School me on Soldano FX loops!

[RockyStar]

Why not use a Fryetter Power Station so you can crank the amp and have a loop and have the tone you want AND the effects without going deaf?

 

[rstites]

I wonder how Mike came up with this loop placement. Considering him a great amp builder, this is probably the worst loop ever designed, if it's an afterthought as you say, I get even more puzzled.
Beside of that. If you are not using the loop and it is there, it will not make a lot of difference. If you plug something in it, it will suck tone like a madman, but that's only my 2 cents, like my statement on fixing the loop results in change in tone.

It's far from the worst loop ever designed. It is sub-optimal, but at least it's buffered! A lot of earlier attempts at loops lacked buffering: basically just inserts with no consideration of output and input impedance. The SLO loops is mostly inconvenient when balancing channels and it doesn't work for people wanting to put pedals in the loop. If you run line-level rack effects, it's fine sonically, and that's what it was designed for. There's some loss, but no more than other loops. The real downfall there is the mismatch in channels, which is tough to deal with without an advanced switching system inside the loop - adding more junk to deal with!

IMHO the SLO circuit has it's flaws but it sounds unbelievable as it is. Any SLO I heard "fixed" next to a stock SLO sounded inferior. To me.
I guess "majik" is that pretty fragile balance of flaws and goods and their interaction dancing in the verge of instability in that circuit.

A lot of what you hear with something in the loop is due to the fact that the amp is so clear and articulate otherwise. All loops suck a little tone. Most high gain amps just don't have enough clarity for it to be quite so obvious. I've used mine before with nice rack gear and it works and sounds fine....a little loss of fidelity, but most of the issues were with levels when channel switching.

I ended up just going back to some pedals out front and calling it a day. A lot of this is that SLO's really are more for the barebones player IMO.

Of course, I'm trying to set it up for W/D now after getting active on these forums recently, so I'm not immune from the draw to put effects on it! I'm sure that was the thought process initially. That's why it comes with a DI and what I assume Mike's assumed use would be.

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

 

[godgrinder]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

 

[FourT6and2]

I wonder how Mike came up with this loop placement. Considering him a great amp builder, this is probably the worst loop ever designed, if it's an afterthought as you say, I get even more puzzled.
Beside of that. If you are not using the loop and it is there, it will not make a lot of difference. If you plug something in it, it will suck tone like a madman, but that's only my 2 cents, like my statement on fixing the loop results in change in tone.

It's far from the worst loop ever designed. It is sub-optimal, but at least it's buffered! A lot of earlier attempts at loops lacked buffering: basically just inserts with no consideration of output and input impedance. The SLO loops is mostly inconvenient when balancing channels and it doesn't work for people wanting to put pedals in the loop. If you run line-level rack effects, it's fine sonically, and that's what it was designed for. There's some loss, but no more than other loops. The real downfall there is the mismatch in channels, which is tough to deal with without an advanced switching system inside the loop - adding more junk to deal with!

IMHO the SLO circuit has it's flaws but it sounds unbelievable as it is. Any SLO I heard "fixed" next to a stock SLO sounded inferior. To me.
I guess "majik" is that pretty fragile balance of flaws and goods and their interaction dancing in the verge of instability in that circuit.

A lot of what you hear with something in the loop is due to the fact that the amp is so clear and articulate otherwise. All loops suck a little tone. Most high gain amps just don't have enough clarity for it to be quite so obvious. I've used mine before with nice rack gear and it works and sounds fine....a little loss of fidelity, but most of the issues were with levels when channel switching.

I ended up just going back to some pedals out front and calling it a day. A lot of this is that SLO's really are more for the barebones player IMO.

Of course, I'm trying to set it up for W/D now after getting active on these forums recently, so I'm not immune from the draw to put effects on it! I'm sure that was the thought process initially. That's why it comes with a DI and what I assume Mike's assumed use would be.

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

This is SLO FX loop myth number 2. It's not that the loop "sucks tone". Or that the loop is hot. It's that the loop is placed before the tone stack. So any time based effects get distorted. It's no different than placing pedals in front of the amp. Now that sound has its place. But the point of a loop is to be able to get effects farther down the chain after the tone stack or after the preamp. Even simple non buffered insert loops accomplish this. The point is to be able to have a choice. If I want that distorted delay sound I'll put the pedal in front of the amp. Is the SLO's loop the worst I've ever seen? No. that would be the Bad Cat Hot Cat I had.

 

[gokart mozart]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

 

[FourT6and2]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

 

[rstites]

It's that the loop is placed before the tone stack. So any time based effects get distorted.

You have me curious. I'll try it later. It's been a number of years since I used the loop. I don't recall any issues with distorted delay in the loop. The only issue I recall is the mismatch in volumes when channel switching.

 

[rstites]

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I thought the bypass mod removed the loop, including the extra tube. That should be the same as completely lacking the loop. Anyone have a schematic of the SLO sans loop? I'm curious now. If I'm right there, then a negligible draw on B+ and heaters is all that extra tube would do.....and you could yank the thing out when bypassed.

Btw, I appreciate the post. If there was a difference it was very subtle, but then I'm listening to it on my work speakers.......so, there could be a huge difference in the room!

 

[FourT6and2]

It's that the loop is placed before the tone stack. So any time based effects get distorted.

You have me curious. I'll try it later. It's been a number of years since I used the loop. I don't recall any issues with distorted delay in the loop. The only issue I recall is the mismatch in volumes when channel switching.

You can't get clean repeats on the SLO. And you can't hear the repeats while you are playing (I'm talking about on the OD channel). It's no different than putting a delay pedal in front of the amp.

 

[FourT6and2]

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I thought the bypass mod removed the loop, including the extra tube.

I've seen a few different ways of doing it. One takes most everything out and bypasses the extra tube stage. Another way does not. I think have some schematics somewhere. I'll look.

EDIT:

Here is one way

Here's another:

 

[AmpliFIRE]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I definitely hear how the tone differs in that clip. It's thinner sounding with the loop engaged.

This difference is pretty striking in person.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I'm glad the SLO does nothing for me because that loop issue would drive me nuts. $4299 for an amp with a shitty loop? Fak Dat sheet man.

 

[FourT6and2]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I definitely hear how the tone differs in that clip. It's thinner sounding with the loop engaged.

This difference is pretty striking in person.

I hear zero difference in that clip. Absolutely none. And I'm listening on decent cans. But most of Lasse's clips sound the same anyway lol, regardless of amp...

I just don't have golden ears, man. Maybe I should drink more mojo juice.

 

[AmpliFIRE]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I definitely hear how the tone differs in that clip. It's thinner sounding with the loop engaged.

This difference is pretty striking in person.

I hear zero difference in that clip. Absolutely none. And I'm listening on decent cans. But most of Lasse's clips sound the same anyway lol, regardless of amp...

I just don't have golden ears, man. Maybe I should drink more mojo juice.

Maybe you should try listening through good headphones instead of cans

 

[Mr. Willy]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I definitely hear how the tone differs in that clip. It's thinner sounding with the loop engaged.

This difference is pretty striking in person.

I hear zero difference in that clip. Absolutely none. And I'm listening on decent cans. But most of Lasse's clips sound the same anyway lol, regardless of amp...

I just don't have golden ears, man. Maybe I should drink more mojo juice.

I'm listening on iPad speaker and can hear the difference.

 

[FourT6and2]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I definitely hear how the tone differs in that clip. It's thinner sounding with the loop engaged.

This difference is pretty striking in person.

I hear zero difference in that clip. Absolutely none. And I'm listening on decent cans. But most of Lasse's clips sound the same anyway lol, regardless of amp...

I just don't have golden ears, man. Maybe I should drink more mojo juice.

I'm listening on iPad speaker and can hear the difference.

I do long-range competitive shooting. And I'm a member of a shooting forum. We were discussing Laser Rangefinders. The kind you use to laze an object and it tells you how far away it is. The thing is, we shoot out at long distances, like 1200 yards. And our targets are about 10" in size. And the rangefinder we were talking about have a 7x magnification. That's not a lot. Less than most binoculars. There are a few guys on that forum who claim they can see a 10" metal plate at 1,000 - 1,2000 yards away. And they can hit that 10" plate with a glorified laser pointer. Me? I can't do that. I can't see a 10" circle that's 12 football fields away. But these guys claim they can. I guess I just don't have the eyes they do.

What's my point?

I don't hear a difference in that clip that's worth mentioning. But you say you do. I don't doubt that you do. But I definitely don't have the ears for that.

Let's pretend there is an actual difference. Is it enough of difference that a twist of the treble or presence knob can't make up for it?

 

[godgrinder]

I do long-range competitive shooting.

But I definitely don't have the ears for that.

^
Just putting 2 and 2 together haha.

I can hear a slight difference between the 2. But not a make-or-break difference.

 

[Mr. Willy]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I definitely hear how the tone differs in that clip. It's thinner sounding with the loop engaged.

This difference is pretty striking in person.

I hear zero difference in that clip. Absolutely none. And I'm listening on decent cans. But most of Lasse's clips sound the same anyway lol, regardless of amp...

I just don't have golden ears, man. Maybe I should drink more mojo juice.

I'm listening on iPad speaker and can hear the difference.

I do long-range competitive shooting. And I'm a member of a shooting forum. We were discussing Laser Rangefinders. The kind you use to laze an object and it tells you how far away it is. The thing is, we shoot out at long distances, like 1200 yards. And our targets are about 10" in size. And the rangefinder we were talking about have a 7x magnification. That's not a lot. Less than most binoculars. There are a few guys on that forum who claim they can see a 10" metal plate at 1,000 - 1,2000 yards away. And they can hit that 10" plate with a glorified laser pointer. Me? I can't do that. I can't see a 10" circle that's 12 football fields away. But these guys claim they can. I guess I just don't have the eyes they do.

What's my point?

I don't hear a difference in that clip that's worth mentioning. But you say you do. I don't doubt that you do. But I definitely don't have the ears for that.

Let's pretend there is an actual difference. Is it enough of difference that a twist of the treble or presence knob can't make up for it?

I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Yes, I hear a difference. Is it enough for me to send my SLO to get the amp modded to take out the loop? Based on this clip, no. But if I were standing in the room and the difference were dramatic, then I probably would consider it. I'm not going to over analyze it.

 

[AmpliFIRE]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I definitely hear how the tone differs in that clip. It's thinner sounding with the loop engaged.

This difference is pretty striking in person.

I hear zero difference in that clip. Absolutely none. And I'm listening on decent cans. But most of Lasse's clips sound the same anyway lol, regardless of amp...

I just don't have golden ears, man. Maybe I should drink more mojo juice.

I'm listening on iPad speaker and can hear the difference.

I do long-range competitive shooting. And I'm a member of a shooting forum. We were discussing Laser Rangefinders. The kind you use to laze an object and it tells you how far away it is. The thing is, we shoot out at long distances, like 1200 yards. And our targets are about 10" in size. And the rangefinder we were talking about have a 7x magnification. That's not a lot. Less than most binoculars. There are a few guys on that forum who claim they can see a 10" metal plate at 1,000 - 1,2000 yards away. And they can hit that 10" plate with a glorified laser pointer. Me? I can't do that. I can't see a 10" circle that's 12 football fields away. But these guys claim they can. I guess I just don't have the eyes they do.

What's my point?

I don't hear a difference in that clip that's worth mentioning. But you say you do. I don't doubt that you do. But I definitely don't have the ears for that.

Let's pretend there is an actual difference. Is it enough of difference that a twist of the treble or presence knob can't make up for it?

Nope...and that's the real issue. It's a voicing change and a simple knob twist won't address it. I sold
My SLO after a few weeks of trying to get it to sound good when using the loop. Nothing worked for me so I gave up.

 

[SLOgriff]

I have thought about putting in the loop-bypass switch. I've heard the rumor that completely removing the loop improves the tone too. No idea, as I've never heard on without it, but I can believe it'd be noticeable.

My ears can't tell a difference from the YT clip...

Exactly! That's the point I'm making. Loop or no loop. It isn't gonna change the core sound of the amp all that much. Although I think the amp had a simple bypass mid. The looo tube stage is still in the circuit. But I've heard an SLO that had no loop whatsoever and it does sound slightly different.

I definitely hear how the tone differs in that clip. It's thinner sounding with the loop engaged.

This difference is pretty striking in person.

I hear zero difference in that clip. Absolutely none. And I'm listening on decent cans. But most of Lasse's clips sound the same anyway lol, regardless of amp...

I just don't have golden ears, man. Maybe I should drink more mojo juice.

I'm listening on iPad speaker and can hear the difference.

I do long-range competitive shooting. And I'm a member of a shooting forum. We were discussing Laser Rangefinders. The kind you use to laze an object and it tells you how far away it is. The thing is, we shoot out at long distances, like 1200 yards. And our targets are about 10" in size. And the rangefinder we were talking about have a 7x magnification. That's not a lot. Less than most binoculars. There are a few guys on that forum who claim they can see a 10" metal plate at 1,000 - 1,2000 yards away. And they can hit that 10" plate with a glorified laser pointer. Me? I can't do that. I can't see a 10" circle that's 12 football fields away. But these guys claim they can. I guess I just don't have the eyes they do.

What's my point?

I don't hear a difference in that clip that's worth mentioning. But you say you do. I don't doubt that you do. But I definitely don't have the ears for that.

Let's pretend there is an actual difference. Is it enough of difference that a twist of the treble or presence knob can't make up for it?

I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Yes, I hear a difference. Is it enough for me to send my SLO to get the amp modded to take out the loop? Based on this clip, no. But if I were standing in the room and the difference were dramatic, then I probably would consider it. I'm not going to over analyze it.

It's easy to ruffle his feathers...he's the Soldano expert and he's quite sure his opinion is the truth and to challenge him is futile. Chimes in on every SLO thread....and seems to always turn into a negative, nit-picky,...the SLO is flawed and I know best, post fest.


Mike feel's the SLO is perfect the way it is and will never change it. The SLO is one hell of an amp! It's not for everyone, but it's the muscle car of the amplifier world.