The Premium Jerks

M

MistaGuitah

Well-known member
Man, I'm going to rant a little about something I think is rather dishonest and kind of petty. There are so many guys listing gear for premium prices knowing they never even paid half as much for it. Of course there are some exceptions depending on the rarity, demand, and condition, etc., but someone has to have a real crap conscience to make $1000 as the 3rd owner of something they got dirt cheap from a desperate trader. I'm not talking about anything within reason here but there's just a gross practice of this going on these days.

Yeah, I'm sure the Karens will come out swinging on this one but I've gotta say it's just petty opportunism on inflation and desperation. Personally, I wouldn't really seek to profit from something that's actually devalued just because times are tough and supply is strained. It's like taking a big dump after someone already farted and stank up the place. It just makes things a lot worse.

One of the joys of trading is giving people a great deal. That might seem dumb to many people but most people are selfish, self-centered, and greedy. I appreciate people who genuinely appreciate a good deal. I once sold a few guitars to a guy who still has them and has used them to record in albums. That puts a smile on my face knowing he really appreciated the deal enough to email me 2 years later with a pic of the guitars in his studio and convey thanks. Sometimes we have to sell gear we love and hope it will not be sold in vain - that perhaps the buyer will cherish it as much as us, give it a good home, and make some beautiful music with it. We've all gotten amazing deals trading gear, and that's the main reason we strive to keep it alive. Sure, it's one thing to get your money back but trying to turn over absurd profits is pathetic in my opinion.

Yeah, I've seen premium-priced listings for stuff I know people have gotten dirt cheap on these forums. Sure, it's not unlawful or even breaking the rules necessarily but I guarantee you none of them are honest about what they paid for it. Yeah, there are endless opportunities out in the world that one can capitalize on and get away with, but there's no point to it other than selfish gain.

It's one of those things that's like a collective cancer. People only think about how to benefit themselves, without conscience, and without regard for the trade in general. It's like the disgusting avarice of companies that ostensibly raise prices due to hard times, but never care to relent pricing once relief has set in - then they get even greedier and start downsizing product even though they're producing at the same cost they did before the pandemic.

Yeah, sure, who cares right? Everyone is doing it anyway right? No. They exacerbate inflation and lower consumer expectations collectively and it diminishes the market at large. This is rudimentary economics logic that anyone whose taken a basic college course should be able to figure out with a little common-sense, but I'm sure there will be plenty of people who don't like to hear it; especially those who engage in greedy, dishonest practice but somehow think they should be excused from criticism because they don't see themselves for what they are - covetous.

Look, if you get a dirt cheap deal and have an opportunity to get your money back, or perhaps enjoy a marginal profit, then enjoy and reciprocate the savings to others. If you bought a regular American strat for $1000 a few
years ago and are now trying to sell it for $1500 just because new ones cost $2000 then you're just taking a gross opportunity for selfish gain. What the hell man? A reasonable person of decent conscience would be satisfied with getting the amount they paid. Yet, a person of good conscience and higher moral character would consider some degree of devaluation since we would want the same kind of standard measured to us.
 
I get what you are saying, to a certain extent. Like in getting a deal here in the forums and then listing it on the same forum for $500 more a few weeks later. But in the grand scheme of things, most people will sell stuff for what it’s worth in a fee market. Would you apply your Strat scenario to the house you live in? most people expect to and do sell their house for more than they paid even though it’s been used/lived in.
 
MistaGuitah said:
Man, I'm going to rant a little about something I think is rather dishonest and kind of petty. There are so many guys listing gear for premium prices knowing they never even paid half as much for it. Of course there are some exceptions depending on the rarity, demand, and condition, etc., but someone has to have a real crap conscience to make $1000 as the 3rd owner of something they got dirt cheap from a desperate trader. I'm not talking about anything within reason here but there's just a gross practice of this going on these days.

Yeah, I'm sure the Karens will come out swinging on this one but I've gotta say it's just petty opportunism on inflation and desperation. Personally, I wouldn't really seek to profit from something that's actually devalued just because times are tough and supply is strained. It's like taking a big dump after someone already farted and stank up the place. It just makes things a lot worse.

One of the joys of trading is giving people a great deal. That might seem dumb to many people but most people are selfish, self-centered, and greedy. I appreciate people who genuinely appreciate a good deal. I once sold a few guitars to a guy who still has them and has used them to record in albums. That puts a smile on my face knowing he really appreciated the deal enough to email me 2 years later with a pic of the guitars in his studio and convey thanks. Sometimes we have to sell gear we love and hope it will not be sold in vain - that perhaps the buyer will cherish it as much as us, give it a good home, and make some beautiful music with it. We've all gotten amazing deals trading gear, and that's the main reason we strive to keep it alive. Sure, it's one thing to get your money back but trying to turn over absurd profits is pathetic in my opinion.

Yeah, I've seen premium-priced listings for stuff I know people have gotten dirt cheap on these forums. Sure, it's not unlawful or even breaking the rules necessarily but I guarantee you none of them are honest about what they paid for it. Yeah, there are endless opportunities out in the world that one can capitalize on and get away with, but there's no point to it other than selfish gain.

It's one of those things that's like a collective cancer. People only think about how to benefit themselves, without conscience, and without regard for the trade in general. It's like the disgusting avarice of companies that ostensibly raise prices due to hard times, but never care to relent pricing once relief has set in - then they get even greedier and start downsizing product even though they're producing at the same cost they did before the pandemic.

Yeah, sure, who cares right? Everyone is doing it anyway right? No. They exacerbate inflation and lower consumer expectations collectively and it diminishes the market at large. This is rudimentary economics logic that anyone whose taken a basic college course should be able to figure out with a little common-sense, but I'm sure there will be plenty of people who don't like to hear it; especially those who engage in greedy, dishonest practice but somehow think they should be excused from criticism because they don't see themselves for what they are - covetous.

Look, if you get a dirt cheap deal and have an opportunity to get your money back, or perhaps enjoy a marginal profit, then enjoy and reciprocate the savings to others. If you bought a regular American strat for $1000 a few
years ago and are now trying to sell it for $1500 just because new ones cost $2000 then you're just taking a gross opportunity for selfish gain. What the hell man? A reasonable person of decent conscience would be satisfied with getting the amount they paid. Yet, a person of good conscience and higher moral character would consider some degree of devaluation since we would want the same kind of standard measured to us.
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The market ultimately decides prices. Regardless of how much I pay for something, I list it for just slightly under market, basically a good deal, but not worth the effort for a flipper. More often than not, I sell for a loss. If I make a profit on a single item, it's certainly not the norm. Then you have to take into consideration that if anyone is going to make a profit from an item, it should be the person with the item. I am not going to list it purposely far under market, because that only leads to flippers buying it an flipping it, further creating an artificially high market.
 
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I get the point but in my world I still think the market dictates pricing . Here's the part you didn't think about -- the circumstances that the seller sold the merchandise for. I buy and sell alot of stuff and many times people about beg me to buy stuff I don't want or need with the price dropping the whole time . Sometimes I buy the goods to help them out but I guarantee I'm going to capitalize on the other end of the sale. For some reason I don't do that here . This is a hobby for me .

Hopefully your degree is not in economics .
 
Sold my mint green Wolfgang with all case candy from 1999 for 1900, had him assure he didn’t plan on flipping it and that it’s going to a good home, and the fag sold it days later to a “friend” because he had the chance to get a guitar he really wanted. I knew then he planned it all along. Ever since then I’m listing it at full asking and I don’t give a flying fuck if it sits for sale for 6 months- I learned my lesson.

I’ve been made fun of for the prices I list at but for rare gear you can either buy it or don’t buy it, it’s that simple.
 
Buying something on the cheap just to sell it a few weeks later with a profit is a dickhead move. Someone else could have gotten it for a good price who actually would have cherished it more.

Apart form that, I go with the market. If you bought a guitar 5 years ago for 1000.- with the galloping inflation you should charge 1200.- to get the same "purchasing power" out of it. Just look how the prices of groceries increased over this time period.
On the other hand, going with the market means gear can also loose it`s value. Let`s say you have an amp everybody was bragging about a few years ago and now nobody talks about it anymore. You have to adjust your price.
Usually when selling something, I have a look at what the gear is priced for and what it sold for example on Ebay. That way I have a good idea of what`s it worth. I never price something that it sits there 3 months without getting sold.
 
I ❤️ Capitalism.

Unless I'm donating to charity, I want my asking price or reasonable offer. (I made a donation to charity last year, and still waiting for the tax forms to file my taxes because of the donation; if you're gonna donate something of real value to charity, I recommend doing it early in the year, because you will have issues getting your tax forms)

I factor in my selling costs too, e.g., Reverb.

I canceled my PayPal with all their potential for drama, don't use venmo, etc. so I have fewer options to sell.

I list on CL for less, but I'm not going drive far to meet the potential buyer. I've had a few where we agreed on a price show up then offer less or tell me they only have a lower amount, so no sale. Now if they point out a real issue with the item that I did not notice, that's different. I try to be accurate in my descriptions, and provide photos of any visible issues.
 
Bottom line...If I'm buying or selling It's my job to do the research, understand the market, know the true value and then negotiate from an educated perspective. If I choose to give somebody a below market deal because I know them, or because it just makes me feel good...I get to choose to do that too. Total freedom and complete personal responsibility for my choices are both fine by me.
 
glpg80 said:
Sold my mint green Wolfgang with all case candy from 1999 for 1900, had him assure he didn’t plan on flipping it and that it’s going to a good home, and the fag sold it days later to a “friend” because he had the chance to get a guitar he really wanted. I knew then he planned it all along. Ever since then I’m listing it at full asking and I don’t give a flying fuck if it sits for sale for 6 months- I learned my lesson.

I’ve been made fun of for the prices I list at but for rare gear you can either buy it or don’t buy it, it’s that simple.
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That must have been my ex - friend I sold my 1992 Black Les Paul custom to 25 years ago . Gigging musician , couldn't live without it. Gone 1 week later so he could buy a Hamer . A Hamer of all things !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lesson learned !

I do buy and sell gear and do lose money but I view it as I buy it to try it. I don't like it I sell it
 
I'm not one of those people, because I've never owned any gear that has suddenly gone way up in price. However, the way I look at it is that no one is forcing anyone to buy anything. I would love to own a silver burst LPC, but I'm not rich enough or dumb enough to pay the current prices.
 
MistaGuitah said:
Man, I'm going to rant a little about something I think is rather dishonest and kind of petty. There are so many guys listing gear for premium prices knowing they never even paid half as much for it. Of course there are some exceptions depending on the rarity, demand, and condition, etc., but someone has to have a real crap conscience to make $1000 as the 3rd owner of something they got dirt cheap from a desperate trader. I'm not talking about anything within reason here but there's just a gross practice of this going on these days.

Yeah, I'm sure the Karens will come out swinging on this one but I've gotta say it's just petty opportunism on inflation and desperation. Personally, I wouldn't really seek to profit from something that's actually devalued just because times are tough and supply is strained. It's like taking a big dump after someone already farted and stank up the place. It just makes things a lot worse.

One of the joys of trading is giving people a great deal. That might seem dumb to many people but most people are selfish, self-centered, and greedy. I appreciate people who genuinely appreciate a good deal. I once sold a few guitars to a guy who still has them and has used them to record in albums. That puts a smile on my face knowing he really appreciated the deal enough to email me 2 years later with a pic of the guitars in his studio and convey thanks. Sometimes we have to sell gear we love and hope it will not be sold in vain - that perhaps the buyer will cherish it as much as us, give it a good home, and make some beautiful music with it. We've all gotten amazing deals trading gear, and that's the main reason we strive to keep it alive. Sure, it's one thing to get your money back but trying to turn over absurd profits is pathetic in my opinion.

Yeah, I've seen premium-priced listings for stuff I know people have gotten dirt cheap on these forums. Sure, it's not unlawful or even breaking the rules necessarily but I guarantee you none of them are honest about what they paid for it. Yeah, there are endless opportunities out in the world that one can capitalize on and get away with, but there's no point to it other than selfish gain.

It's one of those things that's like a collective cancer. People only think about how to benefit themselves, without conscience, and without regard for the trade in general. It's like the disgusting avarice of companies that ostensibly raise prices due to hard times, but never care to relent pricing once relief has set in - then they get even greedier and start downsizing product even though they're producing at the same cost they did before the pandemic.

Yeah, sure, who cares right? Everyone is doing it anyway right? No. They exacerbate inflation and lower consumer expectations collectively and it diminishes the market at large. This is rudimentary economics logic that anyone whose taken a basic college course should be able to figure out with a little common-sense, but I'm sure there will be plenty of people who don't like to hear it; especially those who engage in greedy, dishonest practice but somehow think they should be excused from criticism because they don't see themselves for what they are - covetous.

Look, if you get a dirt cheap deal and have an opportunity to get your money back, or perhaps enjoy a marginal profit, then enjoy and reciprocate the savings to others. If you bought a regular American strat for $1000 a few
years ago and are now trying to sell it for $1500 just because new ones cost $2000 then you're just taking a gross opportunity for selfish gain. What the hell man? A reasonable person of decent conscience would be satisfied with getting the amount they paid. Yet, a person of good conscience and higher moral character would consider some degree of devaluation since we would want the same kind of standard measured to us.
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Great post. Now what are you willing to sell me at well below market value?
 
creep66 said:
Great post. Now what are you willing to sell me at well below market value?
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I don't speak in hypocrisy so...

Panhead5 said:
I get the point but in my world I still think the market dictates pricing . Here's the part you didn't think about -- the circumstances that the seller sold the merchandise for. I buy and sell alot of stuff and many times people about beg me to buy stuff I don't want or need with the price dropping the whole time . Sometimes I buy the goods to help them out but I guarantee I'm going to capitalize on the other end of the sale. For some reason I don't do that here . This is a hobby for me .

Hopefully your degree is not in economics .
Click to expand...
I have 4 university degrees. What degree do you have?
 
I sell/trade differently on here than I would on Reverb or other open markets. On here I care more about the long term reputation of being a person good to deal with and being trusted more than I do any single deal. But when I do sell I check out current prices and sell at the low side to get a quick sell.

On a side note, even just 5 years ago, we’ve had a 20% increase in inflation. So that guitar that cost $1500 in 2018 would be $1800 today everything being that same.
And 10 years ago in 2013, it’s a 30% increase, so that same $1500 guitar would be $1950 today.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

So add that to an opportunity and whatever “buzz” there may be at any given time and people do what they do.
 
MistaGuitah said:
I don't speak in hypocrisy so...


I have 4 university degrees. What degree do you have?
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You are also taking yourself a little too seriously. Your responses are pretty intense for the replies you quoted.

Forums used to be what u describe in ur post a decade ago - a place for like minded players to give each other a deal without the hassle of ebay or GC.

Now due to the reverb site effect, the increased number of members and the misconception that “everything” is a long term collectable by many members … well its a recipe for exactly what you (and i) are against.

These guys seek to profit off what is, for many products, becoming a pyramid-like scheme amongst the population willing to pay a premium. Then, like gambling, that buyer tries to sell for more, the next buyer for more, and so on.

Its too bad bc i too love when i see a good deal here and its a reminder of the good times.
I see a lot of shilling everywhere. I simply just move on.
 
tonedover said:
You are also taking yourself a little too seriously. Your responses are pretty intense for the replies you quoted.

Forums used to be what u describe in ur post a decade ago - a place for like minded players to give each other a deal without the hassle of ebay or GC.

Now due to the number of members and the misconception that “everything” is a long term collectable by many members and they seek to profit off what is, for many products, becoming a pyramid-like scheme amongst the population willing to pay a premium. Then, like gambling, that buyer tries to sell for more, the next buyer, and so on.

Its too bad bc i too love when i see a good deal here and its a reminder of the good times.
Click to expand...
When I said I don't speak in hypocrisy, I said it because I'm not the type of person who preaches one thing but practices another. Remember, I wasn't talking about reasonable trading but the constant hustle to glean excessive profits from trading. It's different from companies conducting business because trade is a guarded community of individuals who not only look for good deals but provide them for the sake of sustaining good trade.

Let me put it this way: There was a member selling a nice, new $3000 guitar for about $1600 on the forum. We've all had to take losses in order to make a quick sale or raise some needed cash so it's not something desirable but sort of unavoidable at times. That was a really great guitar that easily holds it's value around $2200, so $1600 was a fantastic deal. Next thing you know, someone buys it and and later lists it for $2200. There are rules that keep businesses from engaging in trade because it defeats the purpose of a trading community, so when members exploit that just to turn a profit, they're essentially engaging in a business practice. This contributes negatively and does have a collective effect. You could try to argue that but when you start seeing gear selling for more on a forum that eBay or Reverb then you can't deny it's effect.

Do you think it's fair to any of us who have tolerated losses for the sake of trade or just provided a great deal to other members? I don't think you would. It used to be that this would happen every now and then but now it's like a regular practice. Like I said, if I bought a new amp 10 years ago that retailed at $1200 then started asking $2000 for it 10 years later after a pandemic hit then it's just selfish gain. I explain this to bring awareness to basic concepts like collective gain and collective deterioration. Indeed, forums facilitate a rather carefully guarded trading community measured by feedback. Therefore, whoever acts only for personal benefit is operating not as a community member but as a selfish opportunist.

It's like when you list something on Reverb or eBay and there's always that one guy who comes along and lists the same thing dirt cheap so no one even bothers looking at other listings. That happens a couple of times and next thing you know a guy walks into Guitar Center for a trade-in and gets a diminished value based on previous listings, so he gets less than he should because someone undercut everyone else. Of course, we don't know the seller's situation so it's just one of those things that happens sometimes.

However, what should be understood here is that there's a broader cause & effect to the things people do. It's common-sense stuff, as I'd explained, but people are less and less inclined to contemplate things these days so it's like trying to explain physics to a dishwasher. Think of it like a restaurant: someone goes in, eats, licks their fingers, picks their nose, doesn't wash their hands after using the bathroom, then handles a salt shaker, ketchup bottle, or buffet spoon. Next thing you know, someone gets sick because that nasty person had no conscience whatsoever about spreading germs. It's simple cause & effect, common-sense, and common decency that may not be possible in broader society but more consequential among a community.
 
I dont disagree, but what you and i dislike is synonymous with the cultural shift that has been prevalent in “western” culture since the advent of dedicated social media, of the past 15 years.
Narcissism is rampant; socio-economics continue to divide; the middle class is sliding towards poverty; and the population has become obsessed w consumerism; as well as with possessions apparently defining ones worth as a person in a digital construct.

This combined with a looming recession is a recipe for the over-extended bag holders on all these “collections” to have a REAL hard time coming up.
 
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