Thomann Sues Fender on Behalf of "Everyone"

[VonBonfire]

I fear you are correct, and it could also affect you even if you do play authentic.

Mark my words, less than ten years away. Probably five or less before you start start seeing it from the big digital modeler makers. They want everything to become a rental service so you own nothing and aren't happy. I could even see the tech being built into tube amplifiers as well. All it takes is something that has a wi-fi connection. Correct me if I'm wrong but:

"Your MESA rate plan didn't renew on time, please visit MESA-pay to activate your plan"

 

[japetus]

Mark my words, less than ten years away. Probably five or less before you start start seeing it from the big digital modeler makers. They want everything to become a rental service so you own nothing and aren't happy. I could even see the tech being built into tube amplifiers as well. All it takes is something that has a wi-fi connection. Correct me if I'm wrong but:

"Your MESA rate plan didn't renew on time, please visit MESA-pay to activate your plan"

I could be wrong, but didn't some pedal company come out a few years back where you had to buy "subscriptions" in some way, and if they ran out, you lost access to those fx?

 

[VonBonfire]

I could be wrong, but didn't some pedal company come out a few years back where you had to buy "subscriptions" in some way, and if they ran out, you lost access to those fx?

Universal Audio

"Dual Ownership Friction: Universal Audio made the choice not to automatically grant physical pedal owners the perpetual computer software/plugin versions of their pedal. This led to notable frustration among physical hardware buyers, as you have to choose between buying the plugin separately (a one-time license) or subscribing to the UADx service"'

 

[japetus]

Universal Audio

"Dual Ownership Friction: Universal Audio made the choice not to automatically grant physical pedal owners the perpetual computer software/plugin versions of their pedal. This led to notable frustration among physical hardware buyers, as you have to choose between buying the plugin separately (a one-time license) or subscribing to the UADx service"'

Makes me want to puke.

 

[Rackman]

Universal Audio

"Dual Ownership Friction: Universal Audio made the choice not to automatically grant physical pedal owners the perpetual computer software/plugin versions of their pedal. This led to notable frustration among physical hardware buyers, as you have to choose between buying the plugin separately (a one-time license) or subscribing to the UADx service"'

UA has always been absolute shit to their plugin customers. Their entire business model is to make you buy what you already bought again if you want to be able to pull up your mixes after a hardware/OS/DAW update.

I believe the correct policy in general is to never buy plugins. Stock plugins or physical outboard only.

 

[Geo]

In 2027, new Gibsons will stop working if you plug them into something other than a Mesa amp.

I think you are onto something there

 

[japetus]

I think you are onto something there

Imagine being at a gig. It's time to rock, you have your hot rodded strat and Mesa ready to rip....and this comes through your amp speakers in Mark Agnesis voice.

Hello, and welcome to the Gibson/Mesa Tonecheck. We have noticed you aren't "playing authentic"! It's an easy mistake to make, but we wanna "keep you rocking!" Please, make sure your authenticated Gibson is plugged in, with the power on to your Mesa amp. If needed, reboot all of your "Play Authentic" certified devices, or call 1-800-AUTHENTIC to speak to a certified Play Authentic Customer Service Engineer. Goodbye!

 

[BABMusic]

I think you are onto something there

As VonBonfire said, "You will own no amp and be unhappy."

 

[rsm]

I'm partially with you on this. At least in the general aspect that the body shape was an original Fender design and they have a right to protect that design.

My point of contention would be what constitutes a copy; where do you draw that line between copy and inspiration? Is a Strat copy one that duplicates every aspect down to individual dimension and minor details? Or is a Strat copy a guitar that uses the general body shape where something like the picture below would be considered a Strat copy?

View attachment 451021

some are obviously a stretch; some are damn close. for example...


K-Line S-Type? on ebay now

Schroeder S-Type Fiesta Red - on CME now

another K-Line; Springfield model; on Reverb.

not a Fender, not a Squier or Fender product; on sale new at SW:

not a Fender, on sale new at SW

Harley Benton, on sale new at Thomann

I'm sure there are more...

 

[rsm]

I would rather let the free market decide.

Also here's a question I genuinely want to hear your answer for. What if the first company to make an electric guitar fretboard decided that "the fretboard" was theirs and nobody else was allowed to make one? Would you support them keeping their own design which would mean not letting anyone else make guitars, ever?

fretboard is a stretch from a body shape, contour, etc.

fretboards predated guitars...lutes? violins, etc., probably even older stringed instruments had fretboards, with and without frets.

 

[rsm]

I wouldn't be stupid enough not to get a patent or a trademark for it first.

and if your patent was denied, tough luck?

 

[DrewJD82]

Fender knew how trademark law worked when they spent decades ignoring people building and selling copies.

Not only that, but when he found out about all the copies being made in Japan he celebrated the fact his designs were putting food on the table for people on the other side of the planet, it mentions it in the book about him.

More to the point, he patented the Broadcaster body shape a few years before designing the Strat. There’s speculation he attempted to patent the Strat but it may not have been accepted due to its functional standpoint, rather than its design standpoint. He patented the Strat’s trem system, so it’s not like he wasn’t intentional about what he was doing.

 

[rsm]

Talk to me about car and engine designs? How is it that every manufacturer can produce fundamentally the same visual and engine designs? Surely that’s not fair?

What about watches? How come they’re all very similar?
What about tube screamers?

There cannot be one rule for one and not for another. If one has to be protected, so do they all.

if someone made a close copy of a Ford Mustang GT, avoiding trademarks and patents, calling it something else...I'm sure Ford wouldn't mind. Right? /S

Ford protects the Mustang from unauthorized replication primarily by enforcing design patents and strict trademarks on its recognizable visual assets, logos, and the "Mustang" name. This legal framework actively defends the brand against rival automakers, custom body-kit builders, and unlicensed merchandise manufacturers.

engines had patents, they expired. watches have been patented throughout history. Fender was denied patent IIRC, maybe the waited too long? Still doesn't change the fact that the Strat design is Fender's original creation.

Lots of pedals have been copied, e.g., Klon and Timmy, and Tube Screamers - doesn't make it right - those copies stole the original designs unless they made changes to the circuit...remember Vertex and BBE Ben Wah pedals?

it's your money, buy what you want even if it's design is stolen...don't complain about thieves if you're ever robbed since you support theft when it works for you.

 

[japetus]

if someone made a close copy of a Ford Mustang GT, avoiding trademarks and patents, calling it something else...I'm sure Ford wouldn't mind. Right? /S

Ford protects the Mustang from unauthorized replication primarily by enforcing design patents and strict trademarks on its recognizable visual assets, logos, and the "Mustang" name. This legal framework actively defends the brand against rival automakers, custom body-kit builders, and unlicensed merchandise manufacturers.

engines had patents, they expired. watches have been patented throughout history. Fender was denied patent IIRC, maybe the waited too long? Still doesn't change the fact that the Strat design is Fender's original creation.

Lots of pedals have been copied, e.g., Klon and Timmy, and Tube Screamers - doesn't make it right - those copies stole the original designs unless they made changes to the circuit...remember Vertex and BBE Ben Wah pedals?

it's your money, buy what you want even if it's design is stolen...don't complain about thieves if you're ever robbed since you support theft when it works for you.

Someone needs to rip off the DOD Gonkulator. Imagine the $$$!

 

[rsm]

Someone needs to rip off the DOD Gonkulator. Imagine the $$$!

Or the Korg Miku Stomp

(I actually owned one, purchased new from Japan; sold it for a great price)

 

[japetus]

Or the Korg Miku Stomp




View attachment 451049




(I actually owned one, purchased new from Japan; sold it for a great price)

So kawaii desu

 

[DrewJD82]

it's your money, buy what you want even if it's design is stolen...don't complain about thieves if you're ever robbed since you support theft when it works for you.

This is entirely predicated on the assumption Leo was denied the patent when no one actually knows if he filed for it or not.

If Leo Fender himself had a public history of being pissed off over the lack of patent, I’d be right along with ya, but everything I’ve seen has shown he simply didn’t give a fuck about that aspect of things and designing stuff people liked to use was the thing that seemed to fire him up.

My partscasters are made with licensed parts because I wanted everything to fit together right when I assembled it, but personally I don’t get any sense of emotion/loyalty/completeness from knowing Fender got a couple bucks when I bought them. Fender doesn’t give a shit what condition those bodies/necks were when I got them, just that they get their money.

 

[rsm]

This is entirely predicated on the assumption Leo was denied the patent when no one actually knows if he filed for it or not.

If Leo Fender himself had a public history of being pissed off over the lack of patent, I’d be right along with ya, but everything I’ve seen has shown he simply didn’t give a fuck about that aspect of things and designing stuff people liked to use was the thing that seemed to fire him up.

My partscasters are made with licensed parts because I wanted everything to fit together right when I assembled it, but personally I don’t get any sense of emotion/loyalty/completeness from knowing Fender got a couple bucks when I bought them. Fender doesn’t give a shit what condition those bodies/necks were when I got them, just that they get their money.

Leo did patent the Stratocaster design, but he never pursued a design patent on its body shape.

Maybe Leo wouldn't have sold Fender to CBS if he was able to license his body designs; or maybe he could have asked for more money from CBS if he owned his original designs?

The fact remains Fender Tele, Strat, Offset, and other body designs were created by Fender, and copied / derived by many others.

I don't think Fender will win; being right doesn't mean you win or get actual justice. Right vs wrong is up to the courts - the epitome of modern wisdom, reason, fairness, truth and facts. /S