Recto "Golden Years"?

[TX6Strings]

Hey guys....what are considered "the golden years" for the early rectos I always hear about?

Thanks

 

[VESmedic]

I think the early "blackface" models are the ones people are after from what I understand. Also heard alot of "hype" about the early rackmount rectifiers. Why? well....from what I understand, they were alittle more aggressive, and had a much tighter response/feel I believe. For instance, I believe Testaments "The gathering" was recorded with a rackmount rectifier, and happens to be the best recto tone I've ever heard in Metal music, outside of Nevermores Dead Heart in a Dead World.

 

[Anonymous]

even though im not a HUGE fan, i'd probably guess that Korn factors into this early recto discussion at some point. i know one of them used a tremoverb live...i cant remember though. munky is still an avid Mesa user too.

 

[SFW]

Serial numbers under 500 are supposed to be the ones to have. I've had a 2ch Dual and a Tremoverb. Both were great amps. I will say that I prefer the tone of the 2 channel models over the 3 channel ones. Yes there is a difference, and which is better depends on personal preference. I prefer the 2 channel.

 

[some dude]

Personally, I think the Recto golden years are happening right now. I've had a few over the years and still have a Rev F Dual Recto from 1992 (complete with Mark III transformers) and a 2009 Roadster. The Roadster is every bit as good as the old Recto if not better (required swapping preamp tubes in the Roadster... the stock JJs are too dark).

If you A/B them don't sound identical, although they both sound exactly like a Recto and are unlikely to be confused for something else. The biggest difference to me is that I can lean the Roadster out and make it sound like the brighter, more aggressive sounding Rev F but I can't fatten the Rev F up and make it sound like the Roadster.

When they're on bold/diode they're pretty similar... it's when you get into the power sagging options that the differences stand out. The variac on the old Recto does a better job of actually browning the amp out while the same feature on the Roadster doesn't seem to brown the whole amp yet makes the amp sound better at low volumes. The other big difference is the channel cloning on the old ones. The old 2 channel amps are basically single channel amps with a switching tone stack and negative feedback loop, and when you clone channels some parts of the other channel's tone stack stay in place... so you can do some cool stuff by cloning orange to red and vice versa.

Word is the new 3 channel is a big improvement over the last generation of 3 channel, although I can't personally testify as I've never played a 3 channel Recto.

even though im not a HUGE fan, i'd probably guess that Korn factors into this early recto discussion at some point. i know one of them used a tremoverb live...i cant remember though. munky is still an avid Mesa user too.

I'm pretty sure they gravitated to Triple Rectos. Extra headroom for the low A tuning they had going on.

 

[some dude]

On that note, I'm not suggesting that the Roadster is a no-holds barred better amp (although I personally like it more than the 2 channel). What I am suggesting is that you try a sampling of different Rectos and figure out which voicing works for you. For instance, a lot of people will point out the Rev C/Pre-500 as the holy grail Recto and totally ignore that it had the worst clean channel out of all of them. Obviously not a big deal if you only want high gain all the time, but something to consider if you need to be able to switch and don't want to carry a second amp to the gig. It's also not a great choice if you want the classic 90s Recto sound, which is the darker, looser sounding Rev G.

Additionally, some people find the Roadster too dark/smooth and prefer the brighter, more aggressive sound of the 3 channel Recto. Back in the early 2000s there were a lot of people who ditched their 2 channels because the 3 channel was brighter and cut better in a live mix. Others preferred the darker/smoother sound of the 2 channels and started to seek them out.

Case in point on thinking for yourself, there's a dude on the Boogie forum (Silverwulf) that's owned probably one or two hundred Rectos over the years. He went on some kind of quest years ago and just kept selling/buying Rectos so he could test the theories for himself. He's owned every revision of Recto, including a number of the Rev C's that people will point to as the Holy Grail/Pre-500 Rectos. He kept a Rev F Dual and a Rev G Triple. He's the one who told me about leaning out a modern Recto to make it sound more like a vintage Recto, which started me onto experimenting.

Anyway... keep and open mind and make the decision for yourself rather than letting other people make it for you.

 

[Anonymous]

On that note, I'm not suggesting that the Roadster is a no-holds barred better amp (although I personally like it more than the 2 channel). What I am suggesting is that you try a sampling of different Rectos and figure out which voicing works for you. For instance, a lot of people will point out the Rev C/Pre-500 as the holy grail Recto and totally ignore that it had the worst clean channel out of all of them. Obviously not a big deal if you only want high gain all the time, but something to consider if you need to be able to switch and don't want to carry a second amp to the gig. It's also not a great choice if you want the classic 90s Recto sound, which is the darker, looser sounding Rev G.

Additionally, some people find the Roadster too dark/smooth and prefer the brighter, more aggressive sound of the 3 channel Recto. Back in the early 2000s there were a lot of people who ditched their 2 channels because the 3 channel was brighter and cut better in a live mix. Others preferred the darker/smoother sound of the 2 channels and started to seek them out.

Case in point on thinking for yourself, there's a dude on the Boogie forum (Silverwulf) that's owned probably one or two hundred Rectos over the years. He went on some kind of quest years ago and just kept selling/buying Rectos so he could test the theories for himself. He's owned every revision of Recto, including a number of the Rev C's that people will point to as the Holy Grail/Pre-500 Rectos. He kept a Rev F Dual and a Rev G Triple. He's the one who told me about leaning out a modern Recto to make it sound more like a vintage Recto, which started me onto experimenting.

Anyway... keep and open mind and make the decision for yourself rather than letting other people make it for you.

SD, what do you mean by "leaning out"

Thanks
G
ps, same "yeti" here as over on grail tone.

 

[mightywarlock]

91-92. under 500.

Super tight aggressive hair metal amps with tons of clean Tone and no Buzz in the tone.

Modern is very similar...but has the buzz in the tone.

And they weren't all blackface. Mine is 112, and has a chrome face.

 

[bigangryguitar]

from what I know Mesa used the str-420's in the power section of the early ones and then switched to the newer 430's (ruby 6l6gc-mstr's) which aren't the same. I have a couple quad's of the 420's and they to my ears are about as good as it gets for a 6l6gc tube. Other than that the circuits are supposed to be identical and it's a case of hype like most stuff in amps.

 

[fishyfishfish]

The "Pre-500" Recto is supposed to have or use the leftover transformers from the Mark III series, making them a tighter amp. The number 500 is just used as a reference point, as in the first 500 made, but it could of been 600 or 550 adding more lore to the pre-500 recto story.
There is a interview with Doug West somewhere where he de-bunks the 500/transformer story by saying that the first rectos were aimed at hair metal players that were using modded Marshall's not knowing that grunge was just around the corner. The latter revisions were Mesa's way to stay ahead of the curve of what players wanted.

 

[some dude]

SD, what do you mean by "leaning out"

Thanks
G
ps, same "yeti" here as over on grail tone.

I asked Silverwulf once whether he preferred his F or his G. He said he liked both for different reasons, but in a pinch he could make his G sound like his F and couldn't make his F sound like his G. I've also pieced together a couple ideas off of him, but I don't want to put words into his mouth so I'll just explain what I did myself.

I started experimenting with his F vs G idea, only with an F and a Roadster. I found I could make the Roadster sound like the F by bypassing the FX loop on both amps and reducing the bass and increasing the presence on the Roadster. Conversely, I could run the F's bass full up and not equal what the Roadster was producing with the bass at noon. It's that leaning out of the bottom end that seems to be the trick to making the preamp sound more aggressive, then dialling in presence to taste.

The results aren't identical, and there's obviously some tricks the Rev F can do that the Roadster can't via channel cloning... however it's the kind of differences that don't really stand out unless you're A/Bing the two amps beside each other.

Another tip I got was that you could make an F sound more like a C by cranking up the presence to more extreme settings. Not sure if that one came from Silverwulf or not, but it's fun to experiment with. When I first got a Recto years ago I was told to "scoop" them by putting the treble on zero and using the presence as a treble control, that way you left most of the midrange intact. I don't use them that way, but it's worth experimenting with.

 

[some dude]

The "Pre-500" Recto is supposed to have or use the leftover transformers from the Mark III series, making them a tighter amp. The number 500 is just used as a reference point, as in the first 500 made, but it could of been 600 or 550 adding more lore to the pre-500 recto story.

I have 1292 and it has Mark III transformers in it. I think they lasted until around 2200 or so, then they switched to Mark IV transformers.

Some of the dudes on the Boogie forum have compared a Rev F with Mk III trannys against a Rev F with Mark IV trannys and said they sound more or less the same. They felt the tone changes come from other tweaks.

 

[fluff191]

Just for the record, a few of us folks over at the Boogie Board determined a few years ago via serial number tracking that the Mark III transformers and 'pre-500' configuration (small Mesa logo, leather covering, Serial Loop) actually went past S/N 1300 before having their own dedicated Recto transformers from Schumacher and a parallel loop.

And generally the only difference sonically is the huge amount of presence and total lack of a clean channel in the early revisions (Rev. C through E) versus the final 'classic' 2 channel (Rev. G) Dual Rectifier. I had a Rev. E and apart from the head splitting high end it was capable of, it sounded identical to my regular Rev. G Recto.

The regular 2 Channel Recto's were discontinued in late 1999 or so for the 3 Channel versions. Golden Years = 1992-1999.

Sorry I am a Rectifier nerd.

 

[TX6Strings]

Thanks for all the info guys. I've got a dude selling what he calls an "early 90's" two channel dual rec and asking a kind of steep price. The serial number is R - 011047 so it's obviously not one with a Mark series tranny.

 

[reverymike]

I have #635 with the Mark 3 trannies and I swear it's one of the best amps I've played (I also own a Bogner 101b, SLO, and vintage Marshalls). The Boogie is just fat, organic, rich, killer tone. Hit it with a clean boost for leads, and it's perfect. I run it on the orange channel high gain setting.

 

[fluff191]

Thanks for all the info guys. I've got a dude selling what he calls an "early 90's" two channel dual rec and asking a kind of steep price. The serial number is R - 011047 so it's obviously not one with a Mark series tranny.

S/N 11xxx would be late 90's. Just for reference.

 

[johnpace2]

They say good things about the new "re-born" dual rectos too, right?

 

[locoed]

I don't hear a difference between my heads and rack mount Rectos,the only difference I hear is in one of them has the MKIII transformers.
Alot of it is hype.
I've been using Rectos since they came out,mod a recto the right way and they'll beat any year stock.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the early "blackface" models are the ones people are after from what I understand. Also heard alot of "hype" about the early rackmount rectifiers. Why? well....from what I understand, they were alittle more aggressive, and had a much tighter response/feel I believe. For instance, I believe Testaments "The gathering" was recorded with a rackmount rectifier, and happens to be the best recto tone I've ever heard in Metal music, outside of Nevermores Dead Heart in a Dead World.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gToGTGkJQ4

 

[racerevlon]

91-92. under 500.

Super tight aggressive hair metal amps with tons of clean Tone and no Buzz in the tone.

Modern is very similar...but has the buzz in the tone.

And they weren't all blackface. Mine is 112, and has a chrome face.

FWIW, Rich's Pre-500 is one of the best-sounding amps I've ever heard, and I'm not a Mesa fan at all...