Surprised: Diezel Einstein vs '82 JCM800

[BaRTY]

I have a situation here... )

A year ago I had a quick experience with Einstein. I wasn't impressed. Maybe the tubes were bad or smth else...traded it for vht ultralead.

Today I've received '82 marshall jcm800 and 6550 loaded Einstein. And you know I find Einstein to sound a lot like marshall on certain settings. Though Einstein has tighter bass than jcm800.

Now I'm in two minds, which amp to keep?! Jcm is classic amp that has this legendary tone. Einstein is more flexible and can sound very close to jcm800, i'm surprised how close it sounds on ch1 mode 2.

What do you think folks? What was your experience?

 

[JimmyBlind]

I owned an Einstein. Ch1 Mode 2 Texas was probably my favorite mode of that amp as well.

However, I think you'd be hard pushed to find a better amp than a 50w JCM800.

Even though i'm a huge advocate of Diezel's amps, I'd probably go with the Marshall, personally.

 

[glip22]

At the end of the day it's tough to beat an older Marshall with a boost. A lot of guys come full circle back to it. It's where most began.

 

[cardinal]

At the end of the day it's tough to beat an older Marshall with a boost. A lot of guys come full circle back to it. It's where most began.

I resemble this remark. I really like the Diezel crunch tone (Einstein Texas mode, VH4 channel 2), but to me it's hard to beat a 2204 for that type of tone. Diezel obviously can do more, but if the main focus is on that type of crunch, the 2204 is just where it's at for me. A few different pedals (boosts, overdrives, etc.) can ramp up the gain and give different flavors. Ends up pretty versatile if used that way.

But Diezel makes killer stuff, no doubt.

 

[duesentrieb]

If you play live you'll love the versatility of the Einstein with loop and 2 masters and additional (lead) channel.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I'm always hooked on that 800 circuit. You can tweak it lightly or just plain boost it. SD-1 and done. The only thing i find it needs, is a metro effects loop and you are off to the races. Time and time again, it will deliver the goods and cut in a band setting.

Not only that, but you could sell the Diezel and have enough for another 800 or JMP or both and then some!

 

[fuzzyguitars]

If you gig and play lots of music keep the einstien

Home sunset wanker. 800.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

You know, the one limiting factor of an 800 is that it lacks a clean channel.. i don't need pristine cleans though, just a quick way to go from zero to hero. I figure something like a Paul Gilbert detox pedal could work for that though.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I have a situation here... )

A year ago I had a quick experience with Einstein. I wasn't impressed. Maybe the tubes were bad or smth else...traded it for vht ultralead.

Today I've received '82 marshall jcm800 and 6550 loaded Einstein. And you know I find Einstein to sound a lot like marshall on certain settings. Though Einstein has tighter bass than jcm800.

Now I'm in two minds, which amp to keep?! Jcm is classic amp that has this legendary tone. Einstein is more flexible and can sound very close to jcm800, i'm surprised how close it sounds on ch1 mode 2.

What do you think folks? What was your experience?

What cab and speakers are you playing the Einstein on? I had one and played it on an old Marshall 4x12 loaded with 65 watters and the amp sounded like crap. I think it would have been better on V30's. But if you can turn the Marshall up keep it.

 

[Schaf]

You know, the one limiting factor of an 800 is that it lacks a clean channel.. i don't need pristine cleans though, just a quick way to go from zero to hero. I figure something like a Paul Gilbert detox pedal could work for that though.

I have a Metro loop in my 800. I run an RP1000 in 4cm. While I use the 800 and a boost or od for my main sound, I can instantly switch to a model from the pedal for a pristine clean sound. I still use my volume knob for a slightly dirty clean, when I need a clean clean I just use the twin reverb model on the pedal. It's very convincing.

Many wont put the loop in. But for me, it's the best $140 I've spent on gear. I play in a cover band and what I can't do with just the amp and OD's, I can use the pedal for modern high gain and clean sounds.

 

[tripstan]

If you play live you'll love the versatility of the Einstein with loop and 2 masters and additional (lead) channel.

+1
Great live amp. An awesome loop and 2 masters is hard to beat for live gigs FWIW here's my amp/cab. 100 watt Einstein > FL Diezel 2x12 with G12-65's or V30's. With a boost out front and compressor in the loop (kinda weird but my preference) I can get just about every tone I need out of it. I use this rig for country/classic rock gigs and hard rock/metal.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

You know, the one limiting factor of an 800 is that it lacks a clean channel.. i don't need pristine cleans though, just a quick way to go from zero to hero. I figure something like a Paul Gilbert detox pedal could work for that though.

I have a Metro loop in my 800. I run an RP1000 in 4cm. While I use the 800 and a boost or od for my main sound, I can instantly switch to a model from the pedal for a pristine clean sound. I still use my volume knob for a slightly dirty clean, when I need a clean clean I just use the twin reverb model on the pedal. It's very convincing.

Many wont put the loop in. But for me, it's the best $140 I've spent on gear. I play in a cover band and what I can't do with just the amp and OD's, I can use the pedal for modern high gain and clean sounds.

Agreed. The metro loop made my JCM the top of the pile amp for me. I love it and wouldn't go without one. As you mentioned you can go from varying levels of gain light crunch - crunch- beefed up- hot rod (with pedal).

So how does the RP100 clean replace the preamp gain? I mean if you have the preamp on say 6 or 7, how does the RP1000 cover that?

 

[Shiny_Surface]

double post

 

[Shiny_Surface]

I have a Metro loop in my 800. I run an RP1000 in 4cm. While I use the 800 and a boost or od for my main sound, I can instantly switch to a model from the pedal for a pristine clean sound. I still use my volume knob for a slightly dirty clean, when I need a clean clean I just use the twin reverb model on the pedal. It's very convincing.

Many wont put the loop in. But for me, it's the best $140 I've spent on gear. I play in a cover band and what I can't do with just the amp and OD's, I can use the pedal for modern high gain and clean sounds.

I agree, adding a loop to my 800 really added to it's capabilities. I like the Metro loops, had one in a JMP I used to have. My 2204 has a tube buffered loop which I like equally as well as the Metro. Either/or are fine by me...

 

[jsp]

Personally I'd rather have the Einstein, but that's just me.

 

[Nico]

Had an 800 still have an Einstein,

It sounds a lot better (subjective) , is much much more reliable. Which to me is really important.
Has a better Master Volume, sounds much better at lower volumes.

It has more features like additional Master Volume and effects loops, great for live work.

It looks a whole lot better too!

 

[nevusofota]

I'd have to say keep the 800 for the following reasons:

1. They are getting harder to find, especially unmolested.
2. It will ALWAYS be the sound of Rock.
3. You'll be able to pick up another Diezel for many years to come.


I guess it goes without saying to keep both if you have the means.

 

[BaRTY]

A lot of replies, folks, a lot of opinions. Thanks.
I'm not a live player. Just ocasional small gigs several times a year. I'm more of a hobbyist.

A agree that jcm800 is a staple (hard)rock and 80s metal sound. I do like this amp. I had '80 2203 JMP before this '82 JCM800. But I'm amazed how close the einstein sounds. I'll have a deep comparison on Saturday.

Not a long time ago I had Diezel VH4. Overall great versatile amp. But speaking of all channels in particular, I can not say it is something special. Channel 3 is exception. It has this unique Diesel voice. 4th channel I liked the least.
I compared 2nd channel of VH4 to my '80 2203 JMP and marshall was the winner for authentic rock and hard rock sound from early era. Diezel sounded just fine, more refined and less bite.
After all I sold VH4 because I can not justify having unique and expensive one channel sound (ch3). I bought 2 other amps instead.

But now I'm surprised by Einstein with its nice marshall based sounds. I think saturday comparison help to decide. I can not keep both cause I have another nice amps.

 

[FourT6and2]

No Diezel will ever nail, bang-on, the "Marshall" sound. If you want that sound, there is no substitute for the real thing. Because there is more to it than just the "tone." A Marshall feels and responds a certain way to your picking, your guitar's volume, amp volume, and so on. Same thing with a Diezel. And those variables are unique to each amp design. If you want something more versatile, the Diezel is the way to go. And if you're happy with Mode 2 on the Einstein, then I say go for it. Because the Einstein has a sweet clean channel, mode 3 is that famous Diezel high-gain, and channel 2 is actually quite useable compared to something like VH4 channel 4.

 

[BaRTY]

No Diezel will ever nail, bang-on, the "Marshall" sound. If you want that sound, there is no substitute for the real thing. Because there is more to it than just the "tone." A Marshall feels and responds a certain way to your picking, your guitar's volume, amp volume, and so on. Same thing with a Diezel. And those variables are unique to each amp design. If you want something more versatile, the Diezel is the way to go. And if you're happy with Mode 2 on the Einstein, then I say go for it. Because the Einstein has a sweet clean channel, mode 3 is that famous Diezel high-gain, and channel 2 is actually quite useable compared to something like VH4 channel 4.

Yep, the 4th channel on VH4 is just weird. Overcompressed, unusable to my liking. Totally agree with you.
Why did you sell your VH4?