Very interesting view of Michael Wagener on the Kemper amp

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eljodon

eljodon

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I got this from a heated discussion on Gearslutz and Micheal Wagener stepped in and gave his opinion.
I have been doing guitar based records for almost 40 years and I have worked with a ton of excellent guitar players (Zakk, Steve Stevens, George Lynch, Nuno, Vito Bratta, Wolf Hoffmann, Mick Mars, James Hetfield, Kane Roberts, Scottie and Snake from Skid Row, Chris Impelliteri, Dimebag, Ty Tabor etc.) and just as many great amps. The Kemper is a game changer and is hands down THE best piece of gear that walked though my studio door in the last 20 years.

I am a stickler for guitar tone and I don't take guitar tone lightly. I've tried all the simulators more than once with a bunch of different players and I didn't like ANY of them (still don't). They don't do your right hand justice, so they make you play different. The Kemper is different, it is not a simulator it is a profiler, to me that makes a big difference.

I have about 50 different guitar amps, guitar pre-amps, and lots of cabinets, microphones and mic pres. They all sound great for something, all great in their own way. Rarely do I just use one single amp/cab/mic, most of the time I use combinations.

I re-amped a DI guitar track through my Splawn together with a Bogner module, via two 4x12 cabs with 3 different speakers and 4 different mics via the Chandler TG-2 mic pre and the Trident A-range mic pre, mixed together to one track by the CraneSong Spider, and the sound was killer. Recorded the live amp track into Nuendo, I then profiled that exact setup, straight out of the Spider and re-amped the same DI track through the Kemper profile of that setup and punched it in and out of the original amp track: I could not hear a difference, I could not tell where the amp track ended and the Kemper track started and vice versa. That is close enough for me. If I can not tell a difference with the track in solo, nobody will be able to hear a difference when I'm done with the mix!

The secret is in getting a great profile and there are a bunch of things to be paid attention to, like the actual return level, the level going into the Kemper, refining the profile the correct way etc. If done right, I can not tell the profile from the original, if NOT done right, there will be a noticeable difference.

Am I going to sell all my amps? Of course not, there are a million combinations that sound good and are special to a particular track or song. Will I profile that combination used on that particular track? Yes, of course. Do I like other peoples profiles, yes, some of them are very good and are very inspiring, some others don't fit my style, so I won't use them.

I love being able to give the guys the exact sound they got in the studio on their album to take on the road.

I think the Kemper KPA is an amazing piece of gear and it does make my job easier.

my 2 cents - now back to making music.
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How can you not take that into serious consideration? All I need now is a M Wagener to program all my tones if I take the plunge.

I have no recording skills, am a hack guitar player at best, and hate to tweak. I would need to use others tones in short.
 
fek":3sbvdjdq said:
All I need now is a M Wagener to program all my tones if I take the plunge.
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I'd bet money something like that will eventually happen.
 
I'm planning to get one as soon as they make a rack mounted version. That's one of the reasons I didn't upgrade to the Axe Fx 2. I use my Axe Fx Ultra for live gigs and also a bass amp for in studio.
 
Yep. And the Fractal conspiracists are stating that because of Wagener's "German" lineage, he's taking sides with a "German" company.

Interestingly enough though, UK Guitarist's "Best of 2012" just out this month? Kemper over the Fractal. I am still awaiting the feedback on that decision from their readership.

Peace
Mo
 
I'm a bit out of the Michael Wagener loop. I love some the stuff he produced in the 80's. Is there anything I should be listening to that he has worked on lately? I know he has an impressive rack of modded MTS modules, but that is all I've heard of him lately.
 
Jdguitar":2jijgejy said:
I'm a bit out of the Michael Wagener loop. I love some the stuff he produced in the 80's. Is there anything I should be listening to that he has worked on lately? I know he has an impressive rack of modded MTS modules, but that is all I've heard of him lately.
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Great point. Then again, I prefer the old school tones over most of the current ones. Back when MW was making records, no two albums had the same tone. In today's world, they are almost all very similar. YMMV.
 
I'm surprised 'ol Wagener couldn't hear all the aliasing -

Cliff says - Kemper's dirty little secret is that internally it only runs at 22.05 kHz. This means there is no frequency content above 11 kHz and everything above that is aliasing noise. If you have good hearing (i.e. young) you will probably pick up on this more readily.It does sound better than many other products, especially at lower gains where the aforementioned limitation is not as critical.

Wagener's ears must be fucking shot.
 
I am also waiting for a rack unit ...
MW has done a lot of work I very much like....

Most guitar amps are rolled off before 12kHz ?

I have never seen the Kemper ... but have seen more than one person mention the aliasing ? .... Just curios if anyone would talk about this in more detail ?
 
lester":25jdfrnu said:
I'm surprised 'ol Wagener couldn't hear all the aliasing -

Cliff says - Kemper's dirty little secret is that internally it only runs at 22.05 kHz. This means there is no frequency content above 11 kHz and everything above that is aliasing noise. If you have good hearing (i.e. young) you will probably pick up on this more readily.It does sound better than many other products, especially at lower gains where the aforementioned limitation is not as critical.

Wagener's ears must be fucking shot.
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For a guy that puts down the Kemper so much its fascinating thats he has spent the last year adding many features that are very similar.

for instance Tone Match he has said is basically what the profiler does in "refining stage"
Added compression and dynamics in the pre amp.
A lot of people complaining about the pick attack and voila 9.0 gives you the new improved Pick attack parameter.

the new 10.0 software talks about multi point modelling and taking several snapshots of the amps with the tone controls set at different points ,multiple setings of the same amp
butI am sure thats not similar to taking several profiles of an amp
 
I've never heard the aliasing on my unit, done lots of gigs with eagle-eared sound guys that would have mentioned it too, also done some studio work with it - no aliasing complaints there either. Apparently 1.6 firmware 'fixes' the alias issue that I never noticed, but for some folk it's been the fix.
 
I've never tried the Kemper and I didn't post this because I agree with Michael Wagener. I just found it interesting what he thinks about the Kemper. Saying that his point of view might not be valid because he hasn't done anything since the 80's might be a bit harsh.He has more expereience recording guitars than many producers out there. Recording a guitar hasn't changed at all since they still use the same mics, and old preamps like the Neve, API, TG2's etc. The guitar sound might be a bit different but the recording technique is the same. So I wouldn't dismiss he's opinion as being "dated" The main thing is how does it sound in a mix with drums, bass,etc. I'm planning to buy one and see what I think, if I don't like it I'll just sell it , but if do like it I will still keep my amps.
 
lester":3h38d5zr said:
I'm surprised 'ol Wagener couldn't hear all the aliasing -

Cliff says - Kemper's dirty little secret is that internally it only runs at 22.05 kHz. This means there is no frequency content above 11 kHz and everything above that is aliasing noise. If you have good hearing (i.e. young) you will probably pick up on this more readily.It does sound better than many other products, especially at lower gains where the aforementioned limitation is not as critical.

Wagener's ears must be fucking shot.
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Let's take a Vintage 30 loudspeaker and examine the frequency response

55-4732_3.jpg


And the response of an SM57

shure-sm57-charts.gif


And the response of typical pickups with tone pot changes

image003.gif


You get where I'm going with this?

Personally I'd love to see Cliff's plots from his HP 35670 (or analyzer of his choice), but from what I've found it's only been his word about the Kemper frequency response. No facts, figures, or data. Just the word of a competitor.

Anyone want to loan me a Kemper? I'll run a response on some 24-bit 204.8kS/s acquisition cards at work and see if there's any truth behind this myth.
 
Ventura":sue4ijil said:
Yep. And the Fractal conspiracists are stating that because of Wagener's "German" lineage, he's taking sides with a "German" company.

Interestingly enough though, UK Guitarist's "Best of 2012" just out this month? Kemper over the Fractal. I am still awaiting the feedback on that decision from their readership.

Peace
Mo
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Hey Mo,

Damn... What cars can the Germans drive? No Benz or BMW. :lol: :LOL:

They must be relegated to an old Fiat or something. Cruise the Bahn in an old MGB or something.

I like Wagner over the years of playing. His opinion on guitar tone thru the glory days of shred should matter. If nothing else, he has tread firsthand where most keyboard players have only imagined.

The long clip of Kemper modes that SkyHigh did showed me the K does get the essence of most amps. It is hard to fault the emerging technology. So much good stuff. I don't get the hating bit of the this camp vs that camp. Learn to play the song and use what works best that you can afford.

My philosophy on gear is this. Use gear as a tool, don't be a tool about gear.

Peace
 
gtr31":pgja4zqw said:
For a guy that puts down the Kemper so much its fascinating thats he has spent the last year adding many features that are very similar.

for instance Tone Match he has said is basically what the profiler does in "refining stage"
Added compression and dynamics in the pre amp.
A lot of people complaining about the pick attack and voila 9.0 gives you the new improved Pick attack parameter.

the new 10.0 software talks about multi point modelling and taking several snapshots of the amps with the tone controls set at different points ,multiple setings of the same amp
butI am sure thats not similar to taking several profiles of an amp
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I can see Cliff feverishly running tests of the Kemper saying, "It doesn't matter, the AxeFX is better. Nothing to see here. The AxeFX is better. Hey Scott, can you stroke my ego for me?"
 
I don't think people understand (or don't want to understand) that the profiles that are done the right way, are the ones that will sound good. Anyone can mic a cab and make a profile but if the proper steps aren't taken, and the proper recording techniques aren't taken, it'll most likely sound like ass.
 
Never heard aliasing from the Kemper, and I use mostly high gain profiles. Great profiles are the key to great tones from the Kemper (duh), and there are plenty of free ones available, you just have to tune in to the guys who know what they're doing when the record an amp.

The AxeFx II's Tone Match feature is horrid to my ears. It sounds much better to me with a regular cab block.
 
As someone else wrote... The aliasing has been fixed in release 1.6. Personally, I never heard the aliasing in the first place. I doubt most folks did because, from what I've read, it was so minimal in the first place. So now there's a firmware release, 1.6, that fixed the barely noticeable. :lol: :LOL:
 
I'm intrigued and want to try one out. I haven't heard of anyone who has actually spent some time with one concerned about any aliasing issues...just those who feel that they can make audio judgments with their eyes.
 
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