the FINAL word on the Kemper

[HilltopExplosion]

Ford didn't invent the internal combustion engine ( tube amps), yet Chevy, Toyota, and every other vehicle, except battery operated cars (profilers) have them. Let the market decide. I spent a buttload of money on my tube amp/s.. because they kick ass and they are innovative. If amp builders keep making better products, they will be sold.

I bought a 5150 head, years back for 400 bucks. I said " I would never spend a thousand dollars on an amp! That's stupid!" Well... I'm stupid!

 

[Tone Monster]

Wasn't the final word afterall...

 

[shreder75]

The real final word is "zyxt." Just saying.

 

[squank]

So, I guess tone ISN'T all in the hands then...

 

[BMoore77]

Does anyone really believe that Kemper is ruining the boutique amp business? LOL. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Turning this into a "holier than thou" argument on business ethics is a joke. What's even a bigger joke is someone who decides to buy 30k worth of high end, hand wired, point to point, highest grade this and that gear and then realizing it can be copied at the drop of a hat by modern technology. Even funnier is that 30k worth of gear can still produce clips of some of the most god awful, mistake ridden playing ever heard. But I digress...Either way, the amp building business is such a limited market and alot of it is it's own doing. Kemper isn't hurting their business, neither is a lack of guitar driven music nowadays. The boutique amp builders limit themselves. The quality of the amp justifies a higher price...way higher. Look at this forum. Most people here are not in active bands..and I'm not talking about a club cover band or playing at church (which begs the question: Why would you need a Friedman BE100 at Sunday worship?) Remember when you were trying to start a band way back when? Maybe heading out to L.A. to try your luck? Could you afford a Soldano? How about grabbing a new Steve Stevens Signature amp with matching cab?...anyone? Lets face it, most people here are going for the holy grail of tone knowing damn well they arent trying to make music their full time career. And that's fine. Kinda like the old guy in Miami who drives around in a high powered sports car. Again, who cares..But most people who are trying to go "all in" and are trying to make it in the music business before they get old (old being over 27) couldnt even fathom unloading 3k on an amp when you have shit like rent and food to worry about. 40 yr old lawyers who play on weekends dont have to worry about that. just sayin'...I wish Kemper nothing but the best.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Does anyone really believe that Kemper is ruining the boutique amp business? LOL. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Turning this into a "holier than thou" argument on business ethics is a joke. What's even a bigger joke is someone who decides to buy 30k worth of high end, hand wired, point to point, highest grade this and that gear and then realizing it can be copied at the drop of a hat by modern technology. Even funnier is that 30k worth of gear can still produce clips of some of the most god awful, mistake ridden playing ever heard. But I digress...Either way, the amp building business is such a limited market and alot of it is it's own doing. Kemper isn't hurting their business, neither is a lack of guitar driven music nowadays. The boutique amp builders limit themselves. The quality of the amp justifies a higher price...way higher. Look at this forum. Most people here are not in active bands..and I'm not talking about a club cover band or playing at church (which begs the question: Why would you need a Friedman BE100 at Sunday worship?) Remember when you were trying to start a band way back when? Maybe heading out to L.A. to try your luck? Could you afford a Soldano? How about grabbing a new Steve Stevens Signature amp with matching cab?...anyone? Lets face it, most people here are going for the holy grail of tone knowing damn well they arent trying to make music their full time career. And that's fine. Kinda like the old guy in Miami who drives around in a high powered sports car. Again, who cares..But most people who are trying to go "all in" and are trying to make it in the music business before they get old (old being over 27) couldnt even fathom unloading 3k on an amp when you have shit like rent and food to worry about. 40 yr old lawyers who play on weekends dont have to worry about that. just sayin'...I wish Kemper nothing but the best.

Nailed it.

 

[PBGas]

Does anyone really believe that Kemper is ruining the boutique amp business? LOL. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Turning this into a "holier than thou" argument on business ethics is a joke. What's even a bigger joke is someone who decides to buy 30k worth of high end, hand wired, point to point, highest grade this and that gear and then realizing it can be copied at the drop of a hat by modern technology. Even funnier is that 30k worth of gear can still produce clips of some of the most god awful, mistake ridden playing ever heard. But I digress...Either way, the amp building business is such a limited market and alot of it is it's own doing. Kemper isn't hurting their business, neither is a lack of guitar driven music nowadays. The boutique amp builders limit themselves. The quality of the amp justifies a higher price...way higher. Look at this forum. Most people here are not in active bands..and I'm not talking about a club cover band or playing at church (which begs the question: Why would you need a Friedman BE100 at Sunday worship?) Remember when you were trying to start a band way back when? Maybe heading out to L.A. to try your luck? Could you afford a Soldano? How about grabbing a new Steve Stevens Signature amp with matching cab?...anyone? Lets face it, most people here are going for the holy grail of tone knowing damn well they arent trying to make music their full time career. And that's fine. Kinda like the old guy in Miami who drives around in a high powered sports car. Again, who cares..But most people who are trying to go "all in" and are trying to make it in the music business before they get old (old being over 27) couldnt even fathom unloading 3k on an amp when you have shit like rent and food to worry about. 40 yr old lawyers who play on weekends dont have to worry about that. just sayin'...I wish Kemper nothing but the best.

Lots of truth here!

Use what you have, enjoy what you have!
If you make a few $$$ on the side with it then all the more power to you.

The next big thing will come out and many of us will go "I gotta have it!"....and so the cycle begins again and again.

 

[Anonymous]

Does anyone really believe that Kemper is ruining the boutique amp business? LOL. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Turning this into a "holier than thou" argument on business ethics is a joke. What's even a bigger joke is someone who decides to buy 30k worth of high end, hand wired, point to point, highest grade this and that gear and then realizing it can be copied at the drop of a hat by modern technology. Even funnier is that 30k worth of gear can still produce clips of some of the most god awful, mistake ridden playing ever heard. But I digress...Either way, the amp building business is such a limited market and alot of it is it's own doing. Kemper isn't hurting their business, neither is a lack of guitar driven music nowadays. The boutique amp builders limit themselves. The quality of the amp justifies a higher price...way higher. Look at this forum. Most people here are not in active bands..and I'm not talking about a club cover band or playing at church (which begs the question: Why would you need a Friedman BE100 at Sunday worship?) Remember when you were trying to start a band way back when? Maybe heading out to L.A. to try your luck? Could you afford a Soldano? How about grabbing a new Steve Stevens Signature amp with matching cab?...anyone? Lets face it, most people here are going for the holy grail of tone knowing damn well they arent trying to make music their full time career. And that's fine. Kinda like the old guy in Miami who drives around in a high powered sports car. Again, who cares..But most people who are trying to go "all in" and are trying to make it in the music business before they get old (old being over 27) couldnt even fathom unloading 3k on an amp when you have shit like rent and food to worry about. 40 yr old lawyers who play on weekends dont have to worry about that. just sayin'...I wish Kemper nothing but the best.

My comment was not on the boutique amp industry, which is clearly limited in the way you discuss. I'm talking about the amp business in general, which, if anything is "killing" it (which is a questionable comment in itself), it IS the lack of interest in guitar driven music by the young. If you looked at the demographics for who is buying the 5150 III 50 watter, I bet it's mostly older dudes....

Steve

 

[Scarified]

Can someone explain to me how the Kemper works for recording? Can I apply it like I would apply a VST to a raw wav? Sorry I don't know much about them. I love my VSTs and I am just not convinced that the Kemper is 2000 times better than the freeware lepou stuff or like the thermionik stuff. I know it's obviously better but how does it work exactly?

 

[Spaceboy]

This dude is a goof and his complaints are nonsense.

 

[BMoore77]

Does anyone really believe that Kemper is ruining the boutique amp business? LOL. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Turning this into a "holier than thou" argument on business ethics is a joke. What's even a bigger joke is someone who decides to buy 30k worth of high end, hand wired, point to point, highest grade this and that gear and then realizing it can be copied at the drop of a hat by modern technology. Even funnier is that 30k worth of gear can still produce clips of some of the most god awful, mistake ridden playing ever heard. But I digress...Either way, the amp building business is such a limited market and alot of it is it's own doing. Kemper isn't hurting their business, neither is a lack of guitar driven music nowadays. The boutique amp builders limit themselves. The quality of the amp justifies a higher price...way higher. Look at this forum. Most people here are not in active bands..and I'm not talking about a club cover band or playing at church (which begs the question: Why would you need a Friedman BE100 at Sunday worship?) Remember when you were trying to start a band way back when? Maybe heading out to L.A. to try your luck? Could you afford a Soldano? How about grabbing a new Steve Stevens Signature amp with matching cab?...anyone? Lets face it, most people here are going for the holy grail of tone knowing damn well they arent trying to make music their full time career. And that's fine. Kinda like the old guy in Miami who drives around in a high powered sports car. Again, who cares..But most people who are trying to go "all in" and are trying to make it in the music business before they get old (old being over 27) couldnt even fathom unloading 3k on an amp when you have shit like rent and food to worry about. 40 yr old lawyers who play on weekends dont have to worry about that. just sayin'...I wish Kemper nothing but the best.

My comment was not on the boutique amp industry, which is clearly limited in the way you discuss. I'm talking about the amp business in general, which, if anything is "killing" it (which is a questionable comment in itself), it IS the lack of interest in guitar driven music by the young. If you looked at the demographics for who is buying the 5150 III 50 watter, I bet it's mostly older dudes....

Steve

Could'nt disagree more....take a walk in downtown Nashville and tell me there is a lack of interest in guitar driven music. Granted, they may not wear striped spandex pants and eyeliner, but trust me when I tell you, the interest is huge. It just may not be your version of what guitar driven music is.

 

[Racerxrated]

Does anyone really believe that Kemper is ruining the boutique amp business? LOL. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Turning this into a "holier than thou" argument on business ethics is a joke. What's even a bigger joke is someone who decides to buy 30k worth of high end, hand wired, point to point, highest grade this and that gear and then realizing it can be copied at the drop of a hat by modern technology. Even funnier is that 30k worth of gear can still produce clips of some of the most god awful, mistake ridden playing ever heard. But I digress...Either way, the amp building business is such a limited market and alot of it is it's own doing. Kemper isn't hurting their business, neither is a lack of guitar driven music nowadays. The boutique amp builders limit themselves. The quality of the amp justifies a higher price...way higher. Look at this forum. Most people here are not in active bands..and I'm not talking about a club cover band or playing at church (which begs the question: Why would you need a Friedman BE100 at Sunday worship?) Remember when you were trying to start a band way back when? Maybe heading out to L.A. to try your luck? Could you afford a Soldano? How about grabbing a new Steve Stevens Signature amp with matching cab?...anyone? Lets face it, most people here are going for the holy grail of tone knowing damn well they arent trying to make music their full time career. And that's fine. Kinda like the old guy in Miami who drives around in a high powered sports car. Again, who cares..But most people who are trying to go "all in" and are trying to make it in the music business before they get old (old being over 27) couldnt even fathom unloading 3k on an amp when you have shit like rent and food to worry about. 40 yr old lawyers who play on weekends dont have to worry about that. just sayin'...I wish Kemper nothing but the best.

My comment was not on the boutique amp industry, which is clearly limited in the way you discuss. I'm talking about the amp business in general, which, if anything is "killing" it (which is a questionable comment in itself), it IS the lack of interest in guitar driven music by the young. If you looked at the demographics for who is buying the 5150 III 50 watter, I bet it's mostly older dudes....

Steve

Could'nt disagree more....take a walk in downtown Nashville and tell me there is a lack of interest in guitar driven music. Granted, they may not wear striped spandex pants and eyeliner, but trust me when I tell you, the interest is huge. It just may not be your version of what guitar driven music is.

Nashville is the exception though, don't you think? Its always been a music scene mecca for country, blues...but most other major cities have seen a huge drop in clubs that even book bands. When you listen to top 40 its mostly hip hop techno fluff whatever. Not a lot of guitar driven music, like Steve says. Country is the new rock in the sense that guitar is still a mainstay instrument. Kids just don't pick up the guitar at a young age like they used to 20-30 years ago. But, I don't think the tube amp is threatened at all. Look at how many amazing amp builders are out there, and with all that variety that we never had years ago. Not that we could afford them back then, as you mentioned.

 

[BMoore77]

Does anyone really believe that Kemper is ruining the boutique amp business? LOL. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Turning this into a "holier than thou" argument on business ethics is a joke. What's even a bigger joke is someone who decides to buy 30k worth of high end, hand wired, point to point, highest grade this and that gear and then realizing it can be copied at the drop of a hat by modern technology. Even funnier is that 30k worth of gear can still produce clips of some of the most god awful, mistake ridden playing ever heard. But I digress...Either way, the amp building business is such a limited market and alot of it is it's own doing. Kemper isn't hurting their business, neither is a lack of guitar driven music nowadays. The boutique amp builders limit themselves. The quality of the amp justifies a higher price...way higher. Look at this forum. Most people here are not in active bands..and I'm not talking about a club cover band or playing at church (which begs the question: Why would you need a Friedman BE100 at Sunday worship?) Remember when you were trying to start a band way back when? Maybe heading out to L.A. to try your luck? Could you afford a Soldano? How about grabbing a new Steve Stevens Signature amp with matching cab?...anyone? Lets face it, most people here are going for the holy grail of tone knowing damn well they arent trying to make music their full time career. And that's fine. Kinda like the old guy in Miami who drives around in a high powered sports car. Again, who cares..But most people who are trying to go "all in" and are trying to make it in the music business before they get old (old being over 27) couldnt even fathom unloading 3k on an amp when you have shit like rent and food to worry about. 40 yr old lawyers who play on weekends dont have to worry about that. just sayin'...I wish Kemper nothing but the best.

My comment was not on the boutique amp industry, which is clearly limited in the way you discuss. I'm talking about the amp business in general, which, if anything is "killing" it (which is a questionable comment in itself), it IS the lack of interest in guitar driven music by the young. If you looked at the demographics for who is buying the 5150 III 50 watter, I bet it's mostly older dudes....

Steve

Could'nt disagree more....take a walk in downtown Nashville and tell me there is a lack of interest in guitar driven music. Granted, they may not wear striped spandex pants and eyeliner, but trust me when I tell you, the interest is huge. It just may not be your version of what guitar driven music is.

Nashville is the exception though, don't you think? Its always been a music scene mecca for country, blues...but most other major cities have seen a huge drop in clubs that even book bands. When you listen to top 40 its mostly hip hop techno fluff whatever. Not a lot of guitar driven music, like Steve says. Country is the new rock in the sense that guitar is still a mainstay instrument. Kids just don't pick up the guitar at a young age like they used to 20-30 years ago. But, I don't think the tube amp is threatened at all. Look at how many amazing amp builders are out there, and with all that variety that we never had years ago. Not that we could afford them back then, as you mentioned.

Nashville isnt the only place where this music is huge..there are scenes all over....I will guarantee you that most major cities in America have at least 2 radio stations dedicated only to this music. The sales of this genre are through the roof. Look at some of the sidemen they use on guitar..alot are shredders that throw in EVH or Slash licks in their solos when they play live. All these players like Urban and Paisley are gear nerds just like us. Look at the stage shows...some of these guys play stadiums, let alone arenas. This is the arena rock of today. Mason is like their version of Luke. And the crop of young bands that are flooding the market remind me of when we got the 4th tier hair bands back in the day. Please dont take this as arguing with you...its just a conversation. There are still a ton of people picking up the guitar. And they cant afford boutique heads and custom cabs when they are starting to play out with their bands. But back to the Kemper, I will say that alot of guys cannot tell the difference from the real thing. I was reading about some guys that actually do world tours swear by them and the big plus is that they can leave their modded or vintage stuff at home safe and sound. This whole thing boils down to a guy being pissed off that someone can clone the tones of their overpriced amp collection for way less than 30 grand. And I think that's awesome.

 

[vultures]

As he sits in his studio with a Soldano, Diezel, Suhr, Laboga, Blackhearts, Mesa, ENGLs, Carr, etc,.. He just sounds incredibly aggrieved at an amp that can do it all. He goes on for a full half hour about an amp that "can't" get those sounds, but it would be wrong if it could. It's essentially the best marketing/promotion someone could give the Kemper.

I bought a Kemper because I can't afford to buy a Mesa Mark IV, ENGL Powerball, Diezel VH4, 5150 III, Suhr, Carr, Marshall JVM and all those other amps at the same time. For me it's perfect to have any amp at the flick of a switch without spending thousands. Also what about amps that are hard to come by, rare, or ridiculously expensive? Mesa Mark IIC+, Jose Modded Marshalls, Cameron Modded Marshalls, Dumbles or other bologna I can't think of off the top of my head. Make a profile of it, bam now you can buy/share/giveaway a Jose Modded Marshall Profile and have that sweet sweet sound.

 

[DannyM]

I've owned, played and recorded with a Kemper. Nice and cool piece of gear. No way does it feel like a real amp in person. It might sound real on a recording...but so do other things. https://soundcloud.com/slaytanic-1/domination that's 100% EzMix 2, no real amp, mics, or cabs.....fake....like a Kemper.

Does it sound real? Maybe. Can anyone know or tell the difference if I hadn't told them its fake? Who cares?

Does a Line 6 Variax guitar cross the line? Do fake tits cross the line? Does imitation crab cross the line?
Line 6 Variax....child pleeeze!

I dont like fake tits....they taste funny. I dont like fake/modeler amps in a live situation...they feel funny.

For recording situations the kemper is cool...but so are other "fake" things.

I do not under stand why Kemper is making people butt hurt....modelers have been around for awhile now. Maybe modelers and technology are getting so good that studio guys are afraid that normal peeps like you and me will be able to make decent/good/great sounding recordings without the need to spend money for their services?

Notice it is a studio guy bitching and not the amp makers?

If the amp makers have an issue with tone "piracy" then they should invent a way to prevent it from being pirated.

Don't expect the retailers to change their return/exchange policy anytime soon. They need to compete for sales.

Don't expect Kemper owners to stop taking advantage of these return policies. They aint breaking laws by buying an amp, profiling it, and returning it within the return window.

All you kemper owners are douche bags....LOL....J/K

I kept waiting for Lars to jump in with this studio guy

Kemper selling Licensing for amps is stupid....I guess you want Kemper to be in charge of all the profiles?
So no one will be able to create or share their own profiles anymore? Lame...that will kill the Kemper sales.
Who would pay kemper for a license when EZMIX2 doesn't charge for Andy Sneap tones? (which are also based on REAL amps)

That was also my FINAL word on this topic \m/

 

[dfrattaroli]

I have a 16 year old son. When I was 16, I could walk into the school cafeteria, close my eyes and spit, and hit a guitar player, a bassist, a drummer, some musician. That is just not the case any more. All of my kid's friend's parents can talk music with me. My son and his friends? Nope. They know a lot about ugly expensive sneakers though. This is why, if anything, music is dying. They don't have to create it. They can just download it for free.

 

[Vrad]

Ok guys. Since everyone is being intellectual about this topic, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. This is based purely on MY experience with the Kemper, but given that I'm an average guy it would probably apply to most.

The Kemper is a phenomenal tool. To me, it captures 90% of the tone AND feel of the real amp. That said, it is not a Tube Amp Killer for the simple reason that the number of variations that are possible between signal chain, effects, settings etc. for any given amp are limitless. In that regard, it's no more a Tube Amp Killer than it is a Microphone or Mic Pre Killer. Simply from personal experience, I can tell you that creating a profile is very much a matter of personal taste. I don't like most other profiles that I hear. Not because they're bad, but because they don't suit me.

Like many folks, I bought the Kemper thinking it would be the Be All End All and I'd never ever need another tube amp as long as I live. The result was I became so addicted to profiling that I've been buying MORE amps and pedals than ever! Guess what?! All this led me to start selling profiles with the intention of funding more gear to profile. So how in the world would that adversely affect the amp market exactly? It doesn't!

Here's the thing. Amp manufacturers are a particular brand of nuts. They're secretive about how they got their "special sauce" and time and time again, when folks dissect and reverse-engineer legendary amps they often find that the "11 herbs and spices" are nothing more than salt and pepper and a bunch of bullshit. What I'm saying is there's nothing particularly innovative about tube amps and there hasn't been in 30 years. They all know that and they're afraid that modelers and profilers will ruin them. Instead of fearing this technology, they need to figure out a way to embrace it. If I was a successful amp manufacturer, I would be asking myself "How can I leverage this technology". I wouldn't be too nervous because "Tube Purists" will always buy the amp, broke musicians will never be able to afford the amp and the guys who profile will all want to get the real deal to create their take on it. Don't get me wrong, there will always be unscrupulous people who abuse return policies but that will ultimately bite them in the ass. We've all shipped amps and we all know it's a hassle. I wouldn't want that to be 50% of my business. Also, I really doubt that anyone is retiring on their vast Kemper Profiling Empire any time soon. There's simply no meaningful money to be made from profiling so to take on the financial risk of buying a $3500 Friedman BE100 with the intention of profiling it and returning it seems very risky to me.

In short, I don't know why the amp market is in a state of decline or if this is even the case. Look around this forum. Go into the "Post Your Rig" thread that YngZakLynch started. There's rigs in there that would make arena headliners jealous! At any given time, there's 3-4 Friedman threads on this board. So if amp sales are plunging, it's surely NOT because of modelers or the Kemper. I would hazard a guess that it has to do more with the economy(less disposable income), lack of interest in guitar-based music and the fact that the price of amps has gone up drastically in the last several years. I remember not too long ago, $2500 would get you a boutique amp. Now it gets you a Mesa LOL

Anyway, that's my take

 

[Spaceboy]

A musician is simply an artist, someone who finds an available medium in their life to express themselves. There was a time when guitars and traditional rock instruments where everywhere in the media, and these were the most available tools for sonic expression. There has been a shift the past three decades towards music being created by other means, and the digital age has been a huge factor in that. Slowly, popular music has shifted according to available technology and mediums for young people to express themselves. Music is not dying because of downloads and while it may seem that guitar based music is waning, there is no shortage of creativity out there.

This is an entirely different subject from the OP though and would certainly be met by older guys comparing instrumental skill to some imagined ease in creation of digital music, which still says nothing about artistry and creativity. But, my point is, if you think music is dying, that's only because you've gotten too old and too obsessed over the guitar to appreciate music as a simple aural expression according to an artist's means to create.

Popular music is less than 100 years old. You can't expect the rock age to last forever.

The Kemper is a cool invention but isn't bringing down any companies. The YouTube dork is talking out of his ass.

 

[shreder75]

Ok guys. Since everyone is being intellectual about this topic, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. This is based purely on MY experience with the Kemper, but given that I'm an average guy it would probably apply to most.

The Kemper is a phenomenal tool. To me, it captures 90% of the tone AND feel of the real amp. That said, it is not a Tube Amp Killer for the simple reason that the number of variations that are possible between signal chain, effects, settings etc. for any given amp are limitless. In that regard, it's no more a Tube Amp Killer than it is a Microphone or Mic Pre Killer. Simply from personal experience, I can tell you that creating a profile is very much a matter of personal taste. I don't like most other profiles that I hear. Not because they're bad, but because they don't suit me.

Like many folks, I bought the Kemper thinking it would be the Be All End All and I'd never ever need another tube amp as long as I live. The result was I became so addicted to profiling that I've been buying MORE amps and pedals than ever! Guess what?! All this led me to start selling profiles with the intention of funding more gear to profile. So how in the world would that adversely affect the amp market exactly? It doesn't!

Here's the thing. Amp manufacturers are a particular brand of nuts. They're secretive about how they got their "special sauce" and time and time again, when folks dissect and reverse-engineer legendary amps they often find that the "11 herbs and spices" are nothing more than salt and pepper and a bunch of bullshit. What I'm saying is there's nothing particularly innovative about tube amps and there hasn't been in 30 years. They all know that and they're afraid that modelers and profilers will ruin them. Instead of fearing this technology, they need to figure out a way to embrace it. If I was a successful amp manufacturer, I would be asking myself "How can I leverage this technology". I wouldn't be too nervous because "Tube Purists" will always buy the amp, broke musicians will never be able to afford the amp and the guys who profile will all want to get the real deal to create their take on it. Don't get me wrong, there will always be unscrupulous people who abuse return policies but that will ultimately bite them in the ass. We've all shipped amps and we all know it's a hassle. I wouldn't want that to be 50% of my business. Also, I really doubt that anyone is retiring on their vast Kemper Profiling Empire any time soon. There's simply no meaningful money to be made from profiling so to take on the financial risk of buying a $3500 Friedman BE100 with the intention of profiling it and returning it seems very risky to me.

In short, I don't know why the amp market is in a state of decline or if this is even the case. Look around this forum. Go into the "Post Your Rig" thread that YngZakLynch started. There's rigs in there that would make arena headliners jealous! At any given time, there's 3-4 Friedman threads on this board. So if amp sales are plunging, it's surely NOT because of modelers or the Kemper. I would hazard a guess that it has to do more with the economy(less disposable income), lack of interest in guitar-based music and the fact that the price of amps has gone up drastically in the last several years. I remember not too long ago, $2500 would get you a boutique amp. Now it gets you a Mesa LOL

Anyway, that's my take

Remember when you could get a new cab for $700 and change? Now they're mostly a grand and up.

New slo, $4400. New friedman, $3700. I think I saw a metro plexi amp for over three grand. And people are buying them. Hell, you can get new amps imported from Germany for a little over 2k (engl). Used to be that those were the pricy ones. Go figure.

 

[Vrad]

Ok guys. Since everyone is being intellectual about this topic, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. This is based purely on MY experience with the Kemper, but given that I'm an average guy it would probably apply to most.

The Kemper is a phenomenal tool. To me, it captures 90% of the tone AND feel of the real amp. That said, it is not a Tube Amp Killer for the simple reason that the number of variations that are possible between signal chain, effects, settings etc. for any given amp are limitless. In that regard, it's no more a Tube Amp Killer than it is a Microphone or Mic Pre Killer. Simply from personal experience, I can tell you that creating a profile is very much a matter of personal taste. I don't like most other profiles that I hear. Not because they're bad, but because they don't suit me.

Like many folks, I bought the Kemper thinking it would be the Be All End All and I'd never ever need another tube amp as long as I live. The result was I became so addicted to profiling that I've been buying MORE amps and pedals than ever! Guess what?! All this led me to start selling profiles with the intention of funding more gear to profile. So how in the world would that adversely affect the amp market exactly? It doesn't!

Here's the thing. Amp manufacturers are a particular brand of nuts. They're secretive about how they got their "special sauce" and time and time again, when folks dissect and reverse-engineer legendary amps they often find that the "11 herbs and spices" are nothing more than salt and pepper and a bunch of bullshit. What I'm saying is there's nothing particularly innovative about tube amps and there hasn't been in 30 years. They all know that and they're afraid that modelers and profilers will ruin them. Instead of fearing this technology, they need to figure out a way to embrace it. If I was a successful amp manufacturer, I would be asking myself "How can I leverage this technology". I wouldn't be too nervous because "Tube Purists" will always buy the amp, broke musicians will never be able to afford the amp and the guys who profile will all want to get the real deal to create their take on it. Don't get me wrong, there will always be unscrupulous people who abuse return policies but that will ultimately bite them in the ass. We've all shipped amps and we all know it's a hassle. I wouldn't want that to be 50% of my business. Also, I really doubt that anyone is retiring on their vast Kemper Profiling Empire any time soon. There's simply no meaningful money to be made from profiling so to take on the financial risk of buying a $3500 Friedman BE100 with the intention of profiling it and returning it seems very risky to me.

In short, I don't know why the amp market is in a state of decline or if this is even the case. Look around this forum. Go into the "Post Your Rig" thread that YngZakLynch started. There's rigs in there that would make arena headliners jealous! At any given time, there's 3-4 Friedman threads on this board. So if amp sales are plunging, it's surely NOT because of modelers or the Kemper. I would hazard a guess that it has to do more with the economy(less disposable income), lack of interest in guitar-based music and the fact that the price of amps has gone up drastically in the last several years. I remember not too long ago, $2500 would get you a boutique amp. Now it gets you a Mesa LOL

Anyway, that's my take

Remember when you could get a new cab for $700 and change? Now they're mostly a grand and up.

New slo, $4400. New friedman, $3700. I think I saw a metro plexi amp for over three grand. And people are buying them. Hell, you can get new amps imported from Germany for a little over 2k (engl). Used to be that those were the pricy ones. Go figure.

Marshalls and Mesa are in boutique range nowadays. "Budget" amps go for $1900 lol