Uberschall compared to Shiva and XTC?

[peckhart]

Not sure why I never really looked into the Uberschall amps. Guess I had a preconceived notion they are too modern for me. That's pretty dumb though because my feeling is if an amp sounds and feels great and sits in the mix then who the hell in the crowd is measuring modern vs old school tones. I never went after one certain tone or tried to cop the tones of a y given song we do. I find my tone and let it rip.
I've had a 20th EL34 XTC, 101b and 20th Shiva. I think they are all great amps. The XTC amps at the end of the day lack some aggression for me, which ranks them lower in preference for gigging than my Helios and Mark IV. The Shiva I didn't have very long before doing a local trade for the 101b. As it turns out we are trading back tomorrow. The Shiva does have a cool aggression to its grind, but I wasn't totally jiving with the low end. The low end can be massive, but it seemed to not have I individual note punch that I wanted out of it. I am going to give it another go with fresh tubes and a V30 cab. It gave me the impression that maybe the power amp being a pair of tubes vs the quad I have had it almost every other amp the last 10 years was just a different feel I don't prefer. Hoping tubes could change that.
At any rate where do the Ubers sit tonally against those two as a reference? Thinking the Twin Jet might be a pissed off Bogner I could gel with.

 

[FourT6and2]

Bogners never sound "pissed off" to me. They all have a chewy, lower-mid emphasis, with a low-end that blooms and sags. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Just that, seems like you're after a really angry, pissed off, grinding quality?

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I'd recommend the Uber Twin Jet. It does have that mean, evil, grid to it. You just need to use some weird settings. It has a very modified Marshall bright, tight-tight-tight, high-mid cut to it. It's much different from the Shiva, XTC (any version) and the Uber Blue.

I've owned every version of the Uber from the original OG v1.0, Rev 2.0, and Blue... actually several of each. The Blue is really cool too... it is brighter and tighter than the 2 previous versions... but has a thicker/warmer/wider tone. I've got the Blue and TJ right now... and really dig both for different reasons. I would give both the Blue and TJ a shot. They are by far the most evil and aggressive sounding amps Bogner makes.

If you have any questions as to settings with the TJ... let me know... it's not a simple "Marshall tone stack"... so it is far, far, far from intuitive. But when dialed in... watch out. It's mean. It will hang with just about any other high-gainer out there.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Bogners never sound "pissed off" to me. They all have a chewy, lower-mid emphasis, with a low-end that blooms and sags. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Just that, seems like you're after a really angry, pissed off, grinding quality?

Have you tried the Twin Jet or Helios yet? These 2 amps break out of the Bogner tone-mold so-to-speak.

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

My last Uber that Steve convinced me to sell him was super pissed off sounding, key is how you eq the amp.

 

[bste328]

giving what you are describing the Uberschall might be the amp for you!! remember that gain levels can be overwhelming but can also be turned down....I was getting pretty good mid gain tones out of it (read: not uber-crushing levels of gain).

The only downpoint was the overall volume of the clean channel, but if you don't need super pristine cleans - like the Shiva - it will work just as well for you

 

[FourT6and2]

Bogners never sound "pissed off" to me. They all have a chewy, lower-mid emphasis, with a low-end that blooms and sags. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Just that, seems like you're after a really angry, pissed off, grinding quality?

Have you tried the Twin Jet or Helios yet? These 2 amps break out of the Bogner tone-mold so-to-speak.

Haven't tried the TJ nor the Helios. Of the two, the Helios would be the one that might interest me.

 

[peckhart]

I really like my Helios. It has a raw edgy bite to it. I sometimes wish the low end was bigger.
I don't use clean tones at all. Our other guitar player does the few clean parts we have in some songs. I just back off guitar volume for some parts, but pure clean is lost on me at this point.

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

I really like my Helios. It has a raw edgy bite to it. I sometimes wish the low end was bigger.
I don't use clean tones at all. Our other guitar player does the few clean parts we have in some songs. I just back off guitar volume for some parts, but pure clean is lost on me at this point.

If you want more low end than the Helios (and want to stay in the Bogner camp) the Uberschall would be the obvious choice. The Twin Jet can sound boxy and sterile in a sense since it runs KT88's which are not really known for having a real complex tone - they can sound harsh. By comparison, a good Uberschall with EL34 will be fun to play, has more low end than you'd ever use in a band setting, but depending where you set the gain can do rock tones to metal tones. My .02

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Bogners never sound "pissed off" to me. They all have a chewy, lower-mid emphasis, with a low-end that blooms and sags. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Just that, seems like you're after a really angry, pissed off, grinding quality?

Have you tried the Twin Jet or Helios yet? These 2 amps break out of the Bogner tone-mold so-to-speak.

Haven't tried the TJ nor the Helios. Of the two, the Helios would be the one that might interest me.

Cool. The Helios is really the '70s to '80s classic Marshall tones.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I really like my Helios. It has a raw edgy bite to it. I sometimes wish the low end was bigger.
I don't use clean tones at all. Our other guitar player does the few clean parts we have in some songs. I just back off guitar volume for some parts, but pure clean is lost on me at this point.

Definitely give the Uber Blue or Twin Jet a try. Either will do what you want. The TJ is more Marshall sounding... and brighter/tighter/more high mids. The KT88s keep everything tight, focused, and articulate. The 1st channel of the TJ is a really killer higher gain version of a Marshall 2203. I think the TJ might do it for you.

 

[peckhart]

Bumping this back up to see if anyone else has any additional thoughts. Sold my Shiva and weighing options. Uber Blue or TJ are on the short list.
The comment about the TJ w/KT88s being harsh concerns me a bit. I do like the idea of 2 gain channels though.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Bumping this back up to see if anyone else has any additional thoughts. Sold my Shiva and weighing options. Uber Blue or TJ are on the short list.
The comment about the TJ w/KT88s being harsh concerns me a bit. I do like the idea of 2 gain channels though.

I wouldn't say the TJ is "harsh"... it is a Bogner after all... and harsh is one of the last descriptors I'd use. It does sound different from the Blue though (which is why I own both). The closest comparison I could think of is the older JCM800 2203 when they switched to 6550s/KT88s... instead of the classic EL34 power tubes. It's a much cleaner, tighter, more articulate sound. You loose some of the dirty, smoother, crunchy mids... which is why some maybe think it sounds "harsh"???


I don't think you can go wrong either way. If you are wanting more classic Marshall, bright, aggressive-crunchy, upper-mids, tones... go TJ.

If you want a more modern, low-mid voiced, thicker, smoother, warmer, chunky tone... go Blue.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Since you own the Helios... here is a good comparison of the TJ to the Helios 50W :::

The biggest difference to me, is that the TJ sounds more articulate for the heavier rhythm chords.

 

[John4021]

I have ;
Ubershall blue
Twin Jet
.....and a KT88 modded XTC with Marvel Mod.

If you want bang for the buck,just get a Rev Blue.
Easy to dial in plus you can find these for under $2000.00

The Twin Jet is a different beast. Sounds better with some speakers ,but not impressed with others.
I looked up older post on the Twin Jet and found some great preamp tube recipes from Steve K.
Had Gold Lion KT88's in it(@$200.00 a quad) till one red plated...fuckin junk.
Go watch a You Tube video from Ubershall JP . Get a good look at his settings. Not the norm by any means
but it kicked ass. This,as everyone who owns one will tell you is a "dial by ear,not eyes".

The XTC is in a class of its own so we wont even go there (Marvel mod makes it a keeper and the KT88's
give it a growl to keep a smile on your face )

Trust me. Rev Blue. Keep the gain about 1 o'clock. And use your guitars volume to
tame it down for some bluesy tones.

 

[maddnotez]

I can't help much but I will say this. I have a Rev 2 and it is a killer amp. I did a side by side with a Twin Jet and that is also a very killer amp.

The TJ was a bit tighter and seemed to like Passive Pups more while the Rev 2 seemed a bit more open and liked Actives more.

With that said I use the Rev 2 with passives and it still sounds killer but I go for the modern metal tone. It is a great amp IMO and the low end is indeed very massive. It is ridiculous to a point where you need the right cab.

I could agree that it is a pissed off amp BUT I had a 100CL Pitbull and that took being pissed off to another level. I actually miss that amp and want another but can't part with the Rev 2.

If you have the extra money and are set on an older Uberschall I would highly recommend looking into a KSR Orthos or even Gemini or whatever. To me it sounds similar to the Rev 2, keeping that massive low end but with a more defined and musical low end and slightly better mids?

Tom has a good video out there A/B'ing the two amps if curious.

Either way it is a fantastic amp and yes, you will need to spend a lot of time with the settings because they work like no other amp that I have played.

 

[Ventura]

Bogners never sound "pissed off" to me. They all have a chewy, lower-mid emphasis, with a low-end that blooms and sags. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Just that, seems like you're after a really angry, pissed off, grinding quality?

Have you tried the Twin Jet or Helios yet? These 2 amps break out of the Bogner tone-mold so-to-speak.

Haven't tried the TJ nor the Helios. Of the two, the Helios would be the one that might interest me.

Helios is more Marshall in its DNA.

Twin Jet is a different kettle of fish. It's nuclear. Get the Purple Mod if you can find it, or just a straight outta the box stock TJ.

They're nuts.

 

[fusedbrain]

Bumping this back up to see if anyone else has any additional thoughts. Sold my Shiva and weighing options. Uber Blue or TJ are on the short list.
The comment about the TJ w/KT88s being harsh concerns me a bit. I do like the idea of 2 gain channels though.

I currently own a Helios 50watt and a TJ, and just parted ways with a 101b due to it's " lack of aggression", so I have a pretty good handle on how the 3 compare.
The TJ lower gain channel continues up the gain tree from where the Helios leaves off with a killer high gain 2203 voice. Then the TJ high gain channel just goes nuclear, as Ventura said.
Helios & a Twin Jet go together like peanut butter and jam.
Don't be concerned about the KT88's and any "harshness". Reinhold voiced the amp beautifully. If, however, you miss the mid crunch of EL34's, you can do what I did and load it up with 6550's. No mods required, just a bias check. The 6550's take a little off the top and punch up the mids a bit vs the KT88's. Amp sounds great either way.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Bumping this back up to see if anyone else has any additional thoughts. Sold my Shiva and weighing options. Uber Blue or TJ are on the short list.
The comment about the TJ w/KT88s being harsh concerns me a bit. I do like the idea of 2 gain channels though.

I currently own a Helios 50watt and a TJ, and just parted ways with a 101b due to it's " lack of aggression", so I have a pretty good handle on how the 3 compare.
The TJ lower gain channel continues up the gain tree from where the Helios leaves off with a killer high gain 2203 voice. Then the TJ high gain channel just goes nuclear, as Ventura said.
Helios & a Twin Jet go together like peanut butter and jam.
Don't be concerned about the KT88's and any "harshness". Reinhold voiced the amp beautifully. If, however, you miss the mid crunch of EL34's, you can do what I did and load it up with 6550's. No mods required, just a bias check. The 6550's take a little off the top and punch up the mids a bit vs the KT88's. Amp sounds great either way.

I concur with all of this.

I've been tempted several times to pick up another XTC 101b or 20th Ann EL34... but the lack of aggression, just not evil, mean, cutting enough... always turns me off. Great amps... just not my first pick for the stuff I play.

6550s are another good option. They are a tad more crunchy, and "familiar" sounding compared to KT88s for some. I really love KT88s and have been using them for years. They just really stay tight, articulate, and focused under tons of gain and low end.