Tips for Dark Heavy recorded sound with VH4

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JoshXR

JoshXR

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Hey all,

I am no stranger to recording, and have several years and hundreds of hours of experience.

But I want to get a few opinions on recording heavy metal guitar sounds with the VH4. Most of my recordings and songs tend to be on the hard rock end of things, but one of the songs on my band's upcoming album is definitely heavy metal.

How to recommend miking the cabinet? Amp settings? I am thinking of mid-gain, quadruple tracked guitars, any other opinions? I am using a Diezel VH4 and a 2x12 Diezel Rearloaded (I do not have access to a Front Loaded)

Thank you
=Josh

PS Here is an example of a typical sound I get from my Diezel, but I feel it is more "hard rock" and not heavy enough for a metal tune :)
https://soundcloud.com/highvoltagemt/colors
 
JoshXR":2ibrnzvj said:
Hey all,

I am no stranger to recording, and have several years and hundreds of hours of experience.

But I want to get a few opinions on recording heavy metal guitar sounds with the VH4. Most of my recordings and songs tend to be on the hard rock end of things, but one of the songs on my band's upcoming album is definitely heavy metal.

How to recommend miking the cabinet? Amp settings? I am thinking of mid-gain, quadruple tracked guitars, any other opinions? I am using a Diezel VH4 and a 2x12 Diezel Rearloaded (I do not have access to a Front Loaded)

Thank you
=Josh

PS Here is an example of a typical sound I get from my Diezel, but I feel it is more "hard rock" and not heavy enough for a metal tune :)
https://soundcloud.com/highvoltagemt/colors
Click to expand...
Any of your mics have presence control on them? This can come in handy.
 
Ventura":2736z67p said:
JoshXR":2736z67p said:
Hey all,

I am no stranger to recording, and have several years and hundreds of hours of experience.

But I want to get a few opinions on recording heavy metal guitar sounds with the VH4. Most of my recordings and songs tend to be on the hard rock end of things, but one of the songs on my band's upcoming album is definitely heavy metal.

How to recommend miking the cabinet? Amp settings? I am thinking of mid-gain, quadruple tracked guitars, any other opinions? I am using a Diezel VH4 and a 2x12 Diezel Rearloaded (I do not have access to a Front Loaded)

Thank you
=Josh

PS Here is an example of a typical sound I get from my Diezel, but I feel it is more "hard rock" and not heavy enough for a metal tune :)
https://soundcloud.com/highvoltagemt/colors
Click to expand...
Any of your mics have presence control on them? This can come in handy.
Click to expand...

Ribbon mic? :scared:
 
ask ola: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjZn49263sU
you'll probably need a metal guitar, metal playing technique and metal attidude, too ;)
also massive metal post-processing in the mix.
i think he's a major sm57-user - right in the speaker's face (not sure about that though)

all said with maximum respect of course
 
Definitely try using a different guitar before anything else; especially the vh4 gives you a lot of whatever you put into it, very analytical. Try using a power-Strat type guitar with a beefy, hotter humbucker, of course drop d could help fatten it up too additionally.
 
As far as amp EQ settings go, try:

Channel 3

Gain: 12:00 - 2:00
Channel Volume: 2:30
Treble: 2:45
Mid: Maxed Out
Bass: 11:30
Deep: To Taste (but start around 11:00
Presence: 12:00 - 2:30
Master: To Taste (but at least 10:00 - 11:00)

As you raise the master on the VH4, it will reach maximum volume around 12:00. After that volume doesn't really increase, only power amp saturation. For heavy metal, you'll probably want to keep the power amp clean. So master below 12:00 is a good idea. That's why you should run the channel volume higher.

With EMG pickups and these settings, you'll get a really aggressive growl. Bring up the presence or treble a bit to get more saturation for a scooped sound, but with the mids maxed out, you'll still have all the bite and cut you need for a mix.
 
FourT6and2":h7mx2xjo said:
As far as amp EQ settings go, try:

Channel 3

Gain: 12:00 - 2:00
Channel Volume: 2:30
Treble: 2:45
Mid: Maxed Out
Bass: 11:30
Deep: To Taste (but start around 11:00
Presence: 12:00 - 2:30
Master: To Taste (but at least 10:00 - 11:00)

As you raise the master on the VH4, it will reach maximum volume around 12:00. After that volume doesn't really increase, only power amp saturation. For heavy metal, you'll probably want to keep the power amp clean. So master below 12:00 is a good idea. That's why you should run the channel volume higher.

With EMG pickups and these settings, you'll get a really aggressive growl. Bring up the presence or treble a bit to get more saturation for a scooped sound, but with the mids maxed out, you'll still have all the bite and cut you need for a mix.
Click to expand...


You know, the whole time I have owned the VH4, I had no idea it maxed out volume at 12:00. Thank you for letting me know, I think that might be the source of my issue (I usually drive the master hard to get power amp saturation...a habit from the Marshall days).

I have different guitars, but have less faith in all of them. I would take my PRS over my Les Paul Standard any day :thumbsup: :rock: But that's just me :)


P.S. How far would you recommend driving the channel volume? Is there a preferred level, in your guys' opinion? volume is not an issue, as guitars are always recorded loud in the studio :)
 
kahawe":1ckgbu3x said:
Definitely try using a different guitar before anything else; especially the vh4 gives you a lot of whatever you put into it, very analytical. Try using a power-Strat type guitar with a beefy, hotter humbucker, of course drop d could help fatten it up too additionally.
Click to expand...

No Power-Strat in my arsenal, but if I need Strat-esque sounds I can coil tap my pickups on the PRS.

The tune is in Drop C#, so no worries about tuning :) We normally play in E-Flat, but sometimes drop down to Drop C# for the darker songs, or more chord options in some keys (for example, we have an f minor song in Drop tuning, as well as F# minor)
 
JoshXR":1kjk0goq said:
No Power-Strat in my arsenal, but if I need Strat-esque sounds I can coil tap my pickups on the PRS.
Click to expand...
Well, I meant more like fat humbucker, fixed bridge on an alder/ash-body + maple top for maximum "oomph" - because I think your McCarty and Gibson are closer to each other and for me those guitars really shine at giving more of a beautiful singing lead tone while heavy riffs and palm-mutes always sound a bit more muffled on their own, with bite but less lows... while the powerstrat just feels more heavy and ground-shaking and clearer, well at least for me.
Hence the idea of trying that route.

I don't think you need crazy output pickups especially with Diezels especially with the vh4, but typical PAFs probably get you closer to classic rock and classic metal than to modern larger-than-life-chugga-chugga or fat heavy metal.

I would borrow you my C66 but sorry, you are too far away! :aww:
 
JoshXR":7es6roso said:
A ribbon mic over a traditional SM57/e906/i5?
Click to expand...

Well if you have these I would go for something like the i5 and 57 at pointed away from the speaker cap on the cone region or towards the cone edge, and would point the 906 slightly off axis closer to the cap for some bite. That should get you the job done.
 
JoshXR":2pjwycis said:
P.S. How far would you recommend driving the channel volume? Is there a preferred level, in your guys' opinion? volume is not an issue, as guitars are always recorded loud in the studio :)
Click to expand...

Depends on where you set the master. But I'd push the channel volume around 1:00 - 2:00, with the master around 11:00 or so — maybe higher if you want a looser sound with power amp distortion.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I tracked guitar last night for 7 hours (10pm to 5am) and am very happy with the results.

Here are the settings I used for the Vh4

Bass: 11:00
Mid: 2:00
Treble: 2:00
Deep: 10:00
Presence: 12:00
Channel 3 Volume: 2:30
Master Volume 11:00

I used two mics - Sennheiser e906 and a 421 - a very German setup :lol: :LOL: :rock: I recorded two Diezel rhythm tracks and two Marshall rhythm tracks - so a total of 4 rhythm tracks with two mics each - 8 tracks for rhythm...very beefy! I still have a lot of mixing to do and some solos and leads (The metal song in question has a 3 minute outtro guitar solo section and I was focusing on rhythm for 4 different songs last night)
 

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Definately go with a ribbon mic. Cascade Fat Head II is great and affordable. You would also want to combine it with a dynamic. Either the SM57 or MD421 would do the job so you can keep the attack while the ribbon mic would give you body and wamrth. I have used them for recording down-tuned metal guitars and results are more than excellent. One thing though, you need to make sure you don't stretch the ribbon of the mic by slightly angling it when you place it in front of the grill cloth.
 
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