Sorry Axe guys but I think the Pod kicked the Axe in the ass

[steve_k]

Mac vs. PC......

 

[jlbaxe]

Mac vs. PC......

Mac for the Win

 

[jabps]

I actually think this is a good thing. Line 6 pretty much started the whole whizzbang and had been getting their jock handed to them. Good to see them step up and do something about it. It will only push things further.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Kind of clear as day in this demo....

Not at all IMO. They both sound excellent. But they're clearly EQ'ed differently. The POD is bright, the Axe is dark. I'd bet you could tweak the EQ and make them both sound exactly the same.

I also think the dude doing the clips can make anything sound great. For $499, the POD is a nice deal though.

 

[rsm]

I had an Ultra for about 4 months, only L6 kit I owned was a M9 (for about 9 months). I use an older modeler that meets my needs, at present this is a Vox Tonelab tabletop (the original blue version) which can be found used for around $100. I don't use it for metal, so I don't know if or how well it would do high gain; I don't use the effects either, with the exception of the Treble Boost with the AC30 Normal Channel amp model. It sounds and feels great for what I dig. YMMV

As far as better, tough call as I would need to AB them side by side. However, the quality of the hardware components in the Axe-Fx can't be touched by Line 6 at this price point IMO. It comes down to their programmers and algorithms making the best use of their hardware. If they do that well, they could get closer to the Axe-Fx but will always be limited by the hardware. I was able to get good sounds from my Ultra, but I think to really get the best out of it you need to get into the advanced tweaking which is equal parts art and science - though I've read more recent firmware updates have improved the sound of the amp model defaults...dunno?

Rumors of a simplified modeler from Fractal abound, but the source of the rumors was Cliff himself in a post on TGP.

That said, I would like to try an HD500. My biggest concern is how does it sound direct, without the DT-50 amp and without a Variax? That is, do you need the whole system to make it sound the best, or does the HD500 work well enough on its own?

I do like that it is a floorboard which is my preferred form factor. I will wait and see how L6 will offer additional amp models.

What I really want from a modeler:

1) software upgradeable, user selectable amp and cab models (I don't need them all in the modeler, I'd like to add/remove/update from software on my computer to the device as needed. I'd rather have more of what I would use taking up space, howeve minimal, than having models I'll never use wasting space)
pedal board friendly size and controls
2) only amp / cab / mic models with ability to use 3rd party IRs
3) no effects (I have effects that I dig already)
4) MIDI in, out, thru
5) USB and/or firewire
6) no integrated pedal (option to add)

The Tonelab tabletop comes closest to these requirements, and its as old as dirt in modeling years. It has the same modeling circuit that is in my Vox AD120VTH which I dig as well. I've read that Vox made changes (cost cutting?) to simplify the valvtronix circuit? not sure how true it is, I never had an SE but I had an LE; while I thought the LE was good, I think the tabletop has more/better dynamics and feel. For around $100, it is a bargain - I doubt it will do high gain that many dig here though?

 

[bigdaddyd]

I will be honest here..as for these clips....I did like the line 6, but that doesn't mean much since I am sure the Axe can be dialed the same way. As for the axefx, I never liked them and I agree with the above poster who said that live he never heard one that sounded good. I never have either. I have heard really good recorded clips though. That brings me back to this. I for some reason didn't realize that you could use the line 6 as a usb recording device. I think if that is true, for $499, you have quite some bang for your buck...especially if it is that close to the AxeFx in sound quality, whether or not you think it is better....it is close and way cheaper and includes the footcontroller.

 

[Chubtone]

Come on guys, I dialed everything from scratch to give the pod a chance. I've been using my axe for 6 months and have great sounding presets for it. It would have blown away the Pod so that wouldn't be fair.

I'm confused. You dialed in both units from scratch and in this demo the Pod sounds better IMO. It sounds like you are saying you got the best sound you could out of the Pod but didn't do the same for the Axe? You say you have presets for the Axe that would have blown away the pod and that it wouldn't have been fair? It's not fair to begin with. The Axe costs four times as much as the top of the line Pod. If it blows it away that should be shown. I think that video is going to sell tons of Line 6 products because in my opinion, it shows a Pod blowing away an Axe Fx and most people who watch it are going to deduce, "well the Pod sounds better so I'm getting that".

 

[AmpliFIRE]

Pod sounded better to me across the board.

I'm with James on this one...

 

[mortega76]

I guess if judging by YouTube videos is the way to find out what's best then everyone would be driving Smart Cars...

 

[Ancient Alien]

I guess if judging by YouTube videos is the way to find out what's best then everyone would be driving Smart Cars...

Hell, I did the same thing to a Lambro with my Camaro, so...

Just because you pay more for it, doesn't mean it's better.

 

[Erock]

Come on guys, I dialed everything from scratch to give the pod a chance. I've been using my axe for 6 months and have great sounding presets for it. It would have blown away the Pod so that wouldn't be fair.

I'm confused. You dialed in both units from scratch and in this demo the Pod sounds better IMO. It sounds like you are saying you got the best sound you could out of the Pod but didn't do the same for the Axe? You say you have presets for the Axe that would have blown away the pod and that it wouldn't have been fair? It's not fair to begin with. The Axe costs four times as much as the top of the line Pod. If it blows it away that should be shown. I think that video is going to sell tons of Line 6 products because in my opinion, it shows a Pod blowing away an Axe Fx and most people who watch it are going to deduce, "well the Pod sounds better so I'm getting that".

I think he means he dialed each unit in with the basic set of EQ controls quickly, and rolled thru the amp models that way. He obviously didn't tweak into the myriad of additional parameters the Axe offers, which takes a considerable amount of time, but would allow much more personalization of the sound. It's still impressive to me how the HD sounds with the basic parameters IMO, and would be way better for people like myself who would rather just tweak a basic EQ than get into the sound physics of the amp models. I think it will sell lot of units also, but anyone that has researched both will see the greater potential of the Axe. That said, bang for the buck, the HD is looking very attractive for what it is.

I really don't think Ola was trying to show up the Axe with this vid, he's said several times he likes the Axe much better and owns one. The only thing bolstering the HD would accomplish is dropping his resale value on the Axe.

 

[degenaro]

Ola posted these quick and he didn't put a lot of time into dialing them to sound like each other. I'll say this; I think either would sound fantastic for live use if run into a tube power section. I plan on getting the Pod hd500 eventually. I have people ask me if my 10 year old pod clips were recorded with a tube amp, so I'm sure that either of these things if setup properly will kill.

I have heard the Axe in person, live at a show and on many clips.
Sorry to say, but it just has a such a thin processed sound that can not be dialed out.
I could care less how much post production goes into making certain clips sound good, in a real situation, it just doesn't cut it to me.
Ed D posted a bunch of clips las week, and I could barely make out the guitar in a band situation even in times of guitar dominance.

And I have the AXE, 11R and HD 500...and the thing that is in my set-up is the Axe. How you explain that?

As for the comparison clips I didn't like the powerball on either, preferred the Recto on the Axe and the Uber on the HD. But just like 80s Metal tone I have really no use for it.

As for thin sounding, not to me...this is off the camcorder set in front of the keys, with no messing around with any eq, etc...

 

[dfrattaroli]

The only thing bolstering the HD would accomplish is dropping his resale value on the Axe.

Well I am concerned about this. I don't gig and with 3 kids, the days of just buying new gear when I feel like it, are gone. As much as I dig the Axe, I just couldn't take that kind of hit and would have to sell it before I lost an ass-load.

 

[FUZZboat]

I had an Ultra for about 4 months, only L6 kit I owned was a M9 (for about 9 months). I use an older modeler that meets my needs, at present this is a Vox Tonelab tabletop (the original blue version) which can be found used for around $100. I don't use it for metal, so I don't know if or how well it would do high gain; I don't use the effects either, with the exception of the Treble Boost with the AC30 Normal Channel amp model. It sounds and feels great for what I dig. YMMV

As far as better, tough call as I would need to AB them side by side. However, the quality of the hardware components in the Axe-Fx can't be touched by Line 6 at this price point IMO. It comes down to their programmers and algorithms making the best use of their hardware. If they do that well, they could get closer to the Axe-Fx but will always be limited by the hardware. I was able to get good sounds from my Ultra, but I think to really get the best out of it you need to get into the advanced tweaking which is equal parts art and science - though I've read more recent firmware updates have improved the sound of the amp model defaults...dunno?

Rumors of a simplified modeler from Fractal abound, but the source of the rumors was Cliff himself in a post on TGP.

That said, I would like to try an HD500. My biggest concern is how does it sound direct, without the DT-50 amp and without a Variax? That is, do you need the whole system to make it sound the best, or does the HD500 work well enough on its own?

I do like that it is a floorboard which is my preferred form factor. I will wait and see how L6 will offer additional amp models.

What I really want from a modeler:

1) software upgradeable, user selectable amp and cab models (I don't need them all in the modeler, I'd like to add/remove/update from software on my computer to the device as needed. I'd rather have more of what I would use taking up space, howeve minimal, than having models I'll never use wasting space)
pedal board friendly size and controls
2) only amp / cab / mic models with ability to use 3rd party IRs
3) no effects (I have effects that I dig already)
4) MIDI in, out, thru
5) USB and/or firewire
6) no integrated pedal (option to add)

The Tonelab tabletop comes closest to these requirements, and its as old as dirt in modeling years. It has the same modeling circuit that is in my Vox AD120VTH which I dig as well. I've read that Vox made changes (cost cutting?) to simplify the valvtronix circuit? not sure how true it is, I never had an SE but I had an LE; while I thought the LE was good, I think the tabletop has more/better dynamics and feel. For around $100, it is a bargain - I doubt it will do high gain that many dig here though?

nothing but love here for my old AD60VTH

The marshall models take pedals & rack gear like a real amp

I've heard as well that vox changed the "new" valvtronix circuit and it does not sound the same

I had a pod pro xt w/ firmware updates & all the packs. I kept it for a year after buying the AD60VTH, thinking that if I tweak it enough I'll get the real amp feel of the vox.

eventually realized that PODs will always sound like PODs kinda like how peavey will always sound like peaveys

by the time Line 6 ever puts out anything better than vox or axefx I'll be too old to care !

btw, I'm really digging all the tonelab st "metal" clips I've heard

 

[Sandvich]

I think what could be happening here is that Line 6 is known for making an "on the record" tone out of the box. While they sound better they also sound more processed. The truth is a LOT of high gain amps sound naff until you post eq the fuck out of them, the Dual Recs being one amp, especially the newer models.

This is disappointing in a way since a lot of people were probably expecting a more "Like the amp" thing.

 

[FUZZboat]

I think what could be happening here is that Line 6 is known for making an "on the record" tone out of the box. While they sound better they also sound more processed. The truth is a LOT of high gain amps sound naff until you post eq the fuck out of them, the Dual Recs being one amp, especially the newer models.

This is disappointing in a way since a lot of people were probably expecting a more "Like the amp" thing.

which is one of my main beefs with Line6 - if their going for "album" tones then thats exactly what the presets should give us

a black in black preset should sound 100% dead on

a VHII preset should sound 100% dead on

a dokken preset should sound 100% dead on

Line 6 always promises to deliver the goods but never live up to it - seems like Line 6 stuff will always give us tofu when we ask for a freakin cheeseburger

 

[bigdaddyd]

I think what could be happening here is that Line 6 is known for making an "on the record" tone out of the box. While they sound better they also sound more processed. The truth is a LOT of high gain amps sound naff until you post eq the fuck out of them, the Dual Recs being one amp, especially the newer models.

This is disappointing in a way since a lot of people were probably expecting a more "Like the amp" thing.

which is one of my main beefs with Line6 - if their going for "album" tones then thats exactly what the presets should give us

a black in black preset should sound 100% dead on

a VHII preset should sound 100% dead on

a dokken preset should sound 100% dead on

Line 6 always promises to deliver the goods but never live up to it - seems like Line 6 stuff will always give us tofu when we ask for a freakin cheeseburger

Line 6 would not be alone in that description...pretty much ALL modeling companies, not to mention effects processors in general,...including AxeFX would fall under that description. They do that so you would see what the unit is capable of. It is up to the user to program the sounds to suit their needs.

 

[DiezelMonster]

I think if you mixed them both together it would be perfect! mix both samples the dual and the uber from both, and it would be perfect! hahaha


Or just play real amps!

Thanks for making these videos Ola!

 

[thiswaythatway]

I owned a few POD's and i tried out the Axe for 15 days. The Axe is a much better unit. I tried it with a Mesa 2:90 poweramp and it sounded pretty good. I just don't like the whole setup with a rack and i didn't like tweaking it but the Axe is capable of some pretty good tones and it can sound very fat with a good tube poweramp.

 

[Random Hero]

Ola posted these quick and he didn't put a lot of time into dialing them to sound like each other. I'll say this; I think either would sound fantastic for live use if run into a tube power section. I plan on getting the Pod hd500 eventually. I have people ask me if my 10 year old pod clips were recorded with a tube amp, so I'm sure that either of these things if setup properly will kill.

I have heard the Axe in person, live at a show and on many clips.
Sorry to say, but it just has a such a thin processed sound that can not be dialed out.
I could care less how much post production goes into making certain clips sound good, in a real situation, it just doesn't cut it to me.
Ed D posted a bunch of clips las week, and I could barely make out the guitar in a band situation even in times of guitar dominance.

Direct, I've never been truly blown away by Axe FX clips but I played one into a VHT 2/50/2 yesterday, going through a Marshall 1936 with Alnico Golds. It sounded anything but thin, dude.

My personal view was that the high gain tones tended to sound like one another, the Dumble tones were great, the Marshalls were OK and the cleans again, OK. Great unit though.