Room acoustics and miking up cabs

[roadifier]

Hey guys, I have started trying to record again, and I am not happy with my results. I am pretty sure it's the room that my cab is in. No matter where I move the mic on the speaker, it sounds way to harsh, or just so mushy that it's hard to listen to. I am recording with an MD 421, a recto with the gain set pretty low and boosted, then to a v30 cab.

I was just wondering if anyone here has any input on the best place they use to mic up their cabs. I am going for a pretty tight sound that isn't TOO gain heavy. I am just getting less than stellar results. I am using a PreSonus USB interface. Any tips on miking up guitar cabs would be much appreciated!

 

[Tone Monster]

Gotta kill the HF reflections. A decent and cheap way is
The use of blankets draped over the cab and mic. Also, put the cab up on a milk crate or something similar. Good luck!

 

[Tone Monster]

Are you recording a 4 x 12?

 

[nevusofota]

Forumite bubbastain did this clip comparing mic placement. Good comparison. Hope he doesn't mind me posting his link. http://tonefinder.com/index.php?section=id&value=12605

 

[roadifier]

Are you recording a 4 x 12?

Yeah, a mesa 4x12

 

[TheMagicEight]

I found - and I'm not an expert - that the best tones I get are with a dynamic close up on axis (I use an MD421 too, same amp and cab) paired with a condenser or ribbon in the room. I "use" the close mic for attack and clarity, and the room mic for warmth and tone.

If you only have the close mic, I found that putting it on axis around the cone edge - and maybe backing off the cab by an inch or two - yields okay results. Again though, not an expert.

 

[lolzgreg]

Hey guys, I have started trying to record again, and I am not happy with my results. I am pretty sure it's the room that my cab is in. No matter where I move the mic on the speaker, it sounds way to harsh, or just so mushy that it's hard to listen to. I am recording with an MD 421, a recto with the gain set pretty low and boosted, then to a v30 cab.

I was just wondering if anyone here has any input on the best place they use to mic up their cabs. I am going for a pretty tight sound that isn't TOO gain heavy. I am just getting less than stellar results. I am using a PreSonus USB interface. Any tips on miking up guitar cabs would be much appreciated!

If it's a newer MD421MkII, that's part of the issue. The newer ones are very fizzy and also a bit flubby. I'd get rid of that microphone and grab a 57.

Move the cabinet around the room to find where it sounds best.

What tubes are in the Recto?

What cabinet?

Cheers,

Greg

 

[iplayloudly]

I found - and I'm not an expert - that the best tones I get are with a dynamic close up on axis (I use an MD421 too, same amp and cab) paired with a condenser or ribbon in the room. I "use" the close mic for attack and clarity, and the room mic for warmth and tone.

Do you not get any phasing issues with this? I would think you would since you have 1 mic close and 1 far away...

 

[TheMagicEight]

I found - and I'm not an expert - that the best tones I get are with a dynamic close up on axis (I use an MD421 too, same amp and cab) paired with a condenser or ribbon in the room. I "use" the close mic for attack and clarity, and the room mic for warmth and tone.

Do you not get any phasing issues with this? I would think you would since you have 1 mic close and 1 far away...

I adjust the time in ProTools. I forgot exactly what it's called, but the plugin allows you to delay time to the ms. I adjust it to where I think it sounds good.

 

[TheMagicEight]

If it's a newer MD421MkII, that's part of the issue. The newer ones are very fizzy and also a bit flubby. I'd get rid of that microphone and grab a 57.

I'm guessing you speak from personal experience, but do you know if any comparison clips have been done?

 

[Kaleiwahea]

For what it's worth, here's my 2 cents. This has helped me improve (imho) my sound tremendously......
Mic's don't lie. They may color a bit, but a mic right in front of your speaker, like it or not, is your tone. We as guitar players set our tone to sound good in relation to where we are. Typically, a few feet away from the amp and a few feet above it. Try sticking your ear right in front of the speaker... sounds way different. Some would say worse. In a recording situation, take 2 mic's and set them "ear distance" apart (7"?, depending how wide your head is), face them towards the amp at whatever height your ears are, and you shgould get a pretty good emulation of what you are hearing. Problem is, unless you can record REAL LOUD, ytour sound pressure level will be low which means poor signal to noise ratio. Man, I sound smart. If you're like most guys, you're playing live more than you're recording so that technique is out of the question. I chose to adjust my tone a little, but more so I learned how to EQ my guitar channel thru the P.A. to get what I like.

SM57 right in front of the speaker...... move it around until you find what you like.
Remember, what sounds good by itself doesn't always sound the same in the mix.
But, what do I know..............

 

[roadifier]

Hey guys, I have started trying to record again, and I am not happy with my results. I am pretty sure it's the room that my cab is in. No matter where I move the mic on the speaker, it sounds way to harsh, or just so mushy that it's hard to listen to. I am recording with an MD 421, a recto with the gain set pretty low and boosted, then to a v30 cab.

I was just wondering if anyone here has any input on the best place they use to mic up their cabs. I am going for a pretty tight sound that isn't TOO gain heavy. I am just getting less than stellar results. I am using a PreSonus USB interface. Any tips on miking up guitar cabs would be much appreciated!

If it's a newer MD421MkII, that's part of the issue. The newer ones are very fizzy and also a bit flubby. I'd get rid of that microphone and grab a 57.

Move the cabinet around the room to find where it sounds best.

What tubes are in the Recto?

What cabinet?

Cheers,

Greg

I have sovtek EL34's in the amp, and a tungsol in v1 and some Chinese tubes in the other spots. I keep my gain and bass low, and my treble around 11:00 with the presence at around 1:00 I boost it so I have it tight. I am using a recto 4x12 or a Randall 4x12, both with V30's. Also, today I got a mark three red stripe that sounds great, so I will try and record that. I alwAys get my amps as tight as they can be, don't use much bass, and I am very conservative with the amount of gain I use.

 

[Audioholic]

The mics don't hear like we do. Its possible that the 421 is not the best mic for your setup. I rarely like only 1 mic, but If I had to pick one mic it would be something like PR30 or PR40, very wide sweet spot and seems to handle the response of guitars well. I didn't really like the 421 all that much on my cabs.

either way though, experimentation is key. And yes, the room will effect your sound, even closer micd. closer to the center yeilds more presence and highs, but less lows and possibly harsh. to much on the cone and it can be dark and not defined enough, I usually start somewhere where the dustcap meets the cone and go from there. I usually have to adjust eq on my cab differently then I may like in the room.

 

[Audioholic]

you should post a clip. and I am sure you know this, but most modern recordings are tracked a few times to thicken up the ryhtm parts. Often a single mic will never sound where it needs to be, but sometimes it can. all depends I guess.

I have spent hours sometimes picking my mics, and moving them around to get the best sound I thought at the time, record, listen back. then adjust if needed...

 

[Milerky2]

I found - and I'm not an expert - that the best tones I get are with a dynamic close up on axis (I use an MD421 too, same amp and cab) paired with a condenser or ribbon in the room. I "use" the close mic for attack and clarity, and the room mic for warmth and tone.

Do you not get any phasing issues with this? I would think you would since you have 1 mic close and 1 far away...

at the church i work at fellow rig-talk member Drucifer is using a Laney head and a marshall 4x12 with celestions and warehouse speakers. I am including pics of the 57 and condensor mic technique I am using.

the trick here is I pull the condensor out of phase along with the distance i pull it away.

this allows me to use the comb filtering created to sit the guitar into the mix better.

it is easier to get the sound right at the source than to fix it in post.

in a recording situation you can shift the mics back and forth in time to adjust the comb filtering to taste, but live i have to get it right. (my console does allow me to set delays per channel as well, but not everyone has that luxury.)

hope this helps!

edit- couldn't upload pics from tablet...

 

[TheMagicEight]

at the church i work at fellow rig-talk member Drucifer is using a Laney head and a marshall 4x12 with celestions and warehouse speakers. I am including pics of the 57 and condensor mic technique I am using.

the trick here is I pull the condensor out of phase along with the distance i pull it away.

this allows me to use the comb filtering created to sit the guitar into the mix better.

it is easier to get the sound right at the source than to fix it in post.

in a recording situation you can shift the mics back and forth in time to adjust the comb filtering to taste, but live i have to get it right. (my console does allow me to set delays per channel as well, but not everyone has that luxury.)

hope this helps!

Drucifer's clips are incredible!

 

[Milerky2]

Pics are in the edit.

 

[roadifier]

you should post a clip. and I am sure you know this, but most modern recordings are tracked a few times to thicken up the ryhtm parts. Often a single mic will never sound where it needs to be, but sometimes it can. all depends I guess.

I have spent hours sometimes picking my mics, and moving them around to get the best sound I thought at the time, record, listen back. then adjust if needed...

I will post a clip of my Mark III tomorrow. With most of my recordings I always double track things and pan them left/right. I am just having trouble getting the sound on any of my recordings to where I want it.

 

[Milerky2]

you should post a clip. and I am sure you know this, but most modern recordings are tracked a few times to thicken up the ryhtm parts. Often a single mic will never sound where it needs to be, but sometimes it can. all depends I guess.

I have spent hours sometimes picking my mics, and moving them around to get the best sound I thought at the time, record, listen back. then adjust if needed...

I will post a clip of my Mark III tomorrow. With most of my recordings I always double track things and pan them left/right. I am just having trouble getting the sound on any of my recordings to where I want it.

take a look at the home recording show podcast. There is some stuff from the last few months regarding similar things, including using Mid-side encoding techniques that can give you width without losing mono definition.

 

[roadifier]

I found - and I'm not an expert - that the best tones I get are with a dynamic close up on axis (I use an MD421 too, same amp and cab) paired with a condenser or ribbon in the room. I "use" the close mic for attack and clarity, and the room mic for warmth and tone.

Do you not get any phasing issues with this? I would think you would since you have 1 mic close and 1 far away...

at the church i work at fellow rig-talk member Drucifer is using a Laney head and a marshall 4x12 with celestions and warehouse speakers. I am including pics of the 57 and condensor mic technique I am using.

the trick here is I pull the condensor out of phase along with the distance i pull it away.

this allows me to use the comb filtering created to sit the guitar into the mix better.

it is easier to get the sound right at the source than to fix it in post.

in a recording situation you can shift the mics back and forth in time to adjust the comb filtering to taste, but live i have to get it right. (my console does allow me to set delays per channel as well, but not everyone has that luxury.)

hope this helps!

edit- couldn't upload pics from tablet...

I will try this tomorrow. I will also try putting my cab in a room that is better than my bedroom for recording My bedroom is just pretty small, and there is not much sound absorption, so the sound bounces around a lot.