Signal mixer question

[ACShreds]

So im re-doing my rig and am looking into buying a mixer so i can split my dry signal with the wet signal as im using a G major 2 in my fx loop signal path and want to maintain as much of my Mark V's original tone as possible. Im looking at either the RJM line Mixer of the Suhr Mini Mix 2. Im sure both units are great and i have no doubts that either would operate flawlessly but im curious as to the effect mixers can have on tone especially if im using not just time based effects. My amps head is serial and i know that technically using a mixer essentially makes it into parallel. Because of this does it have any effect on say pitch effects or modulation effects that are used in the effects loop signal? I've heard that when using an amp with a parallel loop that pitch, mod, and tremolo based effects dont really come out right or something like that. Anyone have any experience with either of these units and well they can improve tone when added to a larger rig. Im planning on having my Mark V, a G major 2 in the loop with an ISP pro rack g. If anyone has any advice i'd really appreciate it.

 

[protoplasma]

I believe the effect you're referring to is "comb filtering". Essentially, there will be a slight phase difference between the signals due to the inherent latency of effects processors. When you sum two signals, one not delayed (true dry signal running outside the processor) and one delayed (signal from your effects processor), you end up with two signals that are slightly phase shifted from one another. The audible comb filtering will vary depending on effect path, and may not be noticeable at all if the effected signal is different enough from the original.

You DEFINITELY want to kill the dry signal through the processor as that will be the signal most noticeably phase shifted from your true dry signal, and will have the most audible effect.

Running a true W/D rig with separate power amps won't have this problem due to all the other variables -- separate power amps, speakers, etc -- the effect is not as significant as if you summed the signals back together perfectly with a line mixer.

 

[ACShreds]

I believe the effect you're referring to is "comb filtering". Essentially, there will be a slight phase difference between the signals due to the inherent latency of effects processors. When you sum two signals, one not delayed (true dry signal running outside the processor) and one delayed (signal from your effects processor), you end up with two signals that are slightly phase shifted from one another. The audible comb filtering will vary depending on effect path, and may not be noticeable at all if the effected signal is different enough from the original.

You DEFINITELY want to kill the dry signal through the processor as that will be the signal most noticeably phase shifted from your true dry signal, and will have the most audible effect.

Running a true W/D rig with separate power amps won't have this problem due to all the other variables -- separate power amps, speakers, etc -- the effect is not as significant as if you summed the signals back together perfectly with a line mixer.

So would you not recommend using one if its in a mono rig situation? I've watched a bunch of Mark Day vids and pretty much all of the rigs in them have the mini mix and sound great.

 

[protoplasma]

IMO, if you try running things in parallel with just a simple line mixer you will lose something, rather than gaining. With a mono rig I prefer to keep things simple. I don't imagine the G-Major would completely suck the life out of your dry tone to merit the need for running an external dry path.

The main issue with splitting the signal and re-summing with a simple line mixer is you lose the ability to do a variable wet/dry mix of your final tone. I find that with just about every effect I use in a simple rig, I vary the wet/dry mix to taste. Sometimes you may want just a little delay buried in the mix and lots of dry tone, other times you may want all wet tone and no dry, as with some pitch-based effects, etc.

Splitting and using the line mixer basically prevents you from varying your dry tone in any way. You could use a loop switcher to kill the dry altogether, but I think that's just needlessly complicating things.

Are you having issues with your dry tone coming through the G-Major? If so, maybe you have something else going on -- perhaps a loop level issue, programming/setup problem, etc....