The Verdict: Suhr v. Warmoth Strats

[SavageRiffer]

A few years ago, I owned many Fenders, Jacksons, Musicmans, Gibsons, Ibanezs, etc., and experimented with my first Warmoth build. It all started because I noticed that some of the frets were wearing down on a few of my guitars. I wanted to go stainless, and after much research, I came to the conclusion that I should build my own guitars and put stainless steel frets on them (I also use EVO gold frets which are nearly as durable, but sound like nickel frets). Within a couple of years, all but one of my guitars were my own builds.

Fast-forward to recent months... I'm just an amateur whose developed just enough proficiency to do the job right. I'm not a pro and don't have any training, so I had been contemplating whether I should buy a real pro level guitar and see if maybe it's time to move on because it's a lot of work to build guitars and get them right. Therefore, I finally came across a Suhr strat that I fell in love with.

It arrived the day before yesterday and I've already put in several hours carefully swapping back and forth between my own guitars. I'd look for things like playability, tuning, fret buzz, action, etc. I want a real honest comparison because if my own guitars aren't up to par, then I'm going to let them go and let the pros provide them.

Well, here's what I've concluded at this point: My Warmoth guitars are definitely worthy. I give most of the credit to Warmoth, some credit to Stewmac for their articles and videos, and of course youtube contributors. I take very little credit for myself because I'm just an amateur dabbler. Anyway, I'll fill you in on the important details though.

The Suhr has really, really nicely done fretwork. The nut is perfectly filed. The Gotoh tremolo (one which I frequently use in my guitars) is smooth and has a very nice range of dip and lift. The finish is top notch. The neck is a bit wider than most of my Warmoth necks I think. I really like the neck radius which is 9-12, but feels very flat compared to most of my Warmoth necks which usually have more of a traditional strat radius (I think I'm going to start using a flatter neck radius from now on). It's very lightweight overall. The string tension is a bit tighter, but I don't know what the scale length is. I use Fender standard scale length on most of my necks which have a slightly slinkier string tension.

I cannot find a fault with this guitar. My fretwork is decent, but not nearly as polished and perfectly rounded. Under a magnifying glass, my fret crowns are squarer and with a bit roughter surface. You can faintly see here and there where the 1000 grit sandpaper and steel wool didn't entirely erase the marks left from fret leveling. I'd love to know how Suhr levels, crowns, and dresses their frets because they're round, shiny, and look like they were manufactured that way.

Having said that, though some polished, professional details can be seen on very close inspection, I have to say that my Warmoth builds are still rather well done. There is a tiny bit of fret buzz on the lower strings that I can't seem to get rid of without leveling the 19th-22nd frets, but it doesn't affect the sustain or even the tone very much. Most of my Warmoths are similar, a couple have more fret buzz, but those haven't been sanded down yet.

I don't have a professional nut file set, so until I can buy one, I've done minimal filing of my nuts. They stick a little here and there, but my trems do a great job. I've also noticed over the years, by the way, that the Goto 510 and Fender American Standard tremolos seem to stay in tune just a tiny bit better than the Wilkinson VS100. I don't know if it's the coating/finish of the Wilkinsons, but I suspect it is. A little 3-in-1 oil has cured it. The Wilkinson saddles are better than the Fender bent saddles because they allow a bit more precision and the tiny hex screws of the Fender bent saddles can sometimes start to unscrew from your palm rubbing against the saddles. Some Gotoh 510 trems have the bent saddles but don't have that issue.

Overall, I'm totally in love with the Suhr. However, as much as I HATE, HATE, HATE to let it go, I think that the Warmoth builds have been very good to me so I may sell my Suhr and do another build. I'm afraid that if I keep the Suhr a few more days that I'll want to keep it and won't get around to another build.

Detailed pics coming tonight.

 

[EvilBatman]

Last time I looked, I believe Suhr was using a PLEK machine.

 

[Badronald]

I play guitar.

 

[oldmtlhed]

I play guitar.

Nice.

I mostly make annoying sounds with mine.

 

[Panzer917-30]

It seems that the only thing missing in your own builds is a bit of an experienced hand in the setups. Perhaps you should send one if your builds to a good luthier and see how much or little that 10/10th of perfection really makes against your own work.

It sounds like your fret work is just getting a little rushed in the middle stages of sanding.....400 to 800grit...then 1200 and micromesh.

Its good to know that your own work stands well next to such esteemed guitars as Suhr..etc

 

[SpiderWars]

I've only done 2 builds and both times I took it to a luthier after I had done all I could. I know my limitations. That perfectly cut Suhr nut is a good example of where you just cant replace experience. I'm willing to pay for that.

 

[SavageRiffer]

It seems that the only thing missing in your own builds is a bit of an experienced hand in the setups. Perhaps you should send one if your builds to a good luthier and see how much or little that 10/10th of perfection really makes against your own work.

It sounds like your fret work is just getting a little rushed in the middle stages of sanding.....400 to 800grit...then 1200 and micromesh.

Its good to know that your own work stands well next to such esteemed guitars as Suhr..etc

I tried to emphasize that "my work" wasn't the credit for coming close to Suhr's quality. All I had to do was essentially tape the fretboard, mark the frets with a Sharpie, file them down (usually somewhere between 12th-22nd frets), and use my little crown block to recrown the ones that were too flat so the peak is consistent. You are right, I pretty much went 600 to 800 to 1000 then used steel wool to polish.

All I'm saying is that my guitars really aren't as bad as I thought they might be compared to something with the quality of Suhr. They keep in tune, have a good low action with minimal fret buzz, and really the only problem is getting a set of nut files so I can file them properly. I was thinking about selling my guitars as parts if they sucked in comparison, but since they're pretty good, I'm not THAT much at an advantage having a Suhr in my collection. However, indeed the quality is all there as I detailed. There is no mistaking that Suhr is immaculate quality - quality I'll probably never be able to reach on my own.

As for taking my guitar to a professional luthier/tech, I've done that twice in the past. All they did was use a business card to adjust the neck tilt, make some adjustments to the bridge and truss rod, but when I got them back, they had medium-high actions and fret buzz. These guys were official repair shops for major brands like Fender. After those experiences, I came to the conclusion that MOSTLY only manufacturers really know what they're doing 100%. The rest of these so-called "professionals" learn tidbits like everyone else does and have no formal training or apprenticeships.

Furthermore, they were real dicks about explaining anything that would help me understand how to do it myself. I've even offered to pay a few techs $100 to spend an hour showing me how to do a proper setup, but they all acted like they didn't have time. They're almost all just a bunch of assholes that don't want to share their knowledge as if you can't find examples of what they do on Youtube.

In the end, I had to learn how to do it all myself because the techs pretty much suck as techs and as people. Besides, the whole purpose of this thread (and I tried to make this obvious) was not that MY builds were worthy of Suhr quality (because they're not), but for those people who wonder whether a decent home build can be of high quality.

Warmoth necks and bodies are extremely good quality. Their work is nearly perfect, but lack lots of precision refinements and basic fret leveling. Most of the time, their stuff requires some adjustment and setup, and only every now and then can you buy a neck and body that are just right. I make my own wood shims out of maple or poplar instead of business cards. Little details like that go a long way. It's good to know that my guitars don't suck, and that's good enough for me to stick with them.

If someone knows a REAL professional in the Houston are who is actually helpful, I'd like to know. At this point, I gave up on seeking techs because all I've gotten for my money so far is worth shit. One bastard wanted to charge me $160 for a basic setup because he "shimmed" the neck with a business card. Luckily, I had brought one of my own setups in to compare their work and showed him what a proper shim looks like. After some arguing back and forth, and complaining that everyone else only charges $35-40 for setups, he still charged me $45. Come on man, you ask questions like I'm not smart enough to have thought of all these things before.

By the way, I've discovered an advantage to not having perfectly polished fret surfaces. You want a tiny feel of abrasion with stainless steel frets if you don't like how slick they are when perfectly polished. It feels more like nickel frets that way.

Last time I looked, I believe Suhr was using a PLEK machine.

Yeah, but PLEK machines only level the frets. They do some work to perfectly shape and polish them. Whatever it is they do is fantastic.

I've only done 2 builds and both times I took it to a luthier after I had done all I could. I know my limitations. That perfectly cut Suhr nut is a good example of where you just cant replace experience. I'm willing to pay for that.

I've been down that path. Please direct me to a good tech.

 

[Racerxrated]

All I can do is a good setup. I've learned over the years that I must like similar setups as other respected guys here on RT, as I've bought a few Charvel Customs here and they've come perfectly setup just like I would set them.
Then, when I buy used at GC I don't give up on it until I set it right. Shim the neck if I have to. I picked up an 05 Charvel pointy RI that was listed as a model 2, for 399. Horribly setup, after re setting it and shimming the neck with 2 thin picks it's a monster player.

 

[SavageRiffer]

All I can do is a good setup. I've learned over the years that I must like similar setups as other respected guys here on RT, as I've bought a few Charvel Customs here and they've come perfectly setup just like I would set them.
Then, when I buy used at GC I don't give up on it until I set it right. Shim the neck if I have to. I picked up an 05 Charvel pointy RI that was listed as a model 2, for 399. Horribly setup, after re setting it and shimming the neck with 2 thin picks it's a monster player.

It's a luxury to buy a guitar and only have to do a setup. Unfortunately, many high-dollar brands I've bought just don't come with a good setup and free of fret buzz. I have come to accept that some degree of fret buzz is inevitable for a low action. I have had PLEK'd guitars, like Gibsons which were not leveled. The only way to fix them, especially set neck/neck through guitars was to file a couple of the frets. A fret rocker is indispensable. Even this Suhr I have has some fret buzz in the lower frets. I've checked the neck angle, measured string height, the bridge, etc. It has kind of a medium action as it stands, but to get any lower, it's going to need some fret work. That SHOULDN'T be the case for such expensive guitars, but I guess it's jus something you can't avoid. Having said that, after some adjustment, it plays exceptionally well. The intonation is great.

 

[kurtsstuff2003]

I do all my own set ups and electronics but, trying to do any type of fret work scares the hell outta me!!

 

[cecilbag]

This just makes me want to try some warmoth stuff even more. I realize it varies but many builds being that good is speaking to the quality.

 

[glip22]

Fret work is a pain in the ass. I usually wind up nice and level after crowning but I always have a few that need a little attention after sanding with the first courser grains to remove the file marks. It's crucial to round the crown from the ends to the top of the crown. This will give you your rounded smooth look. I make sure I get all the file marks out. I go up to 600, and then finish off with with a set of polishing papers. It's allot of work and time consuming.Hard on the fingers also. I have had new expensive guitars that had a high fret or two. I can usually fix those and no one would ever know, even on stainless.
Never ever use the marker trick you see online. I learned long ago it only takes a very small amount of sanding to throw a fret off of level. I mean a very small amount. This was the key for my understanding how to do a perfect level with barely taking any meat off the frets. Of course it all depends on how bad of shape they are in, such as divots, scratches, etc.. Every guitar is different to some degree. Using a marker and sanding down until no marker is left takes a huge amount off more than one would usually need. Yeah, its easier but.....

 

[bigangryguitar]

I put together a usacg tele a few years back. Their fretwork was every bit as good as anything I have played.