So I have a question for you guys.

[Jeff Hilligan]

IMO it comes down to labor time to build and the iron and steel. Everything else is pretty much equal. Make your own transformers..not likely, so you pay for them and pay dearly when shipped. That's the big build cost.

 

[IndyWS6]

I don't know for sure, so I'm speculating, but this would be my guess:
* Electrical parts sourced in bulk to minimize piece price and suppliers pressured to lower costs (it's not a "dick" move, it's standard business practice)
* Structural components sourced from low-cost countries (chassis / headshell)
* Boards stuffed and "flyout" wires soldered in countries with low-cost labor and then exported
* Final assembly here in the US ("Assembled in the U.S.A.") by non-union, skilled labor
* Profit margin vs volume. I suspect that PRS sells (or expects to sell) much larger quantities of their products, so they don't need to make as much per unit for it to be a profitable venture

Like I said, I'm guessing, but PRS is big enough to exert pressure on suppliers to minimize cost and maximize profits. They also have the resources to scout labor markets that can provide the quality and quantity they need at a desirable cost.

As an example, the company I work for wouldn't hesitate to change suppliers to save 1 cent per unit for a component (assuming it passes all the same quality standards and requirements). When you use 10,000 of that component per day in the manufacturing facility, that adds up. I realize they aren't making 10,000 amps a day, but the concept still applies...

 

[glip22]

PRS has only their hands in the pot. Others have several people's hands in the pot. That is your answer why. Their business. I am just answering your question OP. And yes, Assembled in the US, Handwired in the US, etc. means just that. It does not mean other components, stuffed PCB's, etc. are not from China., etc.. Some States have very strict laws about what can be written.

 

[Vrad]

Well, it seems to be "Assembled in the USA" rather than Made in USA. Not sure what that means or how that relates to how those other amps are built, but it seems like it could potentially keep costs down a bit.

Some components are imports, but come on man... PRS even uses Sozo Caps in some of the more vintage amps. You're going to tell me that warrants the difference in price? It's a whole fucking amp of a price difference between the 2.

No, that´s not at all what I´m saying.

It sure looks like an odd distinction to make that it´s "assembled in USA" instead of the regular "made in USA" if only components are imported, though. No one does that as far as I know, so I´m guessing some work is done overseas. I could be totally 100% wrong, though.

http://www.nspa.com/documents/AssembledvsMadeinUSA.pdf

 

[rottingcorpse]

As stated earlier,it's what the market will bear. Freidman stuff is very hot and popular right now,and for good reason as it sounds great and it has a following. Will they become as ubiquitous as the 6505 or recto? Doubtful,but one can hope as then the used market will make them more accessible to the masses. It appears the Archon has a better chance of that happening.

If you're the new hot stripper at the club....you gotta get what you can,while you can. Your regulars will keep coming back,and spread the word about you. But once everyone has had a taste,many will move on to the next newer younger hotter stripper. Men are as fickle as women in most cases. Chris Rock said it best, "you're only as faithful as your options".

But damn if I don't love the Archon gut shots. And many of those I trust have raved about it...only to flip them later. Still makes me want one. And I think it's a pretty amp with lots of great clips out there.

 

[Dave L]

Well, it seems to be "Assembled in the USA" rather than Made in USA. Not sure what that means or how that relates to how those other amps are built, but it seems like it could potentially keep costs down a bit.

Some components are imports, but come on man... PRS even uses Sozo Caps in some of the more vintage amps. You're going to tell me that warrants the difference in price? It's a whole fucking amp of a price difference between the 2.

No, that´s not at all what I´m saying.

It sure looks like an odd distinction to make that it´s "assembled in USA" instead of the regular "made in USA" if only components are imported, though. No one does that as far as I know, so I´m guessing some work is done overseas. I could be totally 100% wrong, though.

http://www.nspa.com/documents/AssembledvsMadeinUSA.pdf

Thanks for digging up some facts! It still leaves open a window for work of some sort being done overseas, though, but it was nice to see the real definition. I wasn´t aware that Made in the USA as a label was on its way out like that, since most anything electronic has imported components.

 

[Vrad]

Well, it seems to be "Assembled in the USA" rather than Made in USA. Not sure what that means or how that relates to how those other amps are built, but it seems like it could potentially keep costs down a bit.

Some components are imports, but come on man... PRS even uses Sozo Caps in some of the more vintage amps. You're going to tell me that warrants the difference in price? It's a whole fucking amp of a price difference between the 2.

No, that´s not at all what I´m saying.

It sure looks like an odd distinction to make that it´s "assembled in USA" instead of the regular "made in USA" if only components are imported, though. No one does that as far as I know, so I´m guessing some work is done overseas. I could be totally 100% wrong, though.

http://www.nspa.com/documents/AssembledvsMadeinUSA.pdf

Thanks for digging up some facts! It still leaves open a window for work of some sort being done overseas, though, but it was nice to see the real definition. I wasn´t aware that Made in the USA as a label was on its way out like that, since most anything electronic has imported components.

Sure, but as a consumer does any of that really make a difference to the final product? It could be all the parts are imports, it could 2 parts are imported. Does it matter when you have an amp that's built like a brick shithouse, and sounds killer? LOL

 

[Mailman1971]

[No message]

 

[Mailman1971]

The Archon is bad ass!
It was my #1 for a long time.
No weak sauce there.

 

[Vrad]

I played an Archon once. Was severely underwhelmed. It's worth $800 to me.

You didn't run a $2000 cable to it? Maybe that was the issue...

 

[Dave L]

Well, it seems to be "Assembled in the USA" rather than Made in USA. Not sure what that means or how that relates to how those other amps are built, but it seems like it could potentially keep costs down a bit.

Some components are imports, but come on man... PRS even uses Sozo Caps in some of the more vintage amps. You're going to tell me that warrants the difference in price? It's a whole fucking amp of a price difference between the 2.

No, that´s not at all what I´m saying.

It sure looks like an odd distinction to make that it´s "assembled in USA" instead of the regular "made in USA" if only components are imported, though. No one does that as far as I know, so I´m guessing some work is done overseas. I could be totally 100% wrong, though.

http://www.nspa.com/documents/AssembledvsMadeinUSA.pdf

Thanks for digging up some facts! It still leaves open a window for work of some sort being done overseas, though, but it was nice to see the real definition. I wasn´t aware that Made in the USA as a label was on its way out like that, since most anything electronic has imported components.

Sure, but as a consumer does any of that really make a difference to the final product? It could be all the parts are imports, it could 2 parts are imported. Does it matter when you have an amp that's built like a brick shithouse, and sounds killer? LOL

Does not matter one bit But it we´re talking about why amp X is cheaper or more expensive than amp Y it´s worth speculating about, for sure.

 

[Vrad]

Well, it seems to be "Assembled in the USA" rather than Made in USA. Not sure what that means or how that relates to how those other amps are built, but it seems like it could potentially keep costs down a bit.

Some components are imports, but come on man... PRS even uses Sozo Caps in some of the more vintage amps. You're going to tell me that warrants the difference in price? It's a whole fucking amp of a price difference between the 2.

No, that´s not at all what I´m saying.

It sure looks like an odd distinction to make that it´s "assembled in USA" instead of the regular "made in USA" if only components are imported, though. No one does that as far as I know, so I´m guessing some work is done overseas. I could be totally 100% wrong, though.

http://www.nspa.com/documents/AssembledvsMadeinUSA.pdf

Thanks for digging up some facts! It still leaves open a window for work of some sort being done overseas, though, but it was nice to see the real definition. I wasn´t aware that Made in the USA as a label was on its way out like that, since most anything electronic has imported components.

Sure, but as a consumer does any of that really make a difference to the final product? It could be all the parts are imports, it could 2 parts are imported. Does it matter when you have an amp that's built like a brick shithouse, and sounds killer? LOL

Does not matter one bit But it we´re talking about why amp X is cheaper or more expensive than amp Y it´s worth speculating about, for sure.

That was a generic "you" not you per se.
Doesn't matter to me either.. I also have my theories as to "Why..." But I want to see what other people think.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

" Assembled in the USA" is a very loose statement but hey, doesn't change the quality any. Wouldn't surprise me if they are doing what Ceriatone does and have offshore workers wire up the boards and then they fit them into the chassis back in the USA. The chassis are probably drilled outside the U.S as well.

I guess this is the age old argument, why does a Y car cost 5 times what Z car does when they use seemingly similar engines and share features? The differences between amps are even more minimal. I would think that certain builders can command a certain price and people will buy it so why would they price it lower. Another thing to consider is the cost of manufacturing including labour and parts if truly being built in the USA like Soldano and Friedman.

All in all, PTP is easier to mod but PCB is nice and clean. I never have seen why PTP is any more of a selling point unless tube sockets and POTS are also PCB mounted. In that case, my preference would be PTP. The turret board doesn't add any more mojo.

 

[shredhead7]

That looks pretty. I recently was turned on to them from Emil Westler (sp?). I love his style and he was raving about them. The clips I've heard makes me very curious and the fact that they are PTP is pretty awesome.

As to assembled versus made, I assume it to mean that the PTP part is probably put together in China, boxed and shipped over here, where the final assembly is done at PRS. The labor intensive work being done overseas.

 

[psychodave]

I'm sure some of you guys will get all uppity about all this. But meh... I couldn't care less.

Here goes...
I got this PRS Archon. I just opened it up and it's entirely PTP-wired. So if PRS can make a PTP amp, that's 100 Watts and sounds awesome for under $2k new, why can't other manufacturers do that? A 100 watt Friedman is $3500-4000. Do any of you feel like that's kinda dumb pricing?

Please enlighten me.

Look at Mesa Boogie. They have multi channel amps...made in the USA selling for $2,500. That's a $1000 less than those you mention. Sound better too.

 

[Vrad]

I'm sure some of you guys will get all uppity about all this. But meh... I couldn't care less.

Here goes...
I got this PRS Archon. I just opened it up and it's entirely PTP-wired. So if PRS can make a PTP amp, that's 100 Watts and sounds awesome for under $2k new, why can't other manufacturers do that? A 100 watt Friedman is $3500-4000. Do any of you feel like that's kinda dumb pricing?

Please enlighten me.

Look at Mesa Boogie. They have multi channel amps...made in the USA selling for $2,500. That's a $1000 less than those you mention. Sound better too.

I know...
But I'd hardly say they sound better. They do however sound different.

 

[psychodave]

" Assembled in the USA" is a very loose statement but hey, doesn't change the quality any. Wouldn't surprise me if they are doing what Ceriatone does and have offshore workers wire up the boards and then they fit them into the chassis back in the USA. The chassis are probably drilled outside the U.S as well.

I've heard other amp manufacturers do this as well. It's interesting.

Not Friedman though. They said they make everything 100% in California. All board assemblies, wiring, cabinet making, etc. I would have to assume all of their new foot pedals are 100% made and assembled in America too. They did say they only have their footswitch made in China. Nothing else. Kudos for keeping it in the USA.

 

[311boogieman]

^ Edit: Yeah, could be. That's great if they do. Still not sure I could justify the price myself.

" Assembled in the USA" is a very loose statement but hey, doesn't change the quality any. Wouldn't surprise me if they are doing what Ceriatone does and have offshore workers wire up the boards and then they fit them into the chassis back in the USA. The chassis are probably drilled outside the U.S as well.

I guess this is the age old argument, why does a Y car cost 5 times what Z car does when they use seemingly similar engines and share features? The differences between amps are even more minimal. I would think that certain builders can command a certain price and people will buy it so why would they price it lower. Another thing to consider is the cost of manufacturing including labour and parts if truly being built in the USA like Soldano and Friedman.

All in all, PTP is easier to mod but PCB is nice and clean. I never have seen why PTP is any more of a selling point unless tube sockets and POTS are also PCB mounted. In that case, my preference would be PTP. The turret board doesn't add any more mojo.

I came here basically to say this except that I like the stripper analogy better than the car analogy

Friedman web site says 'hand wired in the USA'. Does that mean everything is 100% made in the US? I'm guessing most manufacturers, including Splawn and Friedman, source caps and resistors from overseas. But those are the least expensive parts of the amp. Things like labor and transformers and tubes are your higher cost items. I could be wrong on that though - I've never built an amp.

Otherwise just posting in an interesting thread

 

[Crunchtime]

Maybe PRS would just rather make 100 quarters than 5 dollars.

 

[Vrad]

^ Edit: Yeah, could be. That's great if they do. Still not sure I could justify the price myself.

" Assembled in the USA" is a very loose statement but hey, doesn't change the quality any. Wouldn't surprise me if they are doing what Ceriatone does and have offshore workers wire up the boards and then they fit them into the chassis back in the USA. The chassis are probably drilled outside the U.S as well.

I guess this is the age old argument, why does a Y car cost 5 times what Z car does when they use seemingly similar engines and share features? The differences between amps are even more minimal. I would think that certain builders can command a certain price and people will buy it so why would they price it lower. Another thing to consider is the cost of manufacturing including labour and parts if truly being built in the USA like Soldano and Friedman.

All in all, PTP is easier to mod but PCB is nice and clean. I never have seen why PTP is any more of a selling point unless tube sockets and POTS are also PCB mounted. In that case, my preference would be PTP. The turret board doesn't add any more mojo.

I came here basically to say this except that I like the stripper analogy better than the car analogy

Friedman web site says 'hand wired in the USA'. Does that mean everything is 100% made in the US? I'm guessing most manufacturers, including Splawn and Friedman, source caps and resistors from overseas. But those are the least expensive parts of the amp. Things like labor and transformers and tubes are your higher cost items. I could be wrong on that though - I've never built an amp.

Otherwise just posting in an interesting thread

Yeah does say that. I just checked the site. That made me LOL