Thomann Sues Fender on Behalf of "Everyone"

[Alpha Stryke]

Metal up their ass -

 

[Massarea Whippins]

we demand justice !

 

[Rackman]

Wait, the full design? you sure?

Even if the tuners being on the bridge is that old, I'd be surprised if the ergonomic body + headless neck design is.

They were headless. Ergonomic? Probably about as ergonomic as the typical lap steel.

 

[Fiesta Red]

IDK; if you created a new product and dozens of others copied your product making money on it and paid you nothing for it; and the courts said "too bad, deal with it"...you might see it differently?

I wouldn't be stupid enough not to get a patent or a trademark for it first.

 

[Fiesta Red]

Everyone?

 

[Fiesta Red]

It's like a bad soap opera.

It's like being a member of Journey

 

[harddriver]

Fender lost this legal battle in the USA and they probably will lose it when and if if goes to court in the EU.

 

[Floyd Eye]

IDK; if you created a new product and dozens of others copied your product making money on it and paid you nothing for it; and the courts said "too bad, deal with it"...you might see it differently?

The fact that others got away with copying Fender's original design for decades, for free, doesn't change the fact that Tele, Strat, offset body shapes (and more), are Fender's original designs.

Seeing so many ignore or dismiss the fact these body shapes are Fender's original creations, and excusing those who used / copied the designs to make money is surprising to me. Then again look at what's happening in society today, and the past 2-3 decades....it's not that surprising

Fender knew how trademark law worked when they spent decades ignoring people building and selling copies.

 

[Rackman]

Fender lost this legal battle in the USA and they probably will lose it when and if if goes to court in the EU.

Very likely. Their theory is that there's an artistic copyright (which they never applied for) on the body shape. While German copyright law is not exactly something I follow, I'm doubtful that just because you have a thing with a certain shape, you own that shape forever. The Germans may be anoying, and sometimes stupid, but probably not THAT stupid.

 

[HellraiserJohnny]

It seems Fender has no patent, copyright or Trademark on S-Style guitars in the US. All it's protective law is strictly in the EU.

Here is more info if you want to know more:
European Union: The Landmark "Applied Art" Protection [1]
In Europe, the legal framework is completely different. European law recognizes a concept called "Works of Applied Art," which allows everyday commercial objects to receive full copyright protection if they exhibit "original creative expression" rather than purely functional design. [1, 2, 3]

• The Düsseldorf Court Victory: Fender secured a landmark copyright ruling at the Regional Court of Düsseldorf, Germany. The court legally declared the 1954 Stratocaster body design to be an artistic masterpiece protected by German and EU copyright law. [1, 2]
• The Court's Reasoning: The German judges noted that the Stratocaster’s soft contours evoke a human torso, the sides are deliberately asymmetrical, and the elongated upper horn gives a sense of dynamic movement. Because it reflected the "personality" of Leo Fender, it qualified as art. [, 2, 3]
• Duration: Because German and EU copyright lasts for 70 years after the creator’s death (and Leo Fender passed away in 1991), this copyright legally protects the Stratocaster body shape in the EU until at least 2061. [, 2]

---

3. How Fender Enforces Its European Copyright Today
Following the German ruling, Fender's international law firm, Bird & Bird, launched an aggressive enforcement campaign across Europe, fundamentally shaking the guitar industry: [1, 2]

• Cease-and-Desist Blitz: Fender began issuing heavy-handed letters to third-party guitar builders and major European retailers. The letters demand that companies immediately stop marketing or selling any "S-Style" double-cutaway guitars in the EU, recall or destroy existing stock, and pay severe penalty fines (up to €250,000 per infringement). [, 2]
• The Catch (Default Judgment The original ruling was actually a default judgment against a Chinese counterfeit company selling cheap copies on AliExpress that failed to show up to defend themselves. Because it was uncontested, Fender’s copyright has not yet been rigorously tested against a major competitor in a live courtroom trial. [, 2, 3]
• The Industry Backlash: The guitar community has pushed back fiercely. Major European retail giants, like Thomann, have filed lawsuits against Fender to challenge the cease-and-desist campaign. Thomann and other builders are trying to prove in court that the Strat shape is purely functional (providing upper-fret access and body balance) and that Fender shouldn't be allowed to monopolize a 70-year-old ubiquitous design.

 

[Geo]

Rhett Shull had a GREAT video about it. Oh wait.....

This insufferable douche makes me a Fender fan.

 

[Classic]

I know it's a long shot, but I'm with Fender on this. No matter the outcome, the fact remains Tele, Strat, Offset, and other body designs are Fender's original creations that others have copied / derived to varying degrees for decades.


The fact that Fender has been unable to protect its original designs for decades is a failure of the legal system in the US...then again, that same legal system once upheld humans owning other humans.

Facts > feelings

Talk to me about car and engine designs? How is it that every manufacturer can produce fundamentally the same visual and engine designs? Surely that’s not fair?

What about watches? How come they’re all very similar?
What about tube screamers?

There cannot be one rule for one and not for another. If one has to be protected, so do they all.

 

[BABMusic]

I just don't like this idea of being able to own a shape of something. Logo? Yes. But shape? That's sort of like saying I can copyright a mug for my tea. Most other musical instruments do not have this issue of being able to control a shape. The other argument though is that the Strat shape has been the most popular (aside from the LP). Still, maybe they should work out a legal requirement where Strat copies would send 1% of the profit for each guitar to Fender? I don't know. I'll still continue to buy Strat copies.

 

[VonBonfire]

Thomann can pretend it's doing all the small makers a righteous courtroom favor but it's really all about being able to market it's cheap shit Harley Benton line, which is a line that cuts into many makers bottom line. Follow the money.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

IDK; if you created a new product and dozens of others copied your product making money on it and paid you nothing for it; and the courts said "too bad, deal with it"...you might see it differently?

The fact that others got away with copying Fender's original design for decades, for free, doesn't change the fact that Tele, Strat, offset body shapes (and more), are Fender's original designs.

Seeing so many ignore or dismiss the fact these body shapes are Fender's original creations, and excusing those who used / copied the designs to make money is surprising to me. Then again look at what's happening in society today, and the past 2-3 decades....it's not that surprising

I'm partially with you on this. At least in the general aspect that the body shape was an original Fender design and they have a right to protect that design.

My point of contention would be what constitutes a copy; where do you draw that line between copy and inspiration? Is a Strat copy one that duplicates every aspect down to individual dimension and minor details? Or is a Strat copy a guitar that uses the general body shape where something like the picture below would be considered a Strat copy?

 

[Geo]

Play Gibson.

 

[BABMusic]

Play Gibson.

In 2027, new Gibsons will stop working if you plug them into something other than a Mesa amp.

 

[VonBonfire]

In 2027, new Gibsons will stop working if you plug them into something other than a Mesa amp.

Digital modeling gear will enable this to become a reality. Play authentic-or else.

 

[japetus]

Play Gibson.

 

[BABMusic]

Digital modeling gear will enable this to become a reality. Play authentic-or else.

I fear you are correct, and it could also affect you even if you do play authentic. There's already cars that can self drive back to the dealership if you default on the loan. Soon, guitars will have some AI inside that will detect if you had a few beers and then the guitar will shut off. The Gibson AI will check your facebook posts and then shut off when it discovers that you made fun of Juneteenth.