The Bogner Ecstasy

[se7en]

I found the XTC to be thicker than the Shiva....more width to the midrange. The Shiva has a more focused midrange by comparison. I would agree that the Shiva is angrier with the mode button engaged...That said, the XTC's red is definitely meaner than a 101b.

Thatsa good way to put it. the x has the squishier more compressed and forgiving tone whereas the Sheeves has a more RAW and in your face tone (with the mode button on). I just personally really like that raw 20th shiva tone the best of all. That said, I dont own a 20th X so maybe its a more raw, less forgiving amp then the 101s.

Yes, Shiva is more raw in a JCM800 kinda way. I'm more of a Plexi fan, as it's a richer and more versatile base, IMO. That's why I like the XTC and Browneye (Marsha). The XTC sounds huge, the Shiva was thinner in the bass and midrange and had a high end that was difficult for me to dial out. But, I'm super picky about that. The 20th X is indeed more raw and unforgiving than a 101. Much easier to dial in as well.

 

[RSRD]

But how different is it then the classic since that's what it essentially replaced?

 

[blackba]

My favorite amp I have owned.

So is your 20th XTC still for sale than?

What's the deal with the 6L6 versus EL34 on the XTC, is one preferred and why doesn't Bogner just make the amp able to work off of either power tube?

You rarely see the el34s up for sale. Reinhold states that 6l6s are what the amps should be played with for full potential of the amp. Personally I'd rather have the El34s in it.


No way the 20 th xtc cleans are near as good as the 20th Shivas. Maybe if you dont really like cleans all that much it doesnt matter. But for players who want a really organic clean or a great clean to use as a platform for pedals....shiva can't be beat. I also think the OD is thicker and angrier on the 20th with KTs. But the blue channel on the XTC and all the range the xtc brings makes it a monster amp.

I haven't spent any significant time with a Bogner, but I have thought that if I got one, the Shiva would probably be the best fit for me. I see a Shiva comes with EL34's, 6L6s or the 20th comes with KT88's, is one generally preferred? Any Shiva model to stay away from? If I do get one, it will likely be used.

That white XTC on the gear page is tempting too, nice price.

 

[sjk]

I found the XTC to be thicker than the Shiva....more width to the midrange. The Shiva has a more focused midrange by comparison. I would agree that the Shiva is angrier with the mode button engaged...That said, the XTC's red is definitely meaner than a 101b.

Thatsa good way to put it. the x has the squishier more compressed and forgiving tone whereas the Sheeves has a more RAW and in your face tone (with the mode button on). I just personally really like that raw 20th shiva tone the best of all. That said, I dont own a 20th X so maybe its a more raw, less forgiving amp then the 101s.

The 20th xtc has squish to it but it is less compressed than the 20th shiva with the mode button on I seem to recall. I had the 20th Sheeva for about a month and it was a geat amp but at the time I liked my 101b much better in the pre 2004 position on the marvel mod. Had it been an XTC made after 2004 with the added compression I would of kept the shiva. Red channel on the new xtc's is way too compressed. While the 20th Sheeva may be less forgiving than the XTC it still is a pretty forgiving amp....plays pretty easy. You want a more unforgiving amp get a Fryette Ultralead lol! I think you'd like it.

 

[se7en]

But how different is it then the classic since that's what it essentially replaced?

Haven't played one so can't say. The 20th has the vintage/modern switch and plexi mode can be boosted. It also has boutique capacitors. I talked to someone who told me he was gonna trade his XTC Classic after playing a new 20th, but that was awhile ago and I can't remember his experience.

 

[RSRD]

But how different is it then the classic since that's what it essentially replaced?

Haven't played one so can't say. The 20th has the vintage/modern switch and plexi mode can be boosted. It also has boutique capacitors. I talked to someone who told me he was gonna trade his XTC Classic after playing a new 20th, but that was awhile ago and I can't remember his experience.

Well i may soon find out

 

[rlord1974]

But how different is it then the classic since that's what it essentially replaced?

Haven't played one so can't say. The 20th has the vintage/modern switch and plexi mode can be boosted. It also has boutique capacitors. I talked to someone who told me he was gonna trade his XTC Classic after playing a new 20th, but that was awhile ago and I can't remember his experience.

Well i may soon find out

You are barred from this action, Thomas!

 

[RG955TT]

Have had 101B (still have it) 20th EL34 (still have it, main gigging amp) and the 20th w/6L6 (sold to Gibson5868 or whatever on RT-he made killer clips with that amp and had it for sale recently). I keep coming back to the 20th EL34 cause it does so many tones so well, need a U2 clean, yup, need slight drive for Foo's, yup, more drive for older classic rock (think Strangle Hold Ted Nugent intro) yup, need Aerosmith gainier tone, yup, VH tones, yup, all the way to AIC and Soundgarden to Metallica (OK not as scooped but...). Just the juicy most versitile head I have....still lovin it. clean plus 4 levels of gain at the touch of a footswitch.

 

[Ventura]

Have had 101B (still have it) 20th EL34 (still have it, main gigging amp) and the 20th w/6L6 (sold to Gibson5868 or whatever on RT-he made killer clips with that amp and had it for sale recently). I keep coming back to the 20th EL34 cause it does so many tones so well, need a U2 clean, yup, need slight drive for Foo's, yup, more drive for older classic rock (think Strangle Hold Ted Nugent intro) yup, need Aerosmith gainier tone, yup, VH tones, yup, all the way to AIC and Soundgarden to Metallica (OK not as scooped but...). Just the juicy most versitile head I have....still lovin it. clean plus 4 levels of gain at the touch of a footswitch.

And a "BOOST" that actually doesn't suck whatsoever. There's something you don't hear of every day!

 

[RG955TT]

Agreed!! THe boosted modes of both Blue and Red are my favorites as they just make a great sound bigger and gainier (not louder). I set the main gains a little lower for medium gain stuf and boost red for solos (although I use it for rythym stuff too) and Blue boosted is classic rock!

 

[thegame]

Briefly played a 20th Ecstasy and 20th Shiva.

20th Ecstasy : right away I heard more definition and harmonic detail compared to older Ecstasies I've played (101b, Classic). Nice amp.

20th Shiva : Nice amp as well with a more aggressive voicing than the Ecstasy, which is what I normally go for. But it didn't sound quite as good as the 20th Ecstasy because, although the bottom end is unquestionably tighter on the Shiva, the mids and highs were somewhat smeared and vague compared to the stringier definition of the Ecstasy. To use the cliched term again, it was more organic than the Shiva.

 

[RSRD]

Briefly played a 20th Ecstasy and 20th Shiva.

20th Ecstasy : right away I heard more definition and harmonic detail compared to older Ecstasies I've played (101b, Classic). Nice amp.

20th Shiva : Nice amp as well with a more aggressive voicing than the Ecstasy, which is what I normally go for. But it didn't sound quite as good as the 20th Ecstasy because, although the bottom end is unquestionably tighter on the Shiva, the mids and highs were somewhat smeared and vague compared to the stringier definition of the Ecstasy. To use the cliched term again, it was more organic than the Shiva.

Which version of the Shiva are you referring too. There is a big difference between the el, kt and 6L versions. As a EL guy I can tell you the KT 20th Sh. is brutal but more hi fi. The El34 is VERY organic. Id say more so then the 20th x even. But the Kt and 6Ls tend to be more hi fi and less organic.

 

[thegame]

Briefly played a 20th Ecstasy and 20th Shiva.

20th Ecstasy : right away I heard more definition and harmonic detail compared to older Ecstasies I've played (101b, Classic). Nice amp.

20th Shiva : Nice amp as well with a more aggressive voicing than the Ecstasy, which is what I normally go for. But it didn't sound quite as good as the 20th Ecstasy because, although the bottom end is unquestionably tighter on the Shiva, the mids and highs were somewhat smeared and vague compared to the stringier definition of the Ecstasy. To use the cliched term again, it was more organic than the Shiva.

Which version of the Shiva are you referring too. There is a big difference between the el, kt and 6L versions. As a EL guy I can tell you the KT 20th Sh. is brutal but more hi fi. The El34 is VERY organic. Id say more so then the 20th x even. But the Kt and 6Ls tend to be more hi fi and less organic.

Actually I tried KT 20th & EL34 Shivas that day. They all had their strong points but for that one particular aspect I was referencing, the 20th X had a certain clarity in the mids neither Shiva could get IMO.

 

[Red_Label]

I say get a Classic and an Uberschall and have the best of all worlds...

I can attest to the fact that a Classic and a Twin Jet run in stereo is one of the fattest, most-alive, boner-inducing tones that has ever emanated from my man cave!

 

[RG955TT]

At first I was thinking I still liked my 101B better than the 20th which is more modern, however after A/B ing them side by side the clarity in the 20th was clearly evident. PLayed with tubes a bit and I do use the vintage mode on the 20th sometimes too, less bottom and top, and just warm and familiar tones that I grew up with but thicker and better.

 

[Ventura]

So, in summary, best amp evar!?!?!?!

 

[RSRD]

So, in summary, best amp evar!?!?!?!

Yes behind the 20th Shiva

 

[RSRD]

In all seriousness thanks to Reinhold for making such amazing amplifiers. Deeply indebted to the man who made both the shiva and ecstasy