Rumored Mesa Mark James Hetfield signature

[Les Zombie]

Or where you're seated in the venue. I was on the first level of seats at Gillette last year and it was fucking great while my former guitar player was a little more than halfway up the stands and said he had to wait a few seconds into each song before he could even tell what song it was.

I seen them alot this past couple years and normally i stay in the same spot all night, but at one of the shows i decided to roam around alot and certain areas sounded great, others not as good, and one spot sounded terrible, it really depends where your standing or seated. Im normally on the floor area, ive also been in the snakepit and that sounds a little different.

Ive also seen them in the days when they used real amps in the 90s and most nights the tones was great. Im not inlove with their live tone the past 15 yrs. I will also say the venue and sound guy makes quite the difference.

 

[IronSean]

I've seen them over twenty times...Open ai sheds, stadiums, arena and even a couple of night club gigs. And yes, on the "cunning stunts" tour they sounded killer. Venue definitely makes a big difference. That said, when they switched to modelers a lot of the "weight" and size of the rhythm tones seemed to evaporate. It just didn't move the same air. Also the top end started to sound brittle and splatty in that very digital kind of way. Some will understand what I'm referring to...Some will not. It's totally ok to have differences of opinions around here. Free Country...Thank God.

This just doesn't make any sense to me though, in venues that large all you're hearing is the PA anyway. The amps would have been back stage mic'd and up front were just some dummy cabs for stage sound.

And once you're micing and listening back to the result that's where people really can't tell the difference between a modeller and an amp in a blind test.

But the key word there is "blind" test. When you know what you're listening to then all sorts of preconceived notions can color what you're hearing.

And further, I thinks Metallica used Matrix power amps into real guitar cabs, which means the actual speakers aren't even being simulated anymore.

I will say the sound Metallica is going for now definitely sounds a little dull at normal listening volumes. At high volumes because of Fletcher-Munson it'll sound fuller, which makes sense given they're playing at stadium volumes. But they're definitely using a tighter, lower gain sound than they used to. Are you sure you're not just comparing the new sound they go for with their older sounds and hearing that difference?

And as for them using it in the studio: I would too if I had all the time and money in the world. James probably just finds it fun. Also the Axe FX III can do 2 amps and 8 IRs, but James has definitely blended much more than that on previous album tones so for recording and all the experimenting he does it's probably fun to use the real amps. The same way owning his classic car collection is probably fun even if he drives something more practical to the store most days.

 

[angelspade]

This just doesn't make any sense to me though, in venues that large all you're hearing is the PA anyway. The amps would have been back stage mic'd and up front were just some dummy cabs for stage sound.

And once you're micing and listening back to the result that's where people really can't tell the difference between a modeller and an amp in a blind test.

But the key word there is "blind" test. When you know what you're listening to then all sorts of preconceived notions can color what you're hearing.

And further, I thinks Metallica used Matrix power amps into real guitar cabs, which means the actual speakers aren't even being simulated anymore.

I will say the sound Metallica is going for now definitely sounds a little dull at normal listening volumes. At high volumes because of Fletcher-Munson it'll sound fuller, which makes sense given they're playing at stadium volumes. But they're definitely using a tighter, lower gain sound than they used to. Are you sure you're not just comparing the new sound they go for with their older sounds and hearing that difference?

And as for them using it in the studio: I would too if I had all the time and money in the world. James probably just finds it fun. Also the Axe FX III can do 2 amps and 8 IRs, but James has definitely blended much more than that on previous album tones so for recording and all the experimenting he does it's probably fun to use the real amps. The same way owning his classic car collection is probably fun even if he drives something more practical to the store most days.

Excellent commentary...But MANY have reported on this forum, and several others a notable difference in the quality of their tone when they switched to modelers. There have been several threads here at this board alone. It is very noticable. particularly to musicians. We can use all the gear knowledge and tech speak we want to explain this away....But it does not sound the same. James' tone has lost the low-mid thump that we typically associate with his live sound (particularly in the palm mutes) and the top end has this strange, unpleasing harshness that reminds me of when a tube amp is biased in crossover distortion...Not good. Below is a rig rundown segment with James' tech when he still had the Mesa / Diezel blend happening (shortly before they switched to Fractal). Forward to the 14:30 mark on the video: That chunk, weight, richness and pleasing top is no longer there....It just isn't. Can we blame modelers 100% for this? Maybe not. I can't demonstrate causations, but I can prove correlation based on timing of the integration of modeling as the primary source of their tone. Again, just my opinion.

 

[RaceU4her]

Let’s just be real, sloppy ass Metallica don’t sound very good live regardless of what they are using, and their studio tones aren’t exactly thrilling these days either.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Excellent commentary...But MANY have reported on this forum, and several others a notable difference in the quality of their tone when they switched to modelers. There have been several threads here at this board alone. It is very noticable. particularly to musicians. We can use all the gear knowledge and tech speak we want to explain this away....But it does not sound the same. James' tone has lost the low-mid thump that we typically associate with his live sound (particularly in the palm mutes) and the top end has this strange, unpleasing harshness that reminds me of when a tube amp is biased in crossover distortion...Not good. Below is a rig rundown segment with James' tech when he still had the Mesa / Diezel blend happening (shortly before they switched to Fractal). Forward to the 14:30 mark on the video: That chunk, weight, richness and pleasing top is no longer there....It just isn't. Can we blame modelers 100% for this? Maybe not. I can't demonstrate causations, but I can prove correlation based on timing of the integration of modeling as the primary source of their tone. Again, just my opinion.

Metallica's shift to bad tone didn't happen when they switched to modelers. It happened before that, when James started blending in the VH4 with his other amps and switched to his Het Set EMGs. That's when his tone went to thin splatty bullshit.

But they switched to Fractals pretty soon after that, and the modelers were set to accurately model the VH4 blended with Marks, and he's still loading his guitars with Het Sets, so surprise surprise, his modeled tone is now accurately modeling his shitty VH4 / Het Set tone.

But because he's using a modeler now, the guitar community puts 100% of the blame for his bad tone on the modelers because it's cool to hate modelers, because real tough alpha male guitar players only play REAL amps or whatever. It's just a bunch of poser nonsense.

 

[angelspade]

Metallica's shift to bad tone didn't happen when they switched to modelers. It happened before that, when James started blending in the VH4 with his other amps and switched to his Het Set EMGs. That's when his tone went to thin splatty bullshit.

But they switched to Fractals pretty soon after that, and the modelers were set to accurately model the VH4 blended with Marks, and he's still loading his guitars with Het Sets, so surprise surprise, his modeled tone is now accurately modeling his shitty VH4 / Het Set tone.

But because he's using a modeler now, the guitar community puts 100% of the blame for his bad tone on the modelers because it's cool to hate modelers, because real tough alpha male guitar players only play REAL amps or whatever. It's just a bunch of poser nonsense.

Interesting opinions...but disagree. But I'm with you on the Het Set pickups. Not a fan of them. His modeled sound does not resemble a VH4 or a Mesa...unfortunately. Also, it's not at all "cool" to hate modelers from what I have seen. In fact it seems it's getting less and less cool to prefer tube amps. Digital continues to gain popularity and the market is shifting to accommodate this trend.

 

[Techdeth]

I agree

It is

 

[Techdeth]

Metallica's shift to bad tone didn't happen when they switched to modelers. It happened before that, when James started blending in the VH4 with his other amps and switched to his Het Set EMGs. That's when his tone went to thin splatty bullshit.

But they switched to Fractals pretty soon after that, and the modelers were set to accurately model the VH4 blended with Marks, and he's still loading his guitars with Het Sets, so surprise surprise, his modeled tone is now accurately modeling his shitty VH4 / Het Set tone.

But because he's using a modeler now, the guitar community puts 100% of the blame for his bad tone on the modelers because it's cool to hate modelers, because real tough alpha male guitar players only play REAL amps or whatever. It's just a bunch of poser nonsense.

Thise kick ups are the true culprit

 

[Techdeth]

Let’s just be real, sloppy ass Metallica don’t sound very good live regardless of what they are using, and their studio tones aren’t exactly thrilling these days either.

It does depend on the night and the songs . Like when I saw them in Denver in 2017 . The live version of wherever I may roam is so good . Even Kirk’s solo . But ya the harmonies are so bad live on the guitars