Talk me out of a Baritone

[phillybhatesme]

3/8 update: I strung both a Gibson and Schecter with 11-54s (11, 14, 18, 30, 42, 54) and brought the Gibson to band practice today. It felt better. I might slowly increment up to some of these other options I got from Stringjoy recently. Using the tension calculator, my brain tells me that 60s are going to provide the tension I like, but I want to get fed up with 54s, 56s, and 58s first.

I also got a multiscale Legator which goes from 25.5-26.5 but haven't done a set up on it yet.

------------------ Original Post ------------------

I play drop D 99% of the time. I've used 52s, 54s, and 56s on both 24.75 and 25.5 inch scales and have found my 6th string to be too loose for my liking. When I play with Stringjoy's string tension calculator, it looks like something around 60 or 62 would "work" for me, but then I start wondering about something with a 26.5 or 27" scale.

Why wouldn't I get a baritone and play in drop D? Is that illegal?

 

[tjnx]

Thicker gauge strings can help a bit with tone but may become more challenging to do fast tremolo picks or gallops depending on the pick you use and your technique. If you go up in scale you can keep using the guage you're comfortable with at lower tunings because there will be more tension.

I was going the opposite direction, (trying to get lighter for bends), but what I did was keep doing down in tuning until the tension felt right. If you like your current gauge then I would start tuning up until it felt good then plug the guage, scale length, and your tuning into the calculator so you have a lb/in number to build around. This way you can transfer it to any other guitar / tuning in the future.

I've got a 26.5" scale 7 string at home and had to mostly adjust to the extra string and a little more stretch. Ltd and ESP baritones play very well. I dont see a problem with trying it unless the nut was cut really deep or something and needed thicker strings. I say go for it

 

[tjnx]

Pay attention to the top strings too, bends will get harder if you don't adjust. (...comparing your tensions...) I don't think heavy bottom / light top sets go big enough on the bottom to catch up but you could match all the tensions with a custom set.

 

[phillybhatesme]

Really appreciate the thoughtful posts @tjnx
It's funny you mention tremolo picking, a technique I currently suck at (and practice regularly) and actually prefer with higher tension. I also rarely bend, which is one of the reasons I started using 11s in the first place; I'm a relatively sloppy player and instead of getting better (practicing correctly), I just started using thicker strings as a bandaid to prevent accidental bends.
Now, I love the tension.
Your suggestion of tuning up to find out the tension I like is really smart. I've been going about this differently, thank you!

 

[tjnx]

No problem man, maybe just do the low string so you don't snap one. The only other potential gotcha with a baritone would be the heavier duty truss rod / neck. If some how it relied on a minimum string tension that could be an issue but I don't know enough about that so double check. Pretty sure it will be fine though.

You could always go 26.5 because I am way low on tension, with a floyd, and its fine but nearing the limit.

 

[phillybhatesme]

No problem man, maybe just do the low string so you don't snap one. The only other potential gotcha with a baritone would be the heavier duty truss rod / neck. If some how it relied on a minimum string tension that could be an issue but I don't know enough about that so double check. Pretty sure it will be fine though.

You could always go 26.5 because I am way low on tension, with a floyd, and its fine but nearing the limit.

Yeah, I'm actually quite fine with the tension of strings 1-5, but even in standard tuning, my 52 on the bottom is too flubby and a 56 just wasn't that too comfortable under the tips.
Oh no! Guitar shopping!

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

52 is my go to for drop d. 25.5 or 24.75

Smaller is loose, bigger sounds and feels wrong

 

[tjnx]

Yeah, I'm actually quite fine with the tension of strings 1-5, but even in standard tuning, my 52 on the bottom is too flubby and a 56 just wasn't that too comfortable under the tips.
Oh no! Guitar shopping!

What a terrible day!

 

[phillybhatesme]

52 is my go to for drop d. 25.5 or 24.75

Smaller is loose, bigger sounds and feels wrong

11-52 for me on all of my guitars and it's just too loose for me. That's a huge drop off in tension from 5 to 6.
I don't disagree that 56 just doesn't feel right. Fuck it, I'ma get a baritone.

 

[DanTravis62]

52 is my go to for drop d. 25.5 or 24.75

Smaller is loose, bigger sounds and feels wrong

Same, only I use 52s in standard AND play leads and bend all the time





As for philly, I wouldn't get a full on baritone, I would get a multiscale at 26.5 or 27.

You don't need it scaled that much bigger for drop d honestly

 

[phillybhatesme]

Same, only I use 52s in standard AND play leads and bend all the time





As for philly, I wouldn't get a full on baritone, I would get a multiscale at 26.5 or 27.

You don't need it scaled that much bigger for drop d honestly

Wait, 26.5" or 27" is what I was thinking (not necessarily multi, just straight). Is that not a "full on baritone?"
Wtf is that? Like 30?

 

[DanTravis62]

Wait, 26.5" or 27" is what I was thinking (not necessarily multi, just straight). Is that not a "full on baritone?"
Wtf is that? Like 30?

Technically anything above 25.5 is a "baritone" but you don't need to get too crazy like with the scale length if you're not planning on tuning down that low, right?

When people say baritone they generally mean a Fender Bass IV or something like that, which is 30", which would absolutely be overkill for your intended use-case I think

 

[phillybhatesme]

Technically anything above 25.5 is a "baritone" but you don't need to get too crazy like with the scale length if you're not planning on tuning down that low, right?

When people say baritone they generally mean a Fender Bass IV or something like that, which is 30", which would absolutely be overkill for your intended use-case I think

Gotcha. Yes, 27-30 is def overkill for what I'm trying to accomplish. Appreciate the input.

 

[stratjacket]

I think you should definitely try a baritone and see if you like it better. I went through that itch several years ago and did not like it.
Here were my issues. They may not be anything but you but it was enough for me to sell them all and never look back.

1- the longer scale length makes the frets farther apart. It’s a small difference that I didn’t really notice except that I felt uncomfortable playing and my hands hurt sooner from the extra stretching. When I’d go back to a 25.5 or 24.75 scale guitar, it felt like heaven.

2- As mentioned above, I had trouble finding the balance tension between low and high strings. Usually it was the high strings that were really tight and seemed like they sounded thin and shrill.

3- I was doing 7 and 8 strings. I eventually came to the conclusion I really don’t like really low tuned guitar sound. Going 6 strings tuned to Standard D was low enough for me. You probably are already past this one though with what you’re currently playing.

4- Pickup selection. Going really low meat I wanted a bright pickup for the low strings and that added to the shrill sound of the higher strings. Maybe you’ve already solved that one though.

 

[phillybhatesme]

I think you should definitely try a baritone and see if you like it better. I went through that itch several years ago and did not like it.
Here were my issues. They may not be anything but you but it was enough for me to sell them all and never look back.

1- the longer scale length makes the frets farther apart. It’s a small difference that I didn’t really notice except that I felt uncomfortable playing and my hands hurt sooner from the extra stretching. When I’d go back to a 25.5 or 24.75 scale guitar, it felt like heaven.

2- As mentioned above, I had trouble finding the balance tension between low and high strings. Usually it was the high strings that were really tight and seemed like they sounded thin and shrill.

3- I was doing 7 and 8 strings. I eventually came to the conclusion I really don’t like really low tuned guitar sound. Going 6 strings tuned to Standard D was low enough for me. You probably are already past this one though with what you’re currently playing.

4- Pickup selection. Going really low meat I wanted a bright pickup for the low strings and that added to the shrill sound of the higher strings. Maybe you’ve already solved that one though.

Thanks so much for the thoughtful response man.
I worry about 1, but think I'll be ok with 26.5 or 27 inch. As you kind of assumed in 3, I have gone down the extended range route and wound up with a 7 string and two 8 strings last year and ended up moving past them, quite quickly actually. I ended up getting some big beefy set from Stringjoy for the 8 string with 90s on the bottom. Fuck all that. I'm good with D2 and don't need to go any lower. I don't remember my hand hurting much, but I really didn't give those Gs a lot of neck time.
I haven't had much of an issue with the gauge and tension I'm at now with 11, 14, and 18 up top, so I'll probably mimic the tension on a slightly longer scale or I might just go with the same gauges since I'm really accustomed to that feel.

 

[tjnx]

To add another thing to the pile, I bought a pack of variety picks and found that certain ones do better with certain gauges / tensions. For about 10 bucks you could see if one material or thickness improves things.

I tried these 2 and landed on the JP Trinity. Other mentions were the JP primetone, EJ Jazz III, and hetfield black fang. Each had strengths for different guages and tunings

https://www.amazon.com/JIM-DUNLOP-Petrucci-Signature-Variety/dp/B0845Z7RZX?th=1
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Dunlop/PVP111-Pick-Artist-Variety-6-Pack-1500000010140.gc

I've tried some fan frets, some felt better, some felt worse. If you really wanted to go crazy you could go double drop d tuning on a 7 string. (just drop tune the lowest 2 strings). you could have your normal drop d and then more brootz

This guy I think plays very well and is 25.5" to 27" multiscale. If you can get in a store and try these it helps a ton. 7 strings may have a few more options if you're not finding it in 6 string baritones.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...l-rgd71alms-7-string-black-aurora-burst-matte.

Edit: just saw your post on 7s, I think a 26.5-27 6 would be good too

 

[phillybhatesme]

To add another thing to the pile, I bought a pack of variety picks and found that certain ones do better with certain gauges / tensions. For about 10 bucks you could see if one material or thickness improves things.

I tried these 2 and landed on the JP Trinity. Other mentions were the JP primetone, EJ Jazz III, and hetfield black fang. Each had strengths for different guages and tunings

https://www.amazon.com/JIM-DUNLOP-Petrucci-Signature-Variety/dp/B0845Z7RZX?th=1
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Dunlop/PVP111-Pick-Artist-Variety-6-Pack-1500000010140.gc

I've tried some fan frets, some felt better, some felt worse. If you really wanted to go crazy you could go double drop d tuning on a 7 string. (just drop tune the lowest 2 strings). you could have your normal drop d and then more brootz

This guy I think plays very well and is 25.5" to 27" multiscale. If you can get in a store and try these it helps a ton. 7 strings may have a few more options if you're not finding it in 6 string baritones.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...l-rgd71alms-7-string-black-aurora-burst-matte.

Edit: just saw your post on 7s, I think a 26.5-27 6 would be good too

This may be completely stubborn of me, but I don't wanna swap picks. I had been using the same picks for 25 years (blue tortex) and recently changed to the sharp blue tortex. I am so stubborn and don't want to believe that there are picks out there that will make me faster or better or change my tone *shoves fingers in ears LALALALALA*.

That fuckin Axion! I love that guitar and perpetually keep it on my watch list though I do not want a multiscale 7 string. The 6 string counterpart is right up my alley; I don't think I've ever realized it was 26.5" scale. Thanks for the excuse to buy that guitar.

 

[CoreyW]

Don’t buy a baritone, you’re just going to get laughed at by bass players… oh.. look at the little girly bass cause the guitar player can’t play a real one..

Just trying to do what you asked in the title!

 

[tjnx]

This may be completely stubborn of me, but I don't wanna swap picks. I had been using the same picks for 25 years (blue tortex) and recently changed to the sharp blue tortex. I am so stubborn and don't want to believe that there are picks out there that will make me faster or better or change my tone *shoves fingers in ears LALALALALA*.

That fuckin Axion! I love that guitar and perpetually keep it on my watch list though I do not want a multiscale 7 string. The 6 string counterpart is right up my alley; I don't think I've ever realized it was 26.5" scale. Thanks for the excuse to buy that guitar.

I get it, I only did it because I got stuck hard for months on an exercise. Even then it felt like a big thing to swap for some reason

Idk if you've played it yet but it is an awesome guitar for the money.... just sayin

Really interested in the solution though if you figure it out.

 

[CoreyW]

This may be completely stubborn of me, but I don't wanna swap picks. I had been using the same picks for 25 years (blue tortex) and recently changed to the sharp blue tortex. I am so stubborn and don't want to believe that there are picks out there that will make me faster or better or change my tone *shoves fingers in ears LALALALALA*.

That fuckin Axion! I love that guitar and perpetually keep it on my watch list though I do not want a multiscale 7 string. The 6 string counterpart is right up my alley; I don't think I've ever realized it was 26.5" scale. Thanks for the excuse to buy that guitar.

In all seriousness, sometimes a change is what you need to push you through the wall that you are stuck up against.