Under Lock and Key

[paulyc]

You liked In My Dreams better than Till the Livin End or The Hunter ? I say MEH to that.

 

[rupe]

I got this album as a teen back then:

I don't really like mid-late 80's stuff:

1. "Unchain the Night" MEH
2. "The Hunter" MEH
3. "In My Dreams" OK, I liked it
4. "Slippin' Away" MEH
5. "Lightnin' Strikes Again" WEAK
6. "It's Not Love" Great song
7. "Jaded Heart" UGH
8. "Don't Lie to Me" Dont even remember this one
9. "Will the Sun Rise" G**
10. "Til the Livin' End" WEAK

You're clearly in the wrong place

 

[jerrydyer]

A great example is jaded heart. you can hear the marshall then the rockman kind of back and forth. its cool. when used right its killer. just about everything recorded during those 2 to 3 years had rockman on it. it was just so easy to lay it down and get out.

 

[gtr31]

Slippin away .Jaded heart is probably all rockman for the chorused compressed cleans.
I say his main tones are Marshalls on the dirt.
the leads could be mix of Marshall and Rockmans

 

[petejt]

There is no way the ULAK dirty rhythm tone is a Rockman. Anyone who owned one at the time knows there is no way that thing had enough gain for that tone. I'll buy that it might've been used for the clean tones. No way for dirt. Plus, as Ralphie mentioned, Michael Wagener, who gave a detailed description never mentioned a Rockman.

On another note, that dirty rhythm tone on ULAK is one of my favorite hard rock guitar tones. I definitely was modeling my live tone after it once I heard it back then...

Steve

This sounds like TOTAL Rockman to me going thru a hotrod Marshall.

I hear what you mean.


But I think what you're all forgetting that the 'Rockman' headphone amp was basically a modelling unit to replicate Tom Scholz' live setup of an MXR graphic EQ boosting a tonne of 800Hz into a Marshall amp...


And when you 'double' that sound with a chorus effect, it further emphasises that central midrange Squawk, which become synonymous with the Boston/Rockman sound.

 

[paulyc]

The Rockman wasn't sent thru a Marshall...it was mixed in along side it (straight into the board). I think that some songs have more and some have less mixed in...and NONE on the solos IMO.

 

[rupe]

The Rockman wasn't sent thru a Marshall...it was mixed in along side it (straight into the board). I think that some songs have more and some have less mixed in...and NONE on the solos IMO.

And you know this how?

 

[Elric]

Let's take this one step further.... furman PQ3.. overpriced on the used market and apparently noisy as hell. Anyone making anything in pedal form? I know the majic box people had started something but it never went into production. Pauly had mentioned that parametric EQ's are the way to go, anything not costing 300$ out there? Nice and simple would be ideal.

PaulyC, are the newer black 6 band MXR EQ's as effective as the 70 and 80's blue EQ's?

It probably violates your "nice and simple" requirement but I had one of these for years and loved it:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... -processor

sold it when I got my AxeFx which has a bunch of different EQ blocks available but would not hesitate to use one again. They are fantastic tools.

 

[rupe]

Understood...the way you worded your post I thought maybe you had some inside info. It appears that there are multiple ways to the same end result...this Lynch tone chase is become epic in a VH1 sort of way

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

It is almost MORE epic than VH because Lynch used countless amps and modded amps later on not to mention pedals and cabs. Not even sure Lynch knows what exactly ended up on those records.... the sound engineers mixed it all in, he just liked the sound of everything he tinkered with. At least with Ed we know to start with a Superlead.

 

[paulyc]

Oh Jesus don't start with the Ed thing...we'll be here for HUNDREDS of pages !

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

lol no need to, we all know he got his tone using distortion boxes, high gain amps, preamp gain only, low volume, and direct recording. What's to discuss?

 

[paulyc]

The hidden Fostex under the packing blanket under the console trick !

 

[paulyc]

Know what...I MIGHT believe that the Rockman was sent to the Fostex hidden under the packing blanket under the console and then through the console or direct to tape and mixed in in varying amounts for each song...

But NOT all 16 channels of Marshall and Laney Godliness !

 

[mentoneman]

@ rupe : try it sometime. Scholz's whole reason for inventing the Rockman was to do away with amps, speaker cabs and mics. It's sole purpose (originally) was to get the Boston guitar sound on tape with no muss no fuss. He wanted an easy way to go direct and get great sound . How do I know that ? Because I'm a gear nerd and I've read all I could about a handful of guitar players and how they got "their" sound...Scholz is on that list. I'm 43, and Boston was on the radio EVERY DAY when I was a kid (growing up in Boston) and Boston 1 was the greatest guitar sound I had ever heard (at least until VH1 and then the whole LA Metal scene)...I'm also an electronics nerd. I have a scope, bias my own amps, build effects pedals for fun, and dabble in recording a bit. Nothing , to me, sounds beter than a dirty guitar. (although I love clean jazz guitar too, but I can't play it) There probably aren't too many players whose gear I haven't at least looked over or at...I have a natural curiosity about sound in general. I love old recording gear and analog synths too (ARP, MOOG etc...) even though I don't play keyboards...I just love ...sounds. The opening keyboards on Van Halen's 1984 give me goosebumps almost as much as Eruption (well, maybe not...but you get the idea) Tom Scholz was a mad genius and his company SR&D was only a few towns away from where I grew up as a kid, so somehow that made it even cooler that it wasn't invented in a big city like NY or LA...but not far from home. And that album was a MEGA HIT...EVERYONE had a Rockman then...even if it was only for the headphone feature. Their advertisements read like a who's who of guitar back then, and it's not too far out of the question (at least in my mind) that a band like Dokken, struggling to get that big hit, wouldn't try a little Scholz magic mixed in with the Marshalls (and Laneys) trying to boost album sales (remember Hysteria ?). How do you define what makes an album sell ? Slaughter sold a lot of copies of their first record, but I wouldn't say it was great playing or great songs...but that album SOUNDS incredible (to me at least)so was it production ? I don't know...sh*t...there isn't even a DRUMMER on that record. The drums were ALL programed. Google it. I could see the Dokken boys sitting around thinking " Maybe the guitars don't sound right...lets try on some of Boston's sound...they sold about a billion..." or something like that. Especially when I read much later (after George had left) that Don couldn't make up his mind about wheather he should go "alternative or heavier"...talk about conviction. It's all about what sells...at least to get your foot in the door.

....time to go buy a boston album

i was a big lynch fan back in the day and as cool as i thought his recorded tones were,
NOTHING he has ever recorded touches the tone he was getting LIVE on the under lock and key tour the night i saw him at irvine meadows. i still think it was the greatest live hard rock tone i've ever heard, with brad gillis on ozzy diary of a madman a distant second.

ej and landau are, for me, the current tone kings for what i am currently into, but lynch had the modded marshall thing locked up in the zenith of that era.

 

[mentoneman]

The hidden Fostex under the packing blanket under the console trick !

rockman shmockman that thing blew
but i had a cheapo fostex 4 track cassette recorder and the thing was dead quiet and pretty darn fat sounding--blew away the tascam portastudio---but the akai was better still.

 

[Anonymous]

@ rupe : try it sometime. Scholz's whole reason for inventing the Rockman was to do away with amps, speaker cabs and mics. It's sole purpose (originally) was to get the Boston guitar sound on tape with no muss no fuss. He wanted an easy way to go direct and get great sound . How do I know that ? Because I'm a gear nerd and I've read all I could about a handful of guitar players and how they got "their" sound...Scholz is on that list. I'm 43, and Boston was on the radio EVERY DAY when I was a kid (growing up in Boston) and Boston 1 was the greatest guitar sound I had ever heard (at least until VH1 and then the whole LA Metal scene)...I'm also an electronics nerd. I have a scope, bias my own amps, build effects pedals for fun, and dabble in recording a bit. Nothing , to me, sounds beter than a dirty guitar. (although I love clean jazz guitar too, but I can't play it) There probably aren't too many players whose gear I haven't at least looked over or at...I have a natural curiosity about sound in general. I love old recording gear and analog synths too (ARP, MOOG etc...) even though I don't play keyboards...I just love ...sounds. The opening keyboards on Van Halen's 1984 give me goosebumps almost as much as Eruption (well, maybe not...but you get the idea) Tom Scholz was a mad genius and his company SR&D was only a few towns away from where I grew up as a kid, so somehow that made it even cooler that it wasn't invented in a big city like NY or LA...but not far from home. And that album was a MEGA HIT...EVERYONE had a Rockman then...even if it was only for the headphone feature. Their advertisements read like a who's who of guitar back then, and it's not too far out of the question (at least in my mind) that a band like Dokken, struggling to get that big hit, wouldn't try a little Scholz magic mixed in with the Marshalls (and Laneys) trying to boost album sales (remember Hysteria ?). How do you define what makes an album sell ? Slaughter sold a lot of copies of their first record, but I wouldn't say it was great playing or great songs...but that album SOUNDS incredible (to me at least)so was it production ? I don't know...sh*t...there isn't even a DRUMMER on that record. The drums were ALL programed. Google it. I could see the Dokken boys sitting around thinking " Maybe the guitars don't sound right...lets try on some of Boston's sound...they sold about a billion..." or something like that. Especially when I read much later (after George had left) that Don couldn't make up his mind about wheather he should go "alternative or heavier"...talk about conviction. It's all about what sells...at least to get your foot in the door.

....time to go buy a boston album

i was a big lynch fan back in the day and as cool as i thought his recorded tones were,
NOTHING he has ever recorded touches the tone he was getting LIVE on the under lock and key tour the night i saw him at irvine meadows. i still think it was the greatest live hard rock tone i've ever heard, with brad gillis on ozzy diary of a madman a distant second.

ej and landau are, for me, the current tone kings for what i am currently into, but lynch had the modded marshall thing locked up in the zenith of that era.

I was there for that Dokken Irvine Meadows ULAK show and it was indeed epic tone, probably my 2nd favorite of all time, however, Joe Holmes live with Ozzy on the OzzFest is without doubt the greatest live hard rock tone I've ever heard. My jaw dropped when he hit the first note.

Steve

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Holmes did have huge tone live.. I'll prob get slammed for this but for me the most epic live tone was Mick Mars! Yeah I know! Not when I saw them late 80's, but actually his live tone now. It is HUGE. Brad Gillis I was never a fan of but i didn't hear him play live so not a fair assessment to make.

 

[mentoneman]

Holmes did have huge tone live.. I'll prob get slammed for this but for me the most epic live tone was Mick Mars! Yeah I know! Not when I saw them late 80's, but actually his live tone now. It is HUGE. Brad Gillis I was never a fan of but i didn't hear him play live so not a fair assessment to make.

guess i need to make a point of finding some joe h recordings!
anything cool that's not too gwar lyrically?

gillis had awesome tone but he was no randy!

 

[paulyc]

He may not be an equally talented player as Randy, but his live tone on " Speak of the Devil" and the King Biscut Flower Hour recordings are WAY better than Tribute, and Tribute had all kinds of technology at it's disposal (re-amping, etc...) that the other two did not...

@ mentoneman : If you buy a Boston album, buy the first one...and keep in mind when it was recorded...back in 75 or 76 I think. it's not earth shattering today,but for back then it was Godlike.