Solid state power amp for wet/dry rig

[moltenmetalburn]

How about a vht 2150?

ha, yea Ive done a bunch of multi setups for fun with that thing, TWO 2150s however, priceless.

i would do the fryette power station. then you also have all the other features and remain tube.

 

[7 Stringer]

.......

 

[psychodave]

I'd stack my HH V200 up against a V800 any day, I agree they sound awesome, no argument. But if you're not playing an arena I don't think you need anything that big for W/D/W, that's all I was saying.

As far as the MOSVALVE poweramp, you would have to compare for similar wattage. Cantrell used those with his Bogner Fish preamps live and he sounded massive.

Fair enough. IMO, solid state power amps need to have a lot of watts to sound good....otherwise they lack headroom. That's why I love the V800. It has massive headroom at all volumes. It doesn't have to be run loud to sound good.

 

[Zachman]

I think a lot are missing the point... I want my would state amp to sound good as well as amplify. I've tried a lot of solid state power amps and all of them, except for the HH V800 have never has the balls to keep up. They tend to sound thin compared to the original "dry" sound. Keep in mind my "wet" cabinets also are setup to pass "dry" sound as well. I also use a Mess Boogie Strategy 400 to color my wet cabs and add extra umph to my sound.

Note that I haven't tried any Matrix power amps. I was close to buying one, but wasn't convinced it would be better than my HH's and resale on them is terrible. lol

How often do you lug this set up around? How portable is it? *Edit* I just looked for one of these on eBay and found one for sale. My back hurt just looking at it! Also $2000!! I don't care how good it sounds, that's way, way more than I wanna spend.

Can't speak for Dave, but I have gigged a TON w/ my w/d/w rigs over the past 16 years. Before that, it was mostly stereo.

Trucks w/ hydraulic lift gates, and roadies are AWESOME! and YES, I've had to do it by myself a few times.

 

[Racerxrated]

I have to lug a Mark 2C+ combo, 8 space SKB rack, pedal board, 2 4X12s and 2 guitars. Compared to previous gigs its an extra cab and the small rack. Worth it though.

 

[7 Stringer]

Ok, I need to re phrase my post.

My signal chain for the WDW goes like this:

Suhr ISO line out ->
-> in G S system set to kill dry ->stereo out to L/R input of Carvin power amp ->
L/R wet speakers.

Witch line mixer would be better (RJM,Suhr,CAE) to incorporate some dry signal into the wet cabs?

I would need one with a level control for the dry tone? The Suhr does not have a level control, how does one adjust the amount of dry tone going out?

Last time i ran dry in the wet, it was through the effects processor, thats why it lost its punch and power, might had some phasing issues too. Sucked.

There is a Suhr mini mix II for sale, was gonna buy it but just saw there's no level control

Thanks for the guidance.

Chris

 

[Zachman]

Ok, I need to re phrase my post.

My signal chain for the WDW goes like this:

Suhr ISO line out ->
-> in G S system set to kill dry ->stereo out to L/R input of Carvin power amp ->
L/R wet speakers.

Witch line mixer would be better (RJM,Suhr,CAE) to incorporate some dry signal into the wet cabs?

I would need one with a level control for the dry tone? The Suhr does not have a level control, how does one adjust the amount of dry tone going out?

Last time i ran dry in the wet, it was through the effects processor, thats why it lost its punch and power, might had some phasing issues too. Sucked.

There is a Suhr mini mix II for sale, was gonna buy it but just saw there's no level control

Thanks for the guidance.

Chris

I would want at least 3 channels (one for the DRY, one for the Left, and one for the Right channel of the G-System) to work for your wd/d/wd setup, since you're only using 1 stereo fx unit, you don't need a ton of channels to 'mix', BUT I'd like to suggest planning for future growth, so as to avoid a stumbling block requiring you to completely rewire everything if you decide you want to add the next newest hip unit into the equation, and spending more $$ than you needed to or spend time rewiring everything unnecessarily.

Also, IF you are using the G-System using a 4cm, then a switch routing system may then be in order to maximize the results.

 

[7 Stringer]

Ok, I need to re phrase my post.

My signal chain for the WDW goes like this:

Suhr ISO line out ->
-> in G S system set to kill dry ->stereo out to L/R input of Carvin power amp ->
L/R wet speakers.

Witch line mixer would be better (RJM,Suhr,CAE) to incorporate some dry signal into the wet cabs?

I would need one with a level control for the dry tone? The Suhr does not have a level control, how does one adjust the amount of dry tone going out?

Last time i ran dry in the wet, it was through the effects processor, thats why it lost its punch and power, might had some phasing issues too. Sucked.

There is a Suhr mini mix II for sale, was gonna buy it but just saw there's no level control

Thanks for the guidance.

Chris

I would want at least 3 channels (one for the DRY, one for the Left, and one for the Right channel of the G-System) to work for your wd/d/wd setup, since you're only using 1 stereo fx unit, you don't need a ton of channels to 'mix', BUT I'd like to suggest planning for future growth, so as to avoid a stumbling block requiring you to completely rewire everything if you decide you want to add the next newest hip unit into the equation, and spending more $$ than you needed to or spend time rewiring everything unnecessarily.

Also, IF you are using the G-System using a 4cm, then a switch routing system may then be in order to maximize the results.

I am not using the 4cm, but I do have an RJM RG16, witch I use to switch channels and a couple loops for EQ's and a gate. I do have an H9 I might incorporate at some point. So I have that covered for future growth.

The Suhr seems too limited, the RJM might do the trick and the CAE, while expensive, would be the better choice.

I have two setups I might wanna convert, the basement rig would be more basic and not incorporate future devices, so just a mini mix witch is capable of mixing in dry signal would be ok. so how does one combine dry signal into wet with a mixer with no level control???

 

[Zachman]

Ok, I need to re phrase my post.

My signal chain for the WDW goes like this:

Suhr ISO line out ->
-> in G S system set to kill dry ->stereo out to L/R input of Carvin power amp ->
L/R wet speakers.

Witch line mixer would be better (RJM,Suhr,CAE) to incorporate some dry signal into the wet cabs?

I would need one with a level control for the dry tone? The Suhr does not have a level control, how does one adjust the amount of dry tone going out?

Last time i ran dry in the wet, it was through the effects processor, thats why it lost its punch and power, might had some phasing issues too. Sucked.

There is a Suhr mini mix II for sale, was gonna buy it but just saw there's no level control

Thanks for the guidance.

Chris

I would want at least 3 channels (one for the DRY, one for the Left, and one for the Right channel of the G-System) to work for your wd/d/wd setup, since you're only using 1 stereo fx unit, you don't need a ton of channels to 'mix', BUT I'd like to suggest planning for future growth, so as to avoid a stumbling block requiring you to completely rewire everything if you decide you want to add the next newest hip unit into the equation, and spending more $$ than you needed to or spend time rewiring everything unnecessarily.

Also, IF you are using the G-System using a 4cm, then a switch routing system may then be in order to maximize the results.

I am not using the 4cm, but I do have an RJM RG16, witch I use to switch channels and a couple loops for EQ's and a gate. I do have an H9 I might incorporate at some point. So I have that covered for future growth.

The Suhr seems too limited, the RJM might do the trick and the CAE, while expensive, would be the better choice.

I have two setups I might wanna convert, the basement rig would be more basic and not incorporate future devices, so just a mini mix witch is capable of mixing in dry signal would be ok. so how does one combine dry signal into wet with a mixer with no level control???

I suppose there are a few ways to approach that... You'd have to set the levels for unity gain, and adjust the fx mix internally within the fx unit, then send to, or you could insert a Volume pedal for the line of DRY signal, then send to the mixer, and adjust in real time the mixer out mix by limiting the input, to reflect your intended 'blend'. It's a similar approach to the one that finally drove me over the edge to just do it without cutting corners. ALWAYS having to adjust levels depending on how loud I was playing, as that affects how much line signal is being sent to the processors.

Here is a video of Bradshaw discussing how my rig is configured, and it may prove useful in providing some ideas for you to consider about how you may choose to approach things in the future.

These are the Block diagrams that he's referring to in the video

My Amp Selector has the adjustable Line sends tapped off of the LOAD signal that feeds the cab, for each selected amp.

The Left, and Right Outputs on the Switching System Interface front panel, are what I send to the input of the Stereo Power Amp, which feeds the Wet Cabs

Some GREAT reading here:

http://customaudioelectronics.com/faq

 

[7 Stringer]

Ok, I need to re phrase my post.

My signal chain for the WDW goes like this:

Suhr ISO line out ->
-> in G S system set to kill dry ->stereo out to L/R input of Carvin power amp ->
L/R wet speakers.

Witch line mixer would be better (RJM,Suhr,CAE) to incorporate some dry signal into the wet cabs?

I would need one with a level control for the dry tone? The Suhr does not have a level control, how does one adjust the amount of dry tone going out?

Last time i ran dry in the wet, it was through the effects processor, thats why it lost its punch and power, might had some phasing issues too. Sucked.

There is a Suhr mini mix II for sale, was gonna buy it but just saw there's no level control

Thanks for the guidance.

Chris

I would want at least 3 channels (one for the DRY, one for the Left, and one for the Right channel of the G-System) to work for your wd/d/wd setup, since you're only using 1 stereo fx unit, you don't need a ton of channels to 'mix', BUT I'd like to suggest planning for future growth, so as to avoid a stumbling block requiring you to completely rewire everything if you decide you want to add the next newest hip unit into the equation, and spending more $$ than you needed to or spend time rewiring everything unnecessarily.

Also, IF you are using the G-System using a 4cm, then a switch routing system may then be in order to maximize the results.

I am not using the 4cm, but I do have an RJM RG16, witch I use to switch channels and a couple loops for EQ's and a gate. I do have an H9 I might incorporate at some point. So I have that covered for future growth.

The Suhr seems too limited, the RJM might do the trick and the CAE, while expensive, would be the better choice.

I have two setups I might wanna convert, the basement rig would be more basic and not incorporate future devices, so just a mini mix witch is capable of mixing in dry signal would be ok. so how does one combine dry signal into wet with a mixer with no level control???

I suppose there are a few ways to approach that... You'd have to set the levels for unity gain, and adjust the fx mix internally within the fx unit, then send to, or you could insert a Volume pedal for the line of DRY signal, then send to the mixer, and adjust in real time the mixer out mix by limiting the input, to reflect your intended 'blend'. It's a similar approach to the one that finally drove me over the edge to just do it without cutting corners. ALWAYS having to adjust levels depending on how loud I was playing, as that affects how much line signal is being sent to the processors.

Here is a video of Bradshaw discussing how my rig is configured, and it may prove useful in providing some ideas for you to consider about how you may choose to approach things in the future.

These are the Block diagrams that he's referring to in the video

My Amp Selector has the adjustable Line sends tapped off of the LOAD signal that feeds the cab, for each selected amp.

The Left, and Right Outputs on the Switching System Interface front panel, are what I send to the input of the Stereo Power Amp, which feeds the Wet Cabs

Some GREAT reading here:

http://customaudioelectronics.com/faq

God damn Zach, that is a crazy system. Thanks for posting all this, I am a bit overwhelmed by all the signal routing going on here. I will need to study it a bit.

I wouldn't want a volume pedal approach for my setup, I am more of a set and forget. I want a knob to adjust the dry feed in and out, gradually. So his line mixer looks capable of that, and room to spare. A bit expensive though for my need to feed some dry in the wet.

I will mingle all this for a bit. Lol.

Thanks again for the insight.

Chris

 

[paulyc]

I'd stack my HH V200 up against a V800 any day, I agree they sound awesome, no argument. But if you're not playing an arena I don't think you need anything that big for W/D/W, that's all I was saying.

As far as the MOSVALVE poweramp, you would have to compare for similar wattage. Cantrell used those with his Bogner Fish preamps live and he sounded massive.

Fair enough. IMO, solid state power amps need to have a lot of watts to sound good....otherwise they lack headroom. That's why I love the V800. It has massive headroom at all volumes. It doesn't have to be run loud to sound good.

No Argument there Dave

But you do realize that the V800 is 400 watts per side into a 2 ohm load, and that rated output diminishes by half every time the ohm load is doubled, so if you're running a 16 ohm cab on each side...

I wired my wet 2x12 cabs to 4 ohms, as low as I could go for use with my V200 (100 watts/side at 2 ohms)

 

[Zachman]

Ok, I need to re phrase my post.

My signal chain for the WDW goes like this:

Suhr ISO line out ->
-> in G S system set to kill dry ->stereo out to L/R input of Carvin power amp ->
L/R wet speakers.

Witch line mixer would be better (RJM,Suhr,CAE) to incorporate some dry signal into the wet cabs?

I would need one with a level control for the dry tone? The Suhr does not have a level control, how does one adjust the amount of dry tone going out?

Last time i ran dry in the wet, it was through the effects processor, thats why it lost its punch and power, might had some phasing issues too. Sucked.

There is a Suhr mini mix II for sale, was gonna buy it but just saw there's no level control

Thanks for the guidance.

Chris

I would want at least 3 channels (one for the DRY, one for the Left, and one for the Right channel of the G-System) to work for your wd/d/wd setup, since you're only using 1 stereo fx unit, you don't need a ton of channels to 'mix', BUT I'd like to suggest planning for future growth, so as to avoid a stumbling block requiring you to completely rewire everything if you decide you want to add the next newest hip unit into the equation, and spending more $$ than you needed to or spend time rewiring everything unnecessarily.

Also, IF you are using the G-System using a 4cm, then a switch routing system may then be in order to maximize the results.

I am not using the 4cm, but I do have an RJM RG16, witch I use to switch channels and a couple loops for EQ's and a gate. I do have an H9 I might incorporate at some point. So I have that covered for future growth.

The Suhr seems too limited, the RJM might do the trick and the CAE, while expensive, would be the better choice.

I have two setups I might wanna convert, the basement rig would be more basic and not incorporate future devices, so just a mini mix witch is capable of mixing in dry signal would be ok. so how does one combine dry signal into wet with a mixer with no level control???

I suppose there are a few ways to approach that... You'd have to set the levels for unity gain, and adjust the fx mix internally within the fx unit, then send to, or you could insert a Volume pedal for the line of DRY signal, then send to the mixer, and adjust in real time the mixer out mix by limiting the input, to reflect your intended 'blend'. It's a similar approach to the one that finally drove me over the edge to just do it without cutting corners. ALWAYS having to adjust levels depending on how loud I was playing, as that affects how much line signal is being sent to the processors.

Here is a video of Bradshaw discussing how my rig is configured, and it may prove useful in providing some ideas for you to consider about how you may choose to approach things in the future.

These are the Block diagrams that he's referring to in the video

My Amp Selector has the adjustable Line sends tapped off of the LOAD signal that feeds the cab, for each selected amp.

The Left, and Right Outputs on the Switching System Interface front panel, are what I send to the input of the Stereo Power Amp, which feeds the Wet Cabs

Some GREAT reading here:

http://customaudioelectronics.com/faq

God damn Zach, that is a crazy system. Thanks for posting all this, I am a bit overwhelmed by all the signal routing going on here. I will need to study it a bit.

I wouldn't want a volume pedal approach for my setup, I am more of a set and forget. I want a knob to adjust the dry feed in and out, gradually. So his line mixer looks capable of that, and room to spare. A bit expensive though for my need to feed some dry in the wet.

I will mingle all this for a bit. Lol.

Thanks again for the insight.

Chris

Right on Chris.


I studied all this stuff for a good long while before I decided on a final rig design approach, to handle all of my tone tasks, utilizing my favorite bits of outboard gear, because I was tired of redoing the rig to accommodate ever-changing desires, needs, and targets. That is when I realized a 'one-size fits all' solution wasn't realistic for me-- as my appreciation for a wide variety of sounds was/is insatiable.

 

[Anonymous]

This is all very interesting. I think I'll try a line mixer instead of using the effects to mix in my dry signal to my Left and Right W/D cabs...

Got my eye on the MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer. Looks pretty sweet, room for growth in my rig and covers looper and mixer in one device. Good price too for what it is capable of ($365 USD

http://mlcamplifiers.com/en/guitar-systems/dual-stereo-line-mixer

Steve

 

[paulyc]

There are others out there that are cheaper...Old Korg KMX62, Rocktron G612 ? I think, and Rane all made single space rack mount mixers.

 

[Anonymous]

There are others out there that are cheaper...Old Korg KMX62, Rocktron G612 ? I think, and Rane all made single space rack mount mixers.

I don't think any of those do exactly what this one does though...

Steve

 

[Zachman]

There are others out there that are cheaper...Old Korg KMX62, Rocktron G612 ? I think, and Rane all made single space rack mount mixers.

I don't think any of those do exactly what this one does though...

Steve

Can't speak to the Korg or Rocktron, but I have used the Rane SM26, and the SM26B in previous rigs and they were in NO way as transparent sounding as the CAE, but they (the Rane mixers), were known as the swiss army knife of line mixers and were used in MANY MANY rigs of some of our heroes.

Mark L's stuff looks cool to me too, but I have no 1st hand experience to be able to comment.

 

[paulyc]

My only experience with CAE is that Bob was , well, kind of a dick... I know his product is killer though...

 

[Zachman]

My only experience with CAE is that Bob was , well, kind of a dick... I know his product is killer though...

Bob is the real deal, and you're correct; his products are AWESOME! No regrets here, as they've served me well, and the rig has never sounded better.

 

[paulyc]

Oh, I know Bob is amazing...but it would be nice if Bob didn't find himself that way. His stuff is truly awesome, but why can't he just be cool ? I've heard a bunch of horror stories all over the 'net (and some right here on this forum) of people being ripped off, never getting gear they ordered/paid for, etc... glad you got yours Zachman

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, I know Bob is amazing...but it would be nice if Bob didn't find himself that way. His stuff is truly awesome, but why can't he just be cool ? I've heard a bunch of horror stories all over the 'net (and some right here on this forum) of people being ripped off, never getting gear they ordered/paid for, etc... glad you got yours Zachman

I've written emails to CAE multiple times over the years and never gotten a response...

Steve