peterc52
Well-known member
Still a noob at effects loop 
How is the right way to set the volume on send and return ? How do you do it??
How is the right way to set the volume on send and return ? How do you do it??
BeZo
Well-known member
It all depends. Are you running rack gear or pedals? Use the send to match whatever gear is in the loop, and adjust the return to compensate. Sometimes you have to boost into rack gear and cut the return. Sometimes you need to cut to go into pedals and boost on return. It all depends on what you are using.
I used to just jump the loop on my old Rivera Knucklehead and use the send and return knobs like an attenuator. It added a tube and acted as a master volume.
I used to just jump the loop on my old Rivera Knucklehead and use the send and return knobs like an attenuator. It added a tube and acted as a master volume.
70 Mach 1
Well-known member
i never used them but i think you just balance them to taste
311boogieman
Well-known member
Yeah. It depends on what you are trying to do and what amp/pedals you have.
For example, on my Splawn I would go Send > Loop pedals > Loop Volume (pot box) > Return - the idea here is that you want the volume control after the loop pedals and before the loop return. Another example would be Send > Loop Volume > Return (like in the pic below). This set up specifically used to crank the power section and channel volume of a non master volume controlled amp, and then tame that tone back down to ear safe volumes.
Another amp example, on my Dual Rectifier, it has a Level control on the back to control the level coming out of the preamp and before the power amp. Because this amp is a channel and master volume controlled amp, if you are using the loop, (even if just a patch cable) you have the benefit of your normal channel volume, then the Send Level control on the back, and then the "Loop Master" on the front panel. This is how I have mine set up along with a MX10 and a NS2. Complete control of an others hard to control amp.
I hope all that came out right
What amp(s) do you have specifically Peter and what are you trying to do. IIRC - you have some killer gear
Ex 1
Ex 2
(this pic was taken before I added the MX10 and NS2 to the loop but it show the 'patching' technique. I was patching the loop back when it was parallel before the serial loop mod.) (I can't imagine running this amp without the Loop control, EQ and NS2).
For example, on my Splawn I would go Send > Loop pedals > Loop Volume (pot box) > Return - the idea here is that you want the volume control after the loop pedals and before the loop return. Another example would be Send > Loop Volume > Return (like in the pic below). This set up specifically used to crank the power section and channel volume of a non master volume controlled amp, and then tame that tone back down to ear safe volumes.
Another amp example, on my Dual Rectifier, it has a Level control on the back to control the level coming out of the preamp and before the power amp. Because this amp is a channel and master volume controlled amp, if you are using the loop, (even if just a patch cable) you have the benefit of your normal channel volume, then the Send Level control on the back, and then the "Loop Master" on the front panel. This is how I have mine set up along with a MX10 and a NS2. Complete control of an others hard to control amp.
I hope all that came out right
What amp(s) do you have specifically Peter and what are you trying to do. IIRC - you have some killer gear
Ex 1
Ex 2
(this pic was taken before I added the MX10 and NS2 to the loop but it show the 'patching' technique. I was patching the loop back when it was parallel before the serial loop mod.) (I can't imagine running this amp without the Loop control, EQ and NS2).
Last edited:
peterc52
Well-known member
Here I’m using a fractal VP4 into a Wizard HR 
napalmdeath
Well-known member
On the amp, or pedal? How's the loop laid out? Is there a level control? Switch? Specifics, please..
peterc52
Well-known member
Pots for send level and return level.
I do switch the loop in and out via the VP4. So the loop is only engaged when I’m on a preset with effects from loop
I do switch the loop in and out via the VP4. So the loop is only engaged when I’m on a preset with effects from loop
Rackman
Well-known member
Not so hot it clips or distorts the input of the effect... but reasonably hot within that limit to keep the noise floor low.
Generally the total gain between the send and receive should be unity so that if you "effect" is just a cable, the loop is equally loud on/off.
Generally the total gain between the send and receive should be unity so that if you "effect" is just a cable, the loop is equally loud on/off.
Alpha Stryke
Well-known member
Serial FX loop : for pedals [-10db]
Parallel FX loop : for rack gear [+4db]
Time based & modulation FX in da loop.
Everything else in front of the amp.
Parallel FX loop : for rack gear [+4db]
Time based & modulation FX in da loop.
Everything else in front of the amp.
fusedbrain
Well-known member
Jeezus, Wizard loops.... not the greatest arrangement, but for God's sake, never say a bad word to Rick about his fukking loops, or you're gonna get an earful.
Anyway, you would have to confirm with Rick via email about the placement of the loop in the HR, but I know on the MC II, the loop is after the master vol, and there is another gain stage before the loop send.
So, with the MC II at least, that means you need to establish your overall volume level for the situation, then set the send level to get a proper signal into your fx without clipping, then adjust the return level for unity gain. Yeah, its a pain in the ass, but it maintains maximum flexibility for any professional situation, which is how Rick designs his amps.
Good luck!!
Edited for spelling.
Anyway, you would have to confirm with Rick via email about the placement of the loop in the HR, but I know on the MC II, the loop is after the master vol, and there is another gain stage before the loop send.
So, with the MC II at least, that means you need to establish your overall volume level for the situation, then set the send level to get a proper signal into your fx without clipping, then adjust the return level for unity gain. Yeah, its a pain in the ass, but it maintains maximum flexibility for any professional situation, which is how Rick designs his amps.
Good luck!!
Edited for spelling.
311boogieman
Well-known member
I ran this through Google Gemini and now I want your setup Peter
Running a Fractal VP4 into the effects loop of a Wizard Hell Razor is an absolute dream setup for purists who want pristine, world-class time-based effects without sacrificing the legendary, raw analog punch of a premium boutique tube amplifier.
Assuming a typo in your question—meaning the Fractal VP4 (Fractal's dedicated virtual pedalboard compact unit) into a Wizard Hell Razor—here is exactly what that experience is like: [1, 2, 3]
## Studio-Quality Processing Meets Brutal Analog Punch
Wizard amplifiers are famous for their hyper-fast transient response, massive transformer punch, and unforgiving clarity. Introducing a multi-effects unit into a Wizard's loop can often introduce "tone suck" or digital compression.
* Zero Latency & Transparency: The [Fractal VP4](https://shop.fractalaudio.com/) uses top-tier, low-latency converters. When placed in the Hell Razor's loop, it leaves your core tube dynamics completely intact. [2, 4, 5, 6]
* No Digitized Preamp: Because you are running purely in the loop, your physical guitar signal hits the Hell Razor's tube preamp completely analog and raw, preserving that signature Wizard growl.
## Ambient and Modulation Perfection
Because the Hell Razor is a high-gain monster, running modulation and time-based effects before the amp turns your tone into a muddy mess. In the effects loop, the VP4 shines:
* Primal Reverbs and Delays: You get the exact same algorithms used in the flagship Axe-Fx III. Lush plates, pristine digital delays, and deep halls sit perfectly behind the Hell Razor's heavy distortion without washing it out. [5, 7, 8]
* Studio-Grade EQs: Wizard amps have highly interactive tone stacks. Using a Parametric EQ block in the VP4 inside the loop allows you to act as a post-preamp mastering engineer, letting you sculpt or boost your solo mid-frequencies with surgical precision.
* Flawless Modulations: Jet-engine flangers, wide choruses, and lush phasers process the already-distorted preamp signal, giving you a clean, studio-polished 80s or 90s rock sound. [2, 9]
## Rig Integration & Control
The VP4 acts as a highly compact, rugged command center. [2, 10]
* 4-Cable Method (4CM) Option: If you want to use the VP4's incredibly accurate drive pedal models (like Tube Screamers or Treble Boosters) to push the front of the Hell Razor, you can wire it via the 4-Cable Method. This routes some effects before the amp input and others into the loop. [2, 10, 11, 12]
* MIDI Capabilities: You can use the VP4's MIDI out to simultaneously switch channels on your amp or external gear (if your Wizard setup utilizes a MIDI switcher), changing your amp channel and your digital effects layout with one foot click. [2]
## The Caveat
The VP4 allows a maximum of four simultaneous effect blocks. For most tube amp players using an effects loop, this is more than enough (e.g., Gate -> Chorus -> Delay -> Reverb). However, if you are someone who likes to stack multiple pitch shifters, delays, filters, and compressors all at once, you might find the 4-block limit restrictive. [2, 12, 13, 14]
To help taylor this, are you planning to run a traditional loop setup (effects only after the preamp), or are you looking to use the 4-cable method to place overdrive models in front of the Wizard as well? [2]
Running a Fractal VP4 into the effects loop of a Wizard Hell Razor is an absolute dream setup for purists who want pristine, world-class time-based effects without sacrificing the legendary, raw analog punch of a premium boutique tube amplifier.
Assuming a typo in your question—meaning the Fractal VP4 (Fractal's dedicated virtual pedalboard compact unit) into a Wizard Hell Razor—here is exactly what that experience is like: [1, 2, 3]
## Studio-Quality Processing Meets Brutal Analog Punch
Wizard amplifiers are famous for their hyper-fast transient response, massive transformer punch, and unforgiving clarity. Introducing a multi-effects unit into a Wizard's loop can often introduce "tone suck" or digital compression.
* Zero Latency & Transparency: The [Fractal VP4](https://shop.fractalaudio.com/) uses top-tier, low-latency converters. When placed in the Hell Razor's loop, it leaves your core tube dynamics completely intact. [2, 4, 5, 6]
* No Digitized Preamp: Because you are running purely in the loop, your physical guitar signal hits the Hell Razor's tube preamp completely analog and raw, preserving that signature Wizard growl.
## Ambient and Modulation Perfection
Because the Hell Razor is a high-gain monster, running modulation and time-based effects before the amp turns your tone into a muddy mess. In the effects loop, the VP4 shines:
* Primal Reverbs and Delays: You get the exact same algorithms used in the flagship Axe-Fx III. Lush plates, pristine digital delays, and deep halls sit perfectly behind the Hell Razor's heavy distortion without washing it out. [5, 7, 8]
* Studio-Grade EQs: Wizard amps have highly interactive tone stacks. Using a Parametric EQ block in the VP4 inside the loop allows you to act as a post-preamp mastering engineer, letting you sculpt or boost your solo mid-frequencies with surgical precision.
* Flawless Modulations: Jet-engine flangers, wide choruses, and lush phasers process the already-distorted preamp signal, giving you a clean, studio-polished 80s or 90s rock sound. [2, 9]
## Rig Integration & Control
The VP4 acts as a highly compact, rugged command center. [2, 10]
* 4-Cable Method (4CM) Option: If you want to use the VP4's incredibly accurate drive pedal models (like Tube Screamers or Treble Boosters) to push the front of the Hell Razor, you can wire it via the 4-Cable Method. This routes some effects before the amp input and others into the loop. [2, 10, 11, 12]
* MIDI Capabilities: You can use the VP4's MIDI out to simultaneously switch channels on your amp or external gear (if your Wizard setup utilizes a MIDI switcher), changing your amp channel and your digital effects layout with one foot click. [2]
## The Caveat
The VP4 allows a maximum of four simultaneous effect blocks. For most tube amp players using an effects loop, this is more than enough (e.g., Gate -> Chorus -> Delay -> Reverb). However, if you are someone who likes to stack multiple pitch shifters, delays, filters, and compressors all at once, you might find the 4-block limit restrictive. [2, 12, 13, 14]
To help taylor this, are you planning to run a traditional loop setup (effects only after the preamp), or are you looking to use the 4-cable method to place overdrive models in front of the Wizard as well? [2]
Greazygeo
Well-known member
My MC 1 can’t be any easier…set send and return at noon which is unity……I use the return control as the overall volume.
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
I just use my old axe efx II for all my effects with my HRHere I’m using a fractal VP4 into a Wizard HR
peterc52
Well-known member
How do you know if the send volume is hitting hard? Simply by hearing after artifact sound?
311boogieman
Well-known member
It will squeal like a pig
napalmdeath
Well-known member
Sounds like you need to set your levels on the VP4. Read the manual, I'm sure it'll spell it out.
