The Premium Jerks

MistaGuitah said:
If you bought a regular American strat for $1000 a few
years ago and are now trying to sell it for $1500 just because new ones cost $2000 then you're just taking a gross opportunity for selfish gain. What the hell man? A reasonable person of decent conscience would be satisfied with getting the amount they paid. Yet, a person of good conscience and higher moral character would consider some degree of devaluation since we would want the same kind of standard measured to us.
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Let's suppose that the consensus for an exellent condition, not very used Fender is -30% of the brand new price.
You bought it brand new for $1000 years ago, you could sell for $700 add $300 from your pocket and get a brand new one in a new color you prefer.

Today it costs brand new $2000, if you sell it for $700, you need $1300 from your pocket to get a brand new one in your new favorite color. Even if you sell for $1400 you will need $600 which is the double of what was previsouly needed.

I can make sense and agree of everything else you said like flipping.
 
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tlp1234 said:
And that final number is what you put in your pocket or bank account after the sale.

There's no shortage of things I see for sale that elicit the "WTF!?!? no way they'll ever get that!!!!". But who knows what they really get in the final sale/trade? Though I digress.....of course I don't have to buy "IT".

What concerns me more than all this is the possiblity of a CBDC and the somewhat silent buy in by the FOMC/Federal Reserve.

Not to take away from or disrespect the thread OP though.......yeah brother I get it, but there's nothing we can do about it except "not buy it". School of hard knocks shows me to not waste energy on things I can't do anything about.

I hope I'm wrong about this, and forgive me if you can as I believe many are fatigued of socio-political-economic discussions and debates. But I believe most of this will be mute/eclipsed by far greater problems with US "house of cards-bubblicious-terminally-over-leveraged" economy.

Love you guys.....too bad we can't discuss things without the insults and snark. Oh well.....just the way it is ;(
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All good points and CBDC is a huge concern for me as well.

If we do wind up with a CBDC, then we can always form our own trading/barter community. This way no currency would need be exchanged.
 
Racerxrated said:
Dude, you are HIM. The one and only, former poster who threatened to kick someone’s ass on a golf course in Texas!

Unless you’re not, then I’m mistaken. 😬

When it comes to buying/selling, the market is what it is. My 08/09 Charvels have become collectible…going for 2K +. If I sell one, I’d ask 2K…but mostly because it’s been upgraded to an 86 OFR, titanium block, Trem stop, cream pup rings and cream Tone Nerd pups, and is in NOS condition.
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Yeah but that's not really an unreasonable thing because there's a certain degree of collectibility in such items. I wasn't talking about that kind of thing but people who take selfish advantage of the trade community. I'm not going to call anyone out personally or point to the forum but I recently saw a guy listing a discontinued amp for around $2000 (nothing collectible or sought after but discontinued because it wasn't good) that I know sold for $900 to $1000 while they were around. he used deceptive terms like "rare," "collector's" etc. even though it was not. Nevertheless, he was able to con a couple of unsuspecting traders.

Reasonableness is an aspect behind all forms of reason, like law and ethnics, so why shouldn't it apply to trade? It's also a matter of conscience, as I also discussed. If you paid $1000 for a guitar that's relatively unremarkable and without any credible factor that could credibly sustain it's value but went off trying to get $2000 for it just because times are tough then how is that so different from price-gouging oil or medical companies? Not only that, but now much gain does someone need to make from something that doesn't retain it's value and immediately becomes a dud in the hands of whoever buys it? Don't you think it would be reasonable to break even or maybe make $100 or $200?

Look, you can always find YouTube videos of people showing how they paid $50 for something then sold it for $5000 with minimal effort. OK, so they didn't break the law or something but you can't pull something like that off without conning buyers in some way. It's one thing if someone found a piece of log on the roadside and used a high level of skill to turn it into a beautiful furniture piece, but to do that ostensibly without the skill and in the cheapest way possible is definitely not an honest practice.

Well, the fact is that people without integrity and conscience will never, ever understand these things. People who practice such things don't see any wrong in what they do, nor to they ever consider the effect of their actions. I could keep explaining but I've given plenty of clear logic and reasoning to lay it all out.

By the way, you are mistaken. I don't threaten people nor do I have any interest in violence at all. I spent a long time protecting people as a professional so enough of the crazy talk. I don't have any interest in all the digression in stupid commentary. The subject matter is clearly conveyed and it's a shame people don't have the capacity to discuss things objectively or philosophically.
 
RaceU4her said:
How does one get conned on pricing these days? You really gotta be shit all stupid to fall for terms like “rare” and not do a simple ten second google search to figure out what’s going on
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Do not assume everyone is like yourself, most people are stupid and it is virtually impossible to find a gear ad without any con. It is always vintage, rare, the same as the one by the famous band etc.
 
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MistaGuitah said:
Yeah but that's not really an unreasonable thing because there's a certain degree of collectibility in such items. I wasn't talking about that kind of thing but people who take selfish advantage of the trade community. I'm not going to call anyone out personally or point to the forum but I recently saw a guy listing a discontinued amp for around $2000 (nothing collectible or sought after but discontinued because it wasn't good) that I know sold for $900 to $1000 while they were around. he used deceptive terms like "rare," "collector's" etc. even though it was not. Nevertheless, he was able to con a couple of unsuspecting traders.

Reasonableness is an aspect behind all forms of reason, like law and ethnics, so why shouldn't it apply to trade? It's also a matter of conscience, as I also discussed. If you paid $1000 for a guitar that's relatively unremarkable and without any credible factor that could credibly sustain it's value but went off trying to get $2000 for it just because times are tough then how is that so different from price-gouging oil or medical companies? Not only that, but now much gain does someone need to make from something that doesn't retain it's value and immediately becomes a dud in the hands of whoever buys it? Don't you think it would be reasonable to break even or maybe make $100 or $200?

Look, you can always find YouTube videos of people showing how they paid $50 for something then sold it for $5000 with minimal effort. OK, so they didn't break the law or something but you can't pull something like that off without conning buyers in some way. It's one thing if someone found a piece of log on the roadside and used a high level of skill to turn it into a beautiful furniture piece, but to do that ostensibly without the skill and in the cheapest way possible is definitely not an honest practice.

Well, the fact is that people without integrity and conscience will never, ever understand these things. People who practice such things don't see any wrong in what they do, nor to they ever consider the effect of their actions. I could keep explaining but I've given plenty of clear logic and reasoning to lay it all out.

By the way, you are mistaken. I don't threaten people nor do I have any interest in violence at all. I spent a long time protecting people as a professional so enough of the crazy talk. I don't have any interest in all the digression in stupid commentary. The subject matter is clearly conveyed and it's a shame people don't have the capacity to discuss things objectively or philosophically.
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Are you a “slip & fall” attorney by profession?
 
MistaGuitah said:
When I said I don't speak in hypocrisy, I said it because I'm not the type of person who preaches one thing but practices another. Remember, I wasn't talking about reasonable trading but the constant hustle to glean excessive profits from trading. It's different from companies conducting business because trade is a guarded community of individuals who not only look for good deals but provide them for the sake of sustaining good trade.

Let me put it this way: There was a member selling a nice, new $3000 guitar for about $1600 on the forum. We've all had to take losses in order to make a quick sale or raise some needed cash so it's not something desirable but sort of unavoidable at times. That was a really great guitar that easily holds it's value around $2200, so $1600 was a fantastic deal. Next thing you know, someone buys it and and later lists it for $2200. There are rules that keep businesses from engaging in trade because it defeats the purpose of a trading community, so when members exploit that just to turn a profit, they're essentially engaging in a business practice. This contributes negatively and does have a collective effect. You could try to argue that but when you start seeing gear selling for more on a forum that eBay or Reverb then you can't deny it's effect.

Do you think it's fair to any of us who have tolerated losses for the sake of trade or just provided a great deal to other members? I don't think you would. It used to be that this would happen every now and then but now it's like a regular practice. Like I said, if I bought a new amp 10 years ago that retailed at $1200 then started asking $2000 for it 10 years later after a pandemic hit then it's just selfish gain. I explain this to bring awareness to basic concepts like collective gain and collective deterioration. Indeed, forums facilitate a rather carefully guarded trading community measured by feedback. Therefore, whoever acts only for personal benefit is operating not as a community member but as a selfish opportunist.

It's like when you list something on Reverb or eBay and there's always that one guy who comes along and lists the same thing dirt cheap so no one even bothers looking at other listings. That happens a couple of times and next thing you know a guy walks into Guitar Center for a trade-in and gets a diminished value based on previous listings, so he gets less than he should because someone undercut everyone else. Of course, we don't know the seller's situation so it's just one of those things that happens sometimes.

However, what should be understood here is that there's a broader cause & effect to the things people do. It's common-sense stuff, as I'd explained, but people are less and less inclined to contemplate things these days so it's like trying to explain physics to a dishwasher. Think of it like a restaurant: someone goes in, eats, licks their fingers, picks their nose, doesn't wash their hands after using the bathroom, then handles a salt shaker, ketchup bottle, or buffet spoon. Next thing you know, someone gets sick because that nasty person had no conscience whatsoever about spreading germs. It's simple cause & effect, common-sense, and common decency that may not be possible in broader society but more consequential among a community.
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LAW OF SUPPLY & DEMAND = LIFE EATS LIFE.
 
MistaGuitah said:
You're no loss to me whatsoever so don't grossly overestimate your own worth
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Is the point that we all enjoy the feeling of giving/receiving a good deal and unreasonably high prices and improper sales tactics are undesirable? I think there's consensus there. If you believe your point is still being missed it's reasonable to consider you're capable of missing a point as well. That being, you're kind of coming off as a righteous dick whether you mean to or not. Truly, I mean that as respectfully as you are willing to receive it. As a red blooded American living in a Capitalist society I know you recognize that it doesn't come as second nature to leave money on the table for the sake of moral satisfaction. I'm not sure you're being intillectually honest about that fact that you're asking American humans not to be so...American and human...on a forum
 
But then you have guys like John Suhr that thinks 8K is a reasonable fair price for a guitar.

Yet there is always some dumb sap that is going to pay that 8k, it's a dog eat dog world.
 
The seller always has the upper hand like it or not. I only buy local and had my eye out for a Royal MSG head for years—one morning I see one on Reverb about an hour away but priced over $1000 more than new. I wait a couple weeks then reach out and offer him what I feel is a reasonable price. He tells me not a chance and he won’t do local pickup and I’m a sleazebag for ‘lowballing’ him…. Annoying but hey it’s his amp and prob still is.

Found a mint Royal MSG100 2hrs away last month for close to half of what I had offered. Great amp btw.
 
tallcoolone said:
The seller always has the upper hand like it or not. I only buy local and had my eye out for a Royal MSG head for years—one morning I see one on Reverb about an hour away but priced over $1000 more than new. I wait a couple weeks then reach out and offer him what I feel is a reasonable price. He tells me not a chance and he won’t do local pickup and I’m a sleazebag for ‘lowballing’ him…. Annoying but hey it’s his amp and prob still is.

Found a mint Royal MSG100 2hrs away last month for close to half of what I had offered. Great amp btw.
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Damn -I thought I was the only one that ever owned one of those !
 
tallcoolone said:
The seller always has the upper hand like it or not. I only buy local and had my eye out for a Royal MSG head for years—one morning I see one on Reverb about an hour away but priced over $1000 more than new. I wait a couple weeks then reach out and offer him what I feel is a reasonable price. He tells me not a chance and he won’t do local pickup and I’m a sleazebag for ‘lowballing’ him…. Annoying but hey it’s his amp and prob still is.

Found a mint Royal MSG100 2hrs away last month for close to half of what I had offered. Great amp btw.
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there was a msg100 on my craigslist for months and months for $1500 a while back, i wish i grabbed it
 
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