SPEAKER PREFRENCES

[TheGrooveking]

Even though I've never tried it, the V30/75's make a good mix and yes, it is what Bogner uses in their cabs. I'd say give it a shot.

It's what they use in the Uber cabinets, not the standard 412's.

TheGrooveking

 

[AdamB]

I play hardcore mainly. And when i was getting a new cab from matamp, i went to the factory, and was ready to order 4 v30's to be put in, just like my mesa. But the cab is made better, so the cab naturally has a deeper more natural sounding bass.

Hey Adam,

Thanks for the info.

The situation you have with the Matamp cab which is a better built cab and the Stoneage 412 cab I have is identical.
I need to open it up a little more with a couple of speakers that are not so mid heavy to use in conjunction with the v30's I have.
A buddy of mine has a couple of G12t75's hanging around.
Since these are a slightly less powered G12t100 I'm hoping it does the trick and opens up the sound a little and allows me to lower my presence and treble on my amp settings.
I think this is the combination Bogner uses in their Uber cabs.

Thanks again

Richard

I'd say go for it! The G12T75's are a bit more on the treble side than the 100's, and i found the 100's to be more balanced. So maybe try them too if you can

A great combo with v30's in my opinion!

 

[aeroic]

I play hardcore mainly. And when i was getting a new cab from matamp, i went to the factory, and was ready to order 4 v30's to be put in, just like my mesa. But the cab is made better, so the cab naturally has a deeper more natural sounding bass.

Hey Adam,

Thanks for the info.

The situation you have with the Matamp cab which is a better built cab and the Stoneage 412 cab I have is identical.
I need to open it up a little more with a couple of speakers that are not so mid heavy to use in conjunction with the v30's I have.
A buddy of mine has a couple of G12t75's hanging around.
Since these are a slightly less powered G12t100 I'm hoping it does the trick and opens up the sound a little and allows me to lower my presence and treble on my amp settings.
I think this is the combination Bogner uses in their Uber cabs.

Thanks again

Richard

I'd say go for it! The G12T75's are a bit more on the treble side than the 100's, and i found the 100's to be more balanced. So maybe try them too if you can

A great combo with v30's in my opinion!

I need to try the G12T-100's next too . I like the K100's as they are a really good speaker. I want to try the T-100's in my eggie 1x12's .

Eric

 

[remocity]

ERIC,

Would you say that the G12K100's are kind of a cross between a v30 and a t75?

I think i've heard this in other forums..........

Thanks

Richard

 

[aeroic]

ERIC,

Would you say that the G12K100's are kind of a cross between a v30 and a t75?

I think i've heard this in other forums..........

Thanks

Richard

Somewhat yes. Take a T75 and add a bit more mids to it. Mids like in a V30, but without the big hump like a V30. It's a more balanced speaker with respect to frequencies. I just got finished A/B'ing the T75s vs the K100s in my 2 Eggie 1x12. One thing about the Eggie 1x12 (without the tone bras...I don't use them because I didn't like them) is that the Eggie 1x12 is darker than most marshall 4x12 cabs. The same speakers in the Eggie have a touch of the high end rolled off of them naturally (because the wood absorbs some of the higher end, because it has better wood than in most marshall cabs). Having said that, the K100s have a little more top end vs the T75. But not brittle, icepick high end. Very smooth high end. With the T75 I have to turn the presence up a bit to get them both having similar high end tones. The mid-range is where you definitely hear the difference. If you compare the K100 to a V30 to a T75, where the mids in the V30 would be over done, and the T75 are relaxed, the K100s hit right in the middle. This is a very muscular speaker. The low end is very punchy in the K100, similar to the T75, but with more punch. I can crank my "density" on my VHT 2/90/2 to 100% without the speaker farting out at all. The eggie 1x12s really can take the bass and push it out very tightly. I'm still breaking in the K100, but it has a deeper low end than the T75, but still very tight.

So, I would say...that a cross between a V30 and a T75 is pretty correct. Just not with a big mid-range bump like V30's have. More of a balanced speaker. I am really wanting to try the G12T-100 next. I'm gonna grab one from Avatar speakers and A/B that next with the K100 and T75. From what I have heard the G12T-100 takes the T75, and smooths out the highs a bit...and adds a touch of mid-range. It'd be interesting to hear a G12T-100 in one of my Eggie 1x12's, and a K100 in the other to see how they blend together. That could be a match made in heaven .

I definitely have to say that the K100 is one of the best speakers I've played (along w/ the CL80) to go across all of my Eggie modules with great results. Only things I didn't like about the CL80 is the lack of sparkling high end. The K100 has a similar vibe to the CL80, with a big more muscular feel to the T75, and the mids of the V30. I'd say it approaches more of a mix of the best parts of the CL80, T75, and V30.

Eric

 

[remocity]

Great info Eric!

Really appreciated............

Richard

 

[3 Mile Stone]

Guitar Slinger wrote
IMO, you should get a different cab, and try the speakers you have. The 1922 is very small, and I don't think they use plywood in that model. I could be wrong, but I think the walls of the 1922 are MDF (particle board).

Do you think that the MDF is vibrating and adding to the sound?
i hear that expensive HI-FI speaker enclousures are reinforsed to the max and filled with acoustic blankets to dampen "the sound of the box". Do you think this would be critical with a guitar cab though?

Cheers

I would recomend that you not try to adapt the same techniques and theories that apply to expensive HI-FI gear or PA equipment when dealing with guitars. I know there are no rules but still, I would stay away from that, it's been done in the '80s and a lot of sterile bland boring guitar tones were the result. In guitar land you want the cabinet to be part of the sound, unless you were using a Axe FX or modelling or something and you wanted to nuetralize the sonic imprint as much as possible.

Here is where my opnion may differ from others, but I don't think a speaker cabinet being made out of partical board is a problem except from a durability point of view. If the MDF is exposed to water it will swell and funky stuff will happen. It will also chip, like where you have casters on the bottom of the cab. Durability issues? Yes. Sound issues? I don't really think you can say they sound worse, that's an opnion. The best sounding 4X12 I ever had was an early '70s Sound City. It looked just like a Hiwatt. Incredible tone, big 4X12! It wa spartical board.

 

[bbaug14]

Guitar Slinger wrote
IMO, you should get a different cab, and try the speakers you have. The 1922 is very small, and I don't think they use plywood in that model. I could be wrong, but I think the walls of the 1922 are MDF (particle board).

Do you think that the MDF is vibrating and adding to the sound?
i hear that expensive HI-FI speaker enclousures are reinforsed to the max and filled with acoustic blankets to dampen "the sound of the box". Do you think this would be critical with a guitar cab though?

Cheers

I would recomend that you not try to adapt the same techniques and theories that apply to expensive HI-FI gear or PA equipment when dealing with guitars. I know there are no rules but still, I would stay away from that, it's been done in the '80s and a lot of sterile bland boring guitar tones were the result. In guitar land you want the cabinet to be part of the sound, unless you were using a Axe FX or modelling or something and you wanted to nuetralize the sonic imprint as much as possible.

Here is where my opnion may differ from others, but I don't think a speaker cabinet being made out of partical board is a problem except from a durability point of view. If the MDF is exposed to water it will swell and funky stuff will happen. It will also chip, like where you have casters on the bottom of the cab. Durability issues? Yes. Sound issues? I don't really think you can say they sound worse, that's an opnion. The best sounding 4X12 I ever had was an early '70s Sound City. It looked just like a Hiwatt. Incredible tone, big 4X12! It wa spartical board.

I would think something like MDF would/could sound better than "real" wood overall. My rationale would be that because it's made of particles, it's density and total make up are more consistant than regular wood which may be more dense / less dense, pitted, warped, etc. throughout the cabinet. Also, from a manufacturing standpoint, cabs made with MDF would have a more consistant sound from cab to cab because of this. It would just be a matter of finding which speakers work best with the MDF in it's given size and shape.

Of course, I could be way off base here, but if I am, I'd like to hear the reason why.

 

[Hectic Watermelon]

I would think something like MDF would/could sound better than "real" wood overall. My rationale would be that because it's made of particles, it's density and total make up are more consistant than regular wood which may be more dense / less dense, pitted, warped, etc. throughout the cabinet. Also, from a manufacturing standpoint, cabs made with MDF would have a more consistant sound from cab to cab because of this. It would just be a matter of finding which speakers work best with the MDF in it's given size and shape.

Of course, I could be way off base here, but if I am, I'd like to hear the reason why.[/quote]

From an acoustics standpoint, the MDF will not absorb frequencies (or not transmit them) like wood. Moreover, I think you make a good point that poor wood selection may create a whole different variable as well. So, MDF could be better or worse depending on other factors. I am no cabinet maker, but it would seem to me that there are several performance issues that dictate the overall sound: frequency absorption/frequency transmission, modes (internal size as it relates to frequencies it favors/boosts), and projection factors (open back, closed back, porting, Port City-type baffling, etc). I have a feeling that, like with acoustic guitars, the design and build quality of a cab are more important than the materials in the end.

 

[3 Mile Stone]

Excellent points by John and bbaug. I was thinking along those same lines. There is some really good discussion here on speakers. I have noticed as mentioned that the Warehouse Veteran 30 is more pleasing to my ear than the Celestion as I have never liked those but loved the Tourmaster 4X12. I heard a lot of talk about the Celestion 100 speaker and certainly sounds like a good one Eric, I used to love the K85 which I think is similar. John please report back after you get a chance to get into the Blackbird from Jensen. Not a lot of reviews info out there yet and I am very interested in that one. I have an open back 1X12 that is looking for a cone. I would love to try the Celestion Gold, your lucky Grooveking, I'm jealous dude. The "black & blue" is one speaker from Warehouse, but I just saw they have a new alnico magnet speaker called the Blackhawk rated at 50 watts. Hmmm. That was cool what AdanB was saying about Mataamps having a 12 way switch. I want one too!!!!

 

[marvcus]

+1 on all that. Changing speakers can be just as drastic as changing amps.

I used to have a Zinky Mofo that I ran w/ a Boogie cab w/ V30s. There was something I never really liked about the sound (especially recorded) and then when I discovered the internet and gear forums, I realized I wasn't alone.

I decided to buy a matching Zinky cab with "custom" drivers in it. While the V30s were OK, the Zinky's were HORRIBLE. Went from sounding Soldano-ish to almost like a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (not my thing).

Right then I realized how important the right cab/speakers are.

(Shameless OT) Oh, and by the way, I cranked my rig last night (again) and I just keep smiling because this is the best tone I've ever had. The SL and EG5 ROCK!!!

Ok, back to speakers..

 

[aeroic]

+1 on all that. Changing speakers can be just as drastic as changing amps.

I used to have a Zinky Mofo that I ran w/ a Boogie cab w/ V30s. There was something I never really liked about the sound (especially recorded) and then when I discovered the internet and gear forums, I realized I wasn't alone.

I decided to buy a matching Zinky cab with "custom" drivers in it. While the V30s were OK, the Zinky's were HORRIBLE. Went from sounding Soldano-ish to almost like a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (not my thing).

Right then I realized how important the right cab/speakers are.

(Shameless OT) Oh, and by the way, I cranked my rig last night (again) and I just keep smiling because this is the best tone I've ever had. The SL and EG5 ROCK!!!

Ok, back to speakers..

I totally agree there I think that's the big reason richedie didn't like the EG5. I have a SugarCone at my house, and I didn't like it that much through the Sugarcone. But through G12-65's, G12T-75's, and K100's it sounds awesome .

Eric

 

[blumuz123]

Big Question?

I need any suggestions.
not having endless resources in buying and exchanging speakers etc
i want to spend as less as possible.


Here is how I have far I have come.

mod50 with T/D and SL2 5881's and GC 4x12 not to happy
then went to
mod50 with vox and SL much better - then added Tung sl EL34b's and wow it really popped.

the question is, do I try pre amp tubes next then try a speaker or speaker cab change, (maybe with some of the v30 characteristics) or do i try a totally different speaker.

anyone have any wisdom on the order/approach of gear?

I knew the mod50 head/modules was the place to start

 

[aeroic]

Big Question?

I need any suggestions.
not having endless resources in buying and exchanging speakers etc
i want to spend as less as possible.


Here is how I have far I have come.

mod50 with T/D and SL2 5881's and GC 4x12 not to happy
then went to
mod50 with vox and SL much better - then added Tung sl EL34b's and wow it really popped.

the question is, do I try pre amp tubes next then try a speaker or speaker cab change, (maybe with some of the v30 characteristics) or do i try a totally different speaker.

anyone have any wisdom on the order/approach of gear?

I knew the mod50 head/modules was the place to start

For me, preamp tube changes didn't really effect the tone as much as it did "feel." Like the Chinese 12ax7a's gave the EG5 a bit more bite and tightened it up a bit. It added some tonal varieties, but didn't really change the tone that much. Speakers, they really effect your tone a lot more than tubes. Like, playing the same amp / settings through different speakers either made the modules come alive, or sound like crap. I've tried a lot of speakers (Celestions, Warehouse speakers, Ear candy speakers, etc) and I am starting to hone in on what really makes me happy as a guitar player.

I really do dig that british flavor that celestion has. The sugarcones and green machine speakers didn't have it. they were too stale for my tastes. you need to look at what kind of speakers do you like. Do you like speakers that break up and really shape the tone like Greenbacks do? For me, I never liked greenbacks as I didn't like that "speaker breakup" for me. But the EV12's and Sugarcones were a bit too hi-fi and sterile for me. I've realized I like a speaker that does add a bit of color to the mix.

The CL80 is a good speaker if you like a pretty neutral british sounding speaker. It doesn't have as sparkly of highs as a G12T75 or G1265 does, but it sounds really warm and is very punchy in the low end. If you want a very mid-rangey speaker then the V30 or a Warehouse Speaker Vet30 is your choice. If cash is low, then check out Warehouse Speakers. They make really good speakers. I have Vet30s, their version of the CL80, their version of the G12-65, and their version of the Alnico Blues and they are all very good, and pretty inexpensive. I normally don't like V30's but their Vet30 is really good.

Anyways. i know that doesn't answer your question, but hope its food for thought .

Eric

 

[3 Mile Stone]

I'll be glad to offer what I hope is a solid opinion based on tons of experience (and wasted money ).

Find a cabinet & speakers you like first. I think the preamp tubes are just fine tuning the small subtleties after you have the major components. Now lets' figure out what kind of speakers you need to try. What did you not like about the Warehouse 30 Egnater Tourmaster 4X12? Did you break the speakers in? Did you play in a live setting? Do you play loud or bedroom level? What type of music do you play? Can you give an example of a sound you've heard that you really love?

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with your Egnater cabinet. Buying speakers 4 at a time is gonna be serious though. You may want to go to GC and try some stuff out man.

 

[aeroic]

I'll be glad to offer what I hope is a solid opinion based on tons of experience (and wasted money ).

Find a cabinet & speakers you like first. I think the preamp tubes are just fine tuning the small subtleties after you have the major components. Now lets' figure out what kind of speakers you need to try. What did you not like about the Warehouse 30 Egnater Tourmaster 4X12? Did you break the speakers in? Did you play in a live setting? Do you play loud or bedroom level? What type of music do you play? Can you give an example of a sound you've heard that you really love?

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with your Egnater cabinet. Buying speakers 4 at a time is gonna be serious though. You may want to go to GC and try some stuff out man.

I hear ya man . I have about 20 speakers in my basement right now I need to sell. At least I know what I don't like . But I've been looking for speakers to fit the Eggie 1x12 . I still to this day keep going back to the G12T75 and the G12-65. G12T75 for my rock stuff....and the G1-65 for the bluesier stuff. Two of my favorite speakers from Celestion.

Eric

 

[Hectic Watermelon]

Well, after beginning to break in the Jensen Blackbirds (loaded in the Port City 4x12 OS) for over an hour tonight on the B'Man A channel (through DiMarzio PAF anniversaries and Area 58/61) at increasingly higher volumes, I am very, very impressed with the speakers! I am running a makeshift W/D/W setup with 2 1x12 cabs (Eminence Texas Heats) running wet from the Axe FX. It's one of those things where I just finished mixing an album and felt like, damn, I wish I had this clean tone on there! More to report later.

 

[aeroic]

Well, after beginning to break in the Jensen Blackbirds (loaded in the Port City 4x12 OS) for over an hour tonight on the B'Man A channel (through DiMarzio PAF anniversaries and Area 58/61) at increasingly higher volumes, I am very, very impressed with the speakers! I am running a makeshift W/D/W setup with 2 1x12 cabs (Eminence Texas Heats) running wet from the Axe FX. It's one of those things where I just finished mixing an album and felt like, damn, I wish I had this clean tone on there! More to report later.

How do the Port City cabs compare to the Eggie 1x12s?

Eric

 

[Hectic Watermelon]

Well, after beginning to break in the Jensen Blackbirds (loaded in the Port City 4x12 OS) for over an hour tonight on the B'Man A channel (through DiMarzio PAF anniversaries and Area 58/61) at increasingly higher volumes, I am very, very impressed with the speakers! I am running a makeshift W/D/W setup with 2 1x12 cabs (Eminence Texas Heats) running wet from the Axe FX. It's one of those things where I just finished mixing an album and felt like, damn, I wish I had this clean tone on there! More to report later.

How do the Port City cabs compare to the Eggie 1x12s?

Eric

My 1x12s are Earcandy. If you are talking about the Egnater 1x12 OS, I think it is the best 1x12 I've ever heard. The one Egnater had at NAMM was amazing. It may have had a GT75 in it too. Not quite sure, but it kind of had that vibe.

 

[Guitarvc]

I have a Stone Age 2X12C with Celestion Heritage 65's and the sound is killer for both cleans and overdrive.