So I have a question for you guys.

[xzyryabx]

I'd say it's part economies of scale (PRS is bigger so can source components cheaper and can be happy w/ less profit per amp since they expect to sell more units), part hype (Friedman builds great amps but in fairly limited quantities, so a larger percentage of their customers are pro musicians that give the brand exposure which in turn makes all the dentist and lawyer guitarists [as well as the rich amateur guitarists like Steve_K] willing to pay for them), part price-gouging (fuck it, we're popular now, we make enough amps to make $$$ but not enough that the market is saturated [and therefore supply/demand keeps the price high] ).
As long as ppl keep buying at those prices, then the prices will NOT go down. You can bet the farm that if Friedman (or any other manufacturer in a similar position) lose their clientele to a cheaper competitor then they will damn sure either lower their prices or shutter the company.

 

[HilltopExplosion]

I bought one.. and paid the cash.. because of the name. I was looking for an old plexi at first, but the price on working amps was through the roof. Marshall came out with a handwired reissue, and the YJM at the time, but I wouldn't put out the bucks.. There were a few bad reviews, so I didn't pull the trigger.

I saw on Austin City Limits, I can't remember the name of the guy or band, just killer blues, rock, but the tone he had was killer, and in the background, there was a Friedman amp. I said "There it is, and who the hell is Friedman". I saw a few more bands using amps with awesome tone, like I was looking for, and I kept seeing Friedman. I did some research on all of the Plexi style amps that were being made and modded, and kept coming across Bray, Metro, and Friedman. After a few youtube clips, I bought one.

Is it worth the asking price? Well, I play it everyday. So to me... yes. I'm not saying it's the "best" or knocking any other amps, It's just a tone I really like, and the amp is versatile, and I enjoy it. If I played an Archon, and liked it better, I would have bought it, but the clip you did is the first time I ever heard one.

 

[Rick Lee]

I'm waiting for the used Friedmans to start coming down in price. I'm in no rush.

I'd be chapped if I had just sprung full retail for a new Suhr SL-68 a month before they slashed their prices by $500. Maybe Friedman will do the same. That stuff eventually impacts the used market.

I got my modded 1959SLP RI (non-HW) used at the local GC for $1350 out the door and it sounds un-effing-real. I just can't imagine paying full retail for a new one. Who buys a new SLO unless they want some mods done by Mike? Used ones sound just as good, have a lifetime warranty and are $1400ish less than new.

 

[sleewell2]

they sell for that much because people pay that much. why leave money on the table?

 

[hatrick00]

those are VERY different amps my friend... it's like comparing a camero to a ferarri... seriously.

 

[Umyeahyeahyeah]

Not to ruffle anyone's feathers or knock any amps that people like...but If it's $2k, $3k, or $3699 or more I don't see that as a big obstacle to purchasing. Whatever it is? doesn't matter. Maybe I have to save for a month or so? I guess it helps not having a spouse or GF, that tells me how to spend my money. I always seem to be telling friends that are looking at purchases but will get grief from the ole lady... F that shit dude, buy the shit you want...you're working 50-60+ hours a week. Whether it's guitars, amps, guns, cars, riflescopes or whatever. ...and they say something like: yeah, but she'll KILL me...I just make the astonished face and smh...then take a swill of my beer.

I don't know maybe it's more this?

 

[Jeff Hilligan]

I did in depth market study. Once u pass 2300 your market shrinks from over 34% to about 11% market share of viable purchasers.

 

[Chris6870]

those are VERY different amps my friend... it's like comparing a camero to a ferarri... seriously.

The only thing a Friedman amp has in common with a Ferrari is they both start with the letter F.

 

[chadprsman]

I'm guessing Friedman's costs have changed with different production situations. But there are other costs associated with growth...

 

[sleewell2]

everyone keeps talking about friedman but there are many builders (wizard, metropoulos, suhr, fuchs, bludo, bogner, henning, etc) charging those prices and people are buying them. if they weren't buying them then the market would be saying they are overpriced but really that is not happening.

play what you can afford, focus on having fun and stop worrying about if other amps are overpriced.

 

[spliffsperlunk]

I'm sure some of you guys will get all uppity about all this. But meh... I couldn't care less.

Here goes...
I got this PRS Archon. I just opened it up and it's entirely PTP-wired. So if PRS can make a PTP amp, that's 100 Watts and sounds awesome for under $2k new, why can't other manufacturers do that? A 100 watt Friedman is $3500-4000. Do any of you feel like that's kinda dumb pricing?

Please enlighten me.

I think the question to be asked is if Dave Freidman can remain successful selling his amplifiers for 3600.00 why would he lower the price regardless of cost to produce ?

As long as he can sell amplifiers it makes sense to Maintain the price point not only for financial success but to maintain Current owners value and a perceived desirability of the brand .

 

[spliffsperlunk]

everyone keeps talking about friedman but there are many builders (wizard, metropoulos, suhr, fuchs, bludo, bogner, henning, etc) charging those prices and people are buying them. if they weren't buying them then the market would be saying they are overpriced but really that is not happening.

play what you can afford, focus on having fun and stop worrying about if other amps are overpriced.

 

[Racerxrated]

everyone keeps talking about friedman but there are many builders (wizard, metropoulos, suhr, fuchs, bludo, bogner, henning, etc) charging those prices and people are buying them. if they weren't buying them then the market would be saying they are overpriced but really that is not happening.

play what you can afford, focus on having fun and stop worrying about if other amps are overpriced.

Yup. Supply and demand. I won't pay that, and I agree with Psychodave in the value of the Mesa products when compared to others. But, if that's not your tone, then it doesn't matter. Friedman and other high priced amps are selling, why would they lower prices?

 

[LPHeaven68]

I'm guessing Friedman's costs have changed with different production situations. If they're selling at the same price now, as when they were made in smaller volume and higher cost, more profit.

This plus everything else anyone ever speculated on. Revenue is important, gross profit is more relevant.
Insert golfer analogy "here". Dudes, this is business 101 and Mr Friedman is pretty damn good at it period end of story. Once you understand this, these types of questions stopped getting asked.

 

[Umyeahyeahyeah]

Don't be chintzy

chintz·y


/ˈCHin(t)sē/

British
of, like, or decorated with chintz.
"brighten the room with fresh paint and chintzy fabrics"

•North Americaninformal
brightly colorful but gaudy and tasteless.

synonyms: cheap, cheesy, shoddy, low-grade, low-end, second-rate, third-rate, kitsch, kitschy, tacky, trashy, gimcrack
"Marty's family gave us these chintzy end tables"


informal
cheap and of poor quality.


•miserly.
"a chintzy salary increase"



buy what you want and tell the ole lady to F off....

 

[shreder75]

So, how small a company is friedman? You can get them via musicians friend, and they're always in stock at sweetwater.

Anyway, they're more expensive because people will pay that price. Simple. Same reason a new slo is $4400.

As for me? No amp I've heard in clips, live, or recorded is worth that much of my money.

 

[mooncobra]

Nothing makes sense these days. When a Billy Blades Amp is selling for more then a used Wizard or Soldano SLO or Diezel... just thought I would post this in here then in the Billy Blades amp ad.

that's insane in my book. I wouldn't give a squirt of piss for a blades. I would never do a thing that helped or contributed to Blades. The stuff he has said and done over the years is just ridiculous. He blatantly copied other mod guys circuits, then went and said those guys are assholes for copying Jose, yet he did the same thing. Hypocrite. Plus, he started attacking guys on the forums that never said or did a thing to him. Like when he started ripping on Friedman, that was nuts. its shocking to me that the blades is listed at 2800. I remember before his amps came out, he said they were going to cost half as much as the other amp builders because their amps were over priced rip offs and the average guitar player cant afford them. now he does the same thing. The hypocrisy is astounding.

 

[Deleted member 8761]

There is more to it. Besides the R&D and production costs, you also have to factor in the distribution chain. Every link in the chain needs their margin. I questioned Mesa about their pricing policy of the new JP2C in Europe ($ 2,500 in USA vs $ 4,300 in Europe for consumers). They were pretty quick to respond and explained a lot, which is cool. I'll keep the lengthy discussion that ensued to myself, but I sensed some agitation about my question and in the end it was like: "don't buy it, if you think it is not worth it". Still a cool company, but I guess they have an old fashioned business model like some other companies. As said above, it boils down to supply and demand. I'm really hesitant to pay that amount of money for an amp. You would think that with the bankruptcy of many dealers over here, the companies would think twice (Unless you intend to remain small and operate in a niche market, or don't give a rat's ass about a global market). Luckily, there is enough competition and we have some good alternatives (Diezel, anyone?). Somehow the PRS Archon is priced reasonably well here too.

 

[Vrad]

I just found a business article about PRS. Seems to be a well run company.

 

[Dave L]

There is more to it. Besides the R&D and production costs, you also have to factor in the distribution chain. Every link in the chain needs their margin. I questioned Mesa about their pricing policy of the new JP2C in Europe ($ 2,500 in USA vs $ 4,300 in Europe for consumers). They were pretty quick to respond and explained a lot, which is cool. I'll keep the lengthy discussion that ensued to myself, but I sensed some agitation about my question and in the end it was like: "don't buy it, if you think it is not worth it". Still a cool company, but I guess they have an old fashioned business model like some other companies. As said above, it boils down to supply and demand. I'm really hesitant to pay that amount of money for an amp. You would think that with the bankruptcy of many dealers over here, the companies would think twice (Unless you intend to remain small and operate in a niche market, or don't give a rat's ass about a global market). Luckily, there is enough competition and we have some good alternatives (Diezel, anyone?). Somehow the PRS Archon is priced reasonably well here too.

I´ve always imagined that Mesa Boogie is by far the US manufacturer that - for whatever reason - ends up proportionally more expensive than the others once the amps get to Europe. Is a new Roadking more expensive than a Friedman BE100 or a Bogner Ecstacy 101 over there in the states?