Tonal/Volume differences between 16ohm and 8ohm cabs??

[Stramm8]

I did a cabinet comparison this afternoon and was a little stunned by my discovery. I picked up a Tonemaster 4x12 the other day that is wired for 16ohms. The first thing I noticed was the amp was way more alive through this cab. It was noticeably louder, had a hair more gain and just sounded better. I then plugged into my Mesa 2x12, set the amp to 8ohms and sure enough it was not as loud, a little less gain etc. I know this isn't very scientific since the cabs are different:

4x12 vs. 2x12
front loaded vs. rear loaded
V30s vs. V30 and H75

That said, am I just hearing things or is this common knowledge? I read something Howard Kaplan wrote regarding the EVH cabs being wired 16ohms because it uses all the windings in the transformer and EVH likes the tone better but I thought it was just some marketing bullshit So here's my test (just wanking around). Settings on the amp are the same, only difference is switching between 16 and 8ohms.
16ohms

8ohms

 

[steve_k]

Now, try it through the same 16 ohm cab with the amp set at 16 ohm then repeat with the amp set at 8 ohm and tell us what you hear, or feel. You will probably notice some subtle changes that will make you go "damn"....

 

[glip22]

16 ohm FTW Steve are you telling him to run a 16ohm cab in the 8 ohm of the amp out. The only thing he will feel and hear is his OT saying goodnight.

 

[Chris6870]

16 ohm FTW Steve are you telling him to run a 16ohm cab in the 8 ohm of the amp out. The only thing he will feel and hear is his OT saying goodnight.

Nope. That is fine. The other way around is bad. small Ohm running into bigger ohm cab ok. big ohm running into smaller ohm cab, bad juju.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I figured this little known fact, secret, whatever you want to call a few years ago. 16 Ohm mono-wired 4X12s, simply sound better. Brighter, livelier, a little more cutting, more highs, and more high-end. Not as dark, bassy, and boomy as a 8 Ohm 4X12. I just really prefer the sound of 4 16 Ohm speakers in a 4X12 vs. 4 8 Ohm speakers wired in the same fashion in the same 4X12. I'm glad I'm not the only one who hears the difference.

 

[Stramm8]

So, if I plug (2) 16ohm cabinets into the back of my amp (I would now have an 8ohm load) and I set the impedance to 8ohms, will I experience the same subtle drop in volume/gain etc.? I'm guessing yes...no? I was going to buy another TM cab since I would love to run a two cab set up for certain gigs but if the tone is gonna change, I'll stick to one...

 

[Anonymous]

16 ohm FTW Steve are you telling him to run a 16ohm cab in the 8 ohm of the amp out. The only thing he will feel and hear is his OT saying goodnight.

Nope. That is fine. The other way around is bad. small Ohm running into bigger ohm cab ok. big ohm running into smaller ohm cab, bad juju.

okay so if my cab is wired to 8ohms, can i put it up to 16ohm without hurting it or is it the 4 ohm.. if anyone can help me out with this that would be awesome..

 

[Chris6870]

16 ohm FTW Steve are you telling him to run a 16ohm cab in the 8 ohm of the amp out. The only thing he will feel and hear is his OT saying goodnight.

Nope. That is fine. The other way around is bad. small Ohm running into bigger ohm cab ok. big ohm running into smaller ohm cab, bad juju.

okay so if my cab is wired to 8ohms, can i put it up to 16ohm without hurting it or is it the 4 ohm.. if anyone can help me out with this that would be awesome..

If your cab is 8 ohms, you can safely run an amp set to 8 ohms or 4 ohms into it.
Just realize that the signal is going from the amp to the cab, then look at the numbers as a math problem, does 8 (ohm head) go into 8 (ohm cab), yes, does 16 (ohm head) go into 8 (ohm cab), no. Simple.

 

[Kaleiwahea]

16 ohm FTW Steve are you telling him to run a 16ohm cab in the 8 ohm of the amp out. The only thing he will feel and hear is his OT saying goodnight.

Nope. That is fine. The other way around is bad. small Ohm running into bigger ohm cab ok. big ohm running into smaller ohm cab, bad juju.

okay so if my cab is wired to 8ohms, can i put it up to 16ohm without hurting it or is it the 4 ohm.. if anyone can help me out with this that would be awesome..

As long as the amp is set to a lower number than the cab, you're fine. You may not like the sound, but it's not hurting anything. Amp set higher than cab = BAD.

16 Ohm cabs sound best.

Commence rocking

 

[Chris6870]

Lower or equal

 

[steve_k]

Gary had a brain freeze.....

 

[IndyWS6]

16 ohm FTW Steve are you telling him to run a 16ohm cab in the 8 ohm of the amp out. The only thing he will feel and hear is his OT saying goodnight.

Nope. That is fine. The other way around is bad. small Ohm running into bigger ohm cab ok. big ohm running into smaller ohm cab, bad juju.

okay so if my cab is wired to 8ohms, can i put it up to 16ohm without hurting it or is it the 4 ohm.. if anyone can help me out with this that would be awesome..

If your cab is 8 ohms, you can safely run an amp set to 8 ohms or 4 ohms into it.
Just realize that the signal is going from the amp to the cab, then look at the numbers as a math problem, does 8 (ohm head) go into 8 (ohm cab), yes, does 16 (ohm head) go into 8 (ohm cab), no. Simple.

Or, for the math inhibited, look at it as a "minimum". Whichever speaker output you use on an amp, that is the minimum impedance of the cab that you should connect it to:

8 ohm out --> 8 or 16 ohm cab
16 ohm out --> 16 ohm cab only

 

[glip22]

Gary had a brain freeze.....

You are correct. I knew this and feel very stoopid now .Bigger into smaller is always better.

 

[Stramm8]

Now, try it through the same 16 ohm cab with the amp set at 16 ohm then repeat with the amp set at 8 ohm and tell us what you hear, or feel. You will probably notice some subtle changes that will make you go "damn"....

So what should I expect to hear?? better, worse, lower volume? Just pondering while at work...

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

From my experience, there are subtle differences.............mainly between 8 and 16 ohm speakers themselves. A single 8 ohm speaker in a 1x12 cab compared to an identical speaker (except 16 ohms) in the same cab.............the 8 ohm speaker will be "slightly" warmer and more focused. The 16 ohm speaker will be more open with more high end/presence. I prefer 8 ohm speakers in 1x12 cabs because they sound less "fizzy" to me when using high gain. But these are VERY slight differences though and don't really smack you in the face as being "immediately" noticeable.

A much bigger difference is series/parallel vs parallel/series wiring. A 4x12 wired with 16 ohm speakers in series/parallel will be warmer and smoother with less high end "artifacts/ratty-ness" in the gain. A 4x12 wired with 16 ohm speakers in parallel/series will be noticeably brighter and noticeably louder...........also it "punches" more. But I prefer the warmer, more focused tone of series/parallel. The difference is quite noticeable if you have never compared the two schemes.

 

[Anonymous]

16 ohm FTW Steve are you telling him to run a 16ohm cab in the 8 ohm of the amp out. The only thing he will feel and hear is his OT saying goodnight.

this isn't ALWAYS true.
it DEPENDS ON THE AMP.
mesa even recommends mismatches in EITHER direction for different tones.

would i or do i do it? nope. not even with the mesa's i've owned, there's just no reason to put that strain on the OT and other components that could be affected.

stick with the safe....as long as the ohms from the amp are lower than what the cab is set at, you wont blow things up/or, cab is higher than amp, you're fine.

for some of you who want the math for useable combination of 4/8/16 that will keep your amp in mind working at 4ohms or above, here ya go:

cab1 = 8 cab2 = 8
8x8=64
8+8=16
64/16=4

SOif you have two 8 ohm cabs, you'd run the AMP in 4 ohm mode

cab1 = 8 cab2 = 16
8x16=128
8+16=24
128/24=5.3333333
you CAN run your amp in 4 ohm mode safely. most times FMHO, the 16 ohm cab usually sounds weaker though, not bad, just weaker and not as full, if i remember correctly.

cab 1 =16 cab 2 = 16
16*16=256
16+16=32
256/32=8
you'd set your amp at 8

sorry for the long math blabber.

the short version = 2 8 ohm cabs =4
2 16ohm cabs = 8
16 and 8 = 4

2 cabs at 4 ohms each wont run safely with most amps, unless you have a 2 ohm output on the amp
same with 4 ohms and 16 ohms needs a 2 ohm tap
same with 4 and 8. needs a 2 ohm tap

also, if you're planning on Multimetering your speakers, you're not going to get accurate readings (ie, 16 ohms on a 16 speaker, ie, respectively).. as i understand it, you can't measure inductance like this, and that's what you'd be trying to measure off the speaker nubs. a 16 ohm speaker will probably read somewhere aroun 13 ohms....8 will read 6-7, and 4 i can't remember, but can check.

 

[Anonymous]

i use a ported 2x12 at 16 ohms and either a combo at 8 or 4x12 at 16

i DEF notice the 2x12 gets weaker with the combo.

and steve K is absolutely right, you'll notice your amp @ 16 into a 16 sounding fuller/stronger than amp @8 into a 16.

 

[petejt]

To be honest I really don't know how to describe it.

But I have re-wired my 4x12 cab so it has two pairs of 8 ohm speakers wired in series. So basically it is 16 ohms stereo.

With a Mesa/Boogie MarkIV going into one side at 8 ohms, there's an 8-16 ohm mismatch. It still sounds tight, powerful, chunky, and crunchy. I like it.

I've got a Marshall that I'l run into the other side but will probably have that at 16 ohms so it's a 100% correct match.

 

[some dude]

An 8ohm speaker and a 16ohm speaker aren't identical speakers. They use a different gauge and length of wire around the coil in order to achieve the different impedances, which gives slight differences to the tonal response.

Eminence actually lists different specs for each speaker type, of which I'm going to cherry pick a few;

Wizard 16Ω
Resonance 100Hz
Usable Frequency Range 70Hz - 6kHz

Wizard 8Ω
Resonance 89Hz
Usable Frequency Range 70Hz - 5.5kHz

Beyond that, unless I miss my mark you're comparing the sound of Mesa OEM V30s to the off the shelf V30s in your Tonemaster. They may both say V30 on them but they're not the same speaker. The Mesa V30 is darker, smoother and sits a bit lower in the mids. The regular V30 is brighter, edgier, with more of an upper mid peak.

Here's a comparison I did a little while ago...

Dual Rectifier, Mesa V30 in a Mesa 1x12

Dual Rectifier, Celestion V30 in a Mesa 1x12

 

[Stramm8]

An 8ohm speaker and a 16ohm speaker aren't identical speakers. They use a different gauge and length of wire around the coil in order to achieve the different impedances, which gives slight differences to the tonal response.

Eminence actually lists different specs for each speaker type, of which I'm going to cherry pick a few;

Wizard 16Ω
Resonance 100Hz
Usable Frequency Range 70Hz - 6kHz

Wizard 8Ω
Resonance 89Hz
Usable Frequency Range 70Hz - 5.5kHz

Beyond that, unless I miss my mark you're comparing the sound of Mesa OEM V30s to the off the shelf V30s in your Tonemaster. They may both say V30 on them but they're not the same speaker. The Mesa V30 is darker, smoother and sits a bit lower in the mids. The regular V30 is brighter, edgier, with more of an upper mid peak.

Here's a comparison I did a little while ago...

Dual Rectifier, Mesa V30 in a Mesa 1x12

Dual Rectifier, Celestion V30 in a Mesa 1x12

This is all great information fellas The speakers in the 2x12 are actually a V30 and a Scumbak H75 vs the V30s in the Tonemaster. I fully expected to hear some tonal differences which are obvious. Both cabs sound great. The things that really surprised me were the volume/feel/presence of the amp thru the 16ohm cab vs. 8ohm. I would love to try this with two identical cabs one wired 16ohms and one wired 8ohms. I just never had a 16ohm cab before and or ran an amp in the 16ohm setting, so it was like an epiphany to a certain degree