Smooth dark richness

The grunge sounds is a lot more about lower compression and big dynamic changes, rather than specific amp tones. If you're mostly looking for the Seattle grunge sound, these guys were buying what they could afford at pawn shops that the 80s shredders were selling off cheap, but amp wise they were all over the place.
 
CoreyW said:
The grunge sounds is a lot more about lower compression and big dynamic changes, rather than specific amp tones. If you're mostly looking for the Seattle grunge sound, these guys were buying what they could afford at pawn shops that the 80s shredders were selling off cheap, but amp wise they were all over the place.
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I understand. I run open amps because i hate high compression amps.

I am not trying to replicate the tones. Moreso cover it with a great amp. The naked has an awesome tone. The bigmax is on my list also.

I think if i were just trying to get a cheap amp to do their stuff, a prs mt100 would be great. But i dont buy cheaply made amps
 
Get the real deal. Get a Naylor.

Or, for a real authentic Grunge thing get a vintage Tremoverb, or a used RI 90s Dual Rec. I'm hearing its REALLY good.
 
Smash said:
I understand. I run open amps because i hate high compression amps.

I am not trying to replicate the tones. Moreso cover it with a great amp. The naked has an awesome tone. The bigmax is on my list also.

I think if i were just trying to get a cheap amp to do their stuff, a prs mt100 would be great. But i dont buy cheaply made amps
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It wasnt meant it in that way, more so... the tones were not from cheap amps, but good stuff that was sold to pawn shops for cheap since the flavor of the decade was rack gear and heavily processed tones.

PJ were marshalls, AIC were high gain marshall influenced builds, Sound garden and Candlebox were Mesa's, Nirvana was pretty much a Boss DS1.

Unlike the 80's were Marshall's ruled everything, Grunge was more about the massive dynamic changes. A solid 2 channel amp with a good clean but a big hit you in the face dirt channel or a good clean amp with a good distortion pedal that would give you that slap in the face gain stage jump.
 
Smash said:
I understand. I run open amps because i hate high compression amps.

I am not trying to replicate the tones. Moreso cover it with a great amp. The naked has an awesome tone. The bigmax is on my list also.

I think if i were just trying to get a cheap amp to do their stuff, a prs mt100 would be great. But i dont buy cheaply made amps
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Dude I tried the MT 100 at Sweetwater and was blown away by it . It’s fucking killer
 
Smash said:
I am kind of flirting with the 90s grunge sound. I am kind of wondering similarities, differences and general thoughts of friedman naked and diezel big max
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Very different amps with common DNA, both based on 70s Marshalls (2203 - Naked / 2204 - Big Max). The preamps, however, are different.
  • The Naked is a Naylor Super Drive 60 preamp (pretty much as-is, with a few small tweaks from Dave)
  • The Big Max is a Marshall 2204-style preamp (with more substantial tweaks from Peter)
Both are very dark, smooth amps but they end up sounding quite different when played in the room. I recall the Big Max having way more midrange than the Naked, but the Naked has more "oomph." The Diezel will do the "kerrang" Marshall thing surprisingly well but it never sounds anemic. Think the JEL50 if it were voiced darker and thicker, but with the ability to cut when needed.

The Big Max takes pedals way better than the Naked. Both are high gain amps, but neither has a ton of gain. They have a little more gain than an old Plexi, and both are 3 12AX7 preamp tubes. Neither Adam Jones nor Billy Howerdel is an uber-high gain player, although it sounds like that on the records. You can get more gain and brighten them up a bit -- especially the Big Max -- if you put Chinese 12AX7B's in it. I also recommend replacing the KT77's in the Big Max with EL34's, ideally EL34 STR-B. The best thing about the Big Max is that it's a gnarly Diezel-Marshall hybrid that has all the beef and thick midrange of a VH4 with the cut and kerrang of an old Marshall.

If you're looking for "Adam Jones in a Box" and don't want to spend $12k on a Blueface VH4 the Big Max is as close as you're gonna get. The Naked isn't exactly "Billy Howerdel in a Box" but you can cop those tones easily. I just absolutely love the sound of the Naked. It's the idealized sound in my head. I currently have a super-sick one, a 1981 Marshall 2204 with the Naked mod, that sound absolutely killer. Even Dave himself said that this was an "exceptionally good sounding one." Everyone who hears it in the room goes "whoa, that sounds awesome." It just has it.

Either one will be good for 90s stuff, since that is a very dark era for amps. The obvious choice is a Dual Rectifier but if you're like me and that isn't your thing, these amps might be.

PS - I'm interested in buying another Big Max at some point; that's how good of an amp it is.

Hope that helps!
 
Also, one last thing: if you have cash to burn, I'd suggest buying a Blueface VH4. I know that's crazy but damn, I really love mine. Again, one of those "idealized tone" situations for me. It's an amp I just keep finding myself returning to and I do not regret buying it for a second.

That said, you can get a '99-'01 VH4 for a fraction of the price and they sound 90%+ the same. Just keep your eyes peeled and you'll find them for $3500-5000, half or more of the price of a Blueface.
 
hellzington said:
Also, one last thing: if you have cash to burn, I'd suggest buying a Blueface VH4. I know that's crazy but damn, I really love mine. Again, one of those "idealized tone" situations for me. It's an amp I just keep finding myself returning to and I do not regret buying it for a second.

That said, you can get a '99-'01 VH4 for a fraction of the price and they sound 90%+ the same. Just keep your eyes peeled and you'll find them for $3500-5000, half or more of the price of a Blueface.
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Man my 2017 vh4 blows people away even after playing my Larry and Hermansons and wizards . Channel 3 sounds like the 10000 days tone so much I can’t unhear it loo
Ever
 
Techdeth said:
Man my 2017 vh4 blows people away even after playing my Larry and Hermansons and wizards . Channel 3 sounds like the 10000 days tone so much I can’t unhear it loo
Ever
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This is absolutely possible. I have used the Blueface model vs the Silverface model in the AxeFX and you can absolutely make them sound very, very close when mic'd. The settings are wildly different, but you can absolutely do it. In the room, who knows. Much harder to make two amps sound the same in the room. Recorded tones are quite different.
 
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