hunt down every freaking eddie trunk interview and wade through all that Kiss talk again

You didn't give me anything except "supposedly" who said what. What are the names of the musicians that supposedly played all of the original band Kiss tracks in the studio? As you said it's common industry knowledge, as a fan I'd like to know.

I gave you more than that, I gave you Dick Wagner - one solo, some fills for another song and some acoustic work on Destroyer, he was the guy Ezrin brought in. Bob Kulick - three solo's on Alive II side four, the side with the original songs. Bob has even stated that is all he played on with the "original" Kiss on record. And Anton Fig who handled drums on all Dynasty songs except one and all of Unmasked.

I get it, you hate them. Totally fine by me but now you're tossing out stuff that has already been gone over with a fine tooth comb for 5 decades by Kiss obsessed (not me) fans who could tell you where the guys were on March 4th, 1976 and what they ate for dinner. I mean there's websites out there that document every single one of their guitars, the modifications to them and what happened to them so you think they wouldn't have found out about other sessions guys doing all the work other than the one's I just pointed out? But hey, whatever if that makes you sleep better at night lol.

 

[DanTravis62]

You didn't give me anything except "supposedly" who said what. What are the names of the musicians that supposedly played all of the Kiss tracks in the studio? As you said it's common industry knowledge, as a fan I'd like to know.

I gave you more than that, I gave your Dick Wagner - one solo as some acoustic work on Destroyer, he was the guy Ezrin brought in. Bob Kulick - three solo's on Alive II side four, the side with the original songs. Bob has even stated that is all he played on with the original Kiss. And Anton Fig who handled drums on all Dynasty songs except one and all of Unmasked.

I get it, you hate them. Totally fine by me but now you're tossing out stuff that has already been gone over with a fine tooth comb for 5 decades by Kiss obsessed (not me) fans who could tell you where the guys were on March 4th, 1976 and what they ate for dinner. I mean there's websites out there that document every single one of their guitars, the modifications to them and what happened to them so you think they wouldn't have found out about other sessions guys doing all the work other than the one's I just pointed out? But hey, whatever if that makes you sleep better at night lol.

 

[DanTravis62]

@jabps i'm not going to do all of this research for you my man, if you're that Kiss obsessed you surely can find Steve Farris or Mitch Weissman interviews or listen to eddie trunks old radio shows

 

[DanTravis62]

Just to start out with some super secret special knowledge though, here's the literal first google result

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/kiss-secret-performers/

 

[VonBonfire]

@jabps i'm not going to do all of this research for you my man, if you're that Kiss obsessed you surely can find Steve Farris or Mitch Weissman interviews or listen to eddie trunks old radio shows

You dared to criticize the Beatles of the late boomer/older gen X'ers NOW YOU WILL PAY!!!

 

[jabps]

Yep seen it, and you know Paul had vocal help on the last tour as well. Is that your "gotcha" because that's all common knowledge at this point.

All I'm asking for is original Kiss, give me something solid about them not doing all their own playing except the guys I mentioned.

 

[jabps]

Just to start out with some super secret special knowledge though, here's the literal first google result

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/kiss-secret-performers/

Lol, I said original Kiss and I ain't talking about a Conga player. Guitar, Bass, Drums.

C'mon man, you can do better than this.

 

[DanTravis62]

You dared to criticize the Beatles of the late boomer/older gen X'ers NOW YOU WILL PAY!!!

The scary thing is this literally IS common knowledge, i've never read it, but I'm pretty sure Gene talked about it in one of his books or some shit

Like this isn't a controversial take or something, like I posted above, there's so many sources its impossible to narrow it down

Then it becomes

Do you have a source on that?

Source?

A source. I need a source.

Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.

No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered.

You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence.

Do you have a degree in that field?

A college degree? In that field?

Then your arguments are invalid.

No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation.

Correlation does not equal causation.

CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION.

You still haven't provided me a valid source yet.

Nope, still haven't.

I just looked through all 308 pages of your user history, figures I'm debating a glormpf supporter. A moron. YOU JUST HATE KISS MAN

 

[VonBonfire]

The scary thing is this literally IS common knowledge, i've never read it, but I'm pretty sure Gene talked about it in one of his books or some shit

Ringo is a shitty drummer too but dare to say it publicly. This kinda neuroticism is what you get when you replace JC with crappy rock bands as your icons of worship.

 

[jabps]

@jabps i'm not going to do all of this research for you my man, if you're that Kiss obsessed you surely can find Steve Farris or Mitch Weissman interviews or listen to eddie trunks old radio shows

Dude are you having trouble reading, I said original Kiss.

I know all the the guys who did session work with them afterwards, all that is easy to find. That has been common knowledge for years and literally every Kiss fan even the non obsessed one's like myself know who they are. How about Robben Ford, Mike Porcarro, Jean Beauviour from the Plasmatics. Not of hard to find.

Here's an idea, go to Kiss FAQ, they posted all this stuff years ago.

 

[DanTravis62]

Lol, I said original Kiss and I ain't talking about a Conga player. Guitar, Bass, Drums.

C'mon man, you can do better than this.

Dude do I have to copy and paste every word of that article or are you going to fucking read it?

"Dick Wagner, who had worked with Bob Ezrin on classic albums by Lou Reed and Alice Cooper, was recruited by the producer for some secret contributions on Kiss' 1976 album Destroyer. He can be heard on "Beth," "Flaming Youth," "Great Expectations" and to Ace Frehley's extreme displeasure, performing the solo on "Sweet Pain." “I had done a solo on ‘Sweet Pain’ and it was okay," Frehley recalled in Behind the Mask. "I said, ‘Maybe I’ll come in tomorrow and take another shot at it.’ Instead… When I first played the record back, I go, ‘That’s not my fucking solo! What the fuck is this shit?’ I called Gene and tore him a new asshole. He gave me some bullshit saying, ‘We tried to call you but we couldn’t find you.’ one of many bullshit stories, lies, lies, lies." (Frehley's solo was restored for 2012's Destroyer: Resurrected reissue.) When Erzin teamed up with Kiss for a third time on 1992's Revenge, he called in Wagner once again for the solo on the ballad "Every Time I Look at You."

"After playing on Gene Simmons' 1978 solo album, studio drummer extraordinaire Allan Schwartzberg - who's played on everything from James Brown's "Funky President" to Tony Orlando and Dawn's "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Ole Oak Tree" and Peter Gabriel's "Solsbury Hill" - was occasionally called in to help Kiss out with specific songs or overdubs. "We started playing 'I' and Eric [Carr] had just joined the band and couldn't cop the feel so we had to use Allan,"

"Three years before his band Mr. Mister had two chart-topping hits with 1985's "Broken Wings" and "Kryie," guitarist Steve Farris was briefly in the running to replace Ace Frehley in Kiss. After auditioning for the group he was peppered with a series of questions: "They said, 'Will you dye your hair black?' 'Sure.' Can you wear high heels?' 'I'll give it a try.' ... For a couple weeks I thought I might be the new guitar player," he told Tone-Talk. The solo he played for the song "Creatures of the Night" during his audition wound up being used on the record - without being credited, of course - but ultimately Kiss decided to go with Vinnie Vincent instead."

"Paul Stanley and Eric Carr are the only two members of Kiss to perform on the title track from Creatures of the Night. In addition to Steve Farris' previously mentioned lead guitar work, the duo were joined by Toto bassist Mike Porcaro on the track."


This is just the stuff that's easy enough to source for a freakin clickbait Listicle on ultimate classic rock, becase they've admitted to it in their books or whatever - this isn't even the rumored spicier shit for god's sake

 

[skoora]

Dude are you having trouble reading, I said original Kiss.

I know all the the guys who did session work with them afterwards, all that is easy to find. That has been common knowledge for years and literally every Kiss fan even the non obsessed one's like myself know who they are. How about Robben Ford, Mike Porcarro, Jean Beauviour from the Plasmatics. Not of that is hard to find.

I love that Bryan Adams co-wrote War Machine. F’n war machine.