Very OT: Life-changing decision.

[Bob Savage]

now onto my education rant. i'm not so much anti education, but more of anti getting a degree for the sake of getting a degree. America is so engrained with this gotta have an education to fall back BS, that isn't necessarily supported in the workplace anymore. there's so many jobs requiring degrees getting farmed out to former/borderline 3rd world countries, could easily get a degree for a job that might a 4 or 5 year life span. then what do you do? good chance of becoming the over qualified guy?

There was a time when I agreed with you, however, I am now a proponent of "getting a degree for the sake of getting a degree." Today is a different day than when you and I were 22 and 20 years from now it's going to have changed even more. The fact of the matter is, a bachelor in underwater basket weaving will still help to get your foot in the door for many positions, even if the degree is not applicable to the job. More and more resumes are being placed in the round file these days if there's no degree listed on your resume so it doesn't matter how spectacular of a person you are, you're not being evaluated. Call it unfair, irresponsible, whatever, but it's happening so not having a degree listed is limiting your options.

Additionally, if you get that UWBW degree when you're young and full of energy, you'll have knocked out a LOT of the work and prerequisites required to jump back in once you know what you want to do and further your education. In the end, having experience and being good at whatever you do is what keeps your job and makes you valuable, but the degree may be needed to get in the door, like it or not.

as for the guys i've seen that have gotten the degrees that get you the sit on your ass 40 hours a week jobs because you went to the same school as your asshole boss, i don't really see that as panning out any better than the guys went the working man route out of highschool and get the sit on your ass working man union jobs.

You're off on a tangent. You should know by now that bitterness and resentment are energy drainers. Relax...

 

[Bob Savage]

I'll +1 the getting a business degree. If you think about it, if all else fails and you can't start up your own studio/shop, you still have that degree to fall back on and get a great job somewhere else.

The thing I believe a lot of people neglect to realize about a business admin degree is that it's applicable in a WIDE variety of ways. Once you understand the inner workings of how money is generated and moved internally to fuel a business, you've gained knowledge that isn't just applicable to running your own business. You'll understand how AP/AR runs, financing, investing business capital, public relations, HR and a host of other processes and procedures that are crucial to sustaining a successful business. As an added bonus, if you know how to run a business you'll also know what it takes to be successful with your own personal finances. This alone is something that many, many people don't understand and it's something that can decrease your overall quality of life exponentially if neglected.

 

[Capulin Overdrive]

now onto my education rant. i'm not so much anti education, but more of anti getting a degree for the sake of getting a degree. America is so engrained with this gotta have an education to fall back BS, that isn't necessarily supported in the workplace anymore. there's so many jobs requiring degrees getting farmed out to former/borderline 3rd world countries, could easily get a degree for a job that might a 4 or 5 year life span. then what do you do? good chance of becoming the over qualified guy?

There was a time when I agreed with you, however, I am now a proponent of "getting a degree for the sake of getting a degree." Today is a different day than when you and I were 22 and 20 years from now it's going to have changed even more. The fact of the matter is, a bachelor in underwater basket weaving will still help to get your foot in the door for many positions, even if the degree is not applicable to the job. More and more resumes are being placed in the round file these days if there's no degree listed on your resume so it doesn't matter how spectacular of a person you are, you're not being evaluated. Call it unfair, irresponsible, whatever, but it's happening so not having a degree listed is limiting your options.

Additionally, if you get that UWBW degree when you're young and full of energy, you'll have knocked out a LOT of the work and prerequisites required to jump back in once you know what you want to do and further your education. In the end, having experience and being good at whatever you do is what keeps your job and makes you valuable, but the degree may be needed to get in the door, like it or not.

as for the guys i've seen that have gotten the degrees that get you the sit on your ass 40 hours a week jobs because you went to the same school as your asshole boss, i don't really see that as panning out any better than the guys went the working man route out of highschool and get the sit on your ass working man union jobs.

You're off on a tangent. You should know by now that bitterness and resentment are energy drainers. Relax...

Bob, i'll defenantly agree with you that a degree does open doors. i just don't see a really broad generalized degree, getting one any farther in life than a good high paying trade or service job. there are some damned good paying trade jobs that don't require all that much training.


i'm just basing my spiel on my own life observations of friends and classmates etc. in my experiance the guys who went the working man route after highschool and got the cushy union jobs are probably a little better off than the guys who got the none specific degrees that get you kindda allright job.


really at least half of the successfull people i know, kindda just lucked into thier success. kindda of the right place at the right or the it's not what you know but who you know kind of deals. obviously they're type that's got it going on, but at the time were ski bums or surfing, etc.


guess i'm old school, but for me college is for actually learning something that will be of use at your eventual job. stuff like engineer, doctor, etc. not just some crazy degree that gets you a job, and then you have learn everything on the job anyways.


well, gotta go slop the hogs or i'd rant a little longer.

 

[Jordon]

Wow, I really didn't expect to spark this big of a thread!

This has to be the biggest thread I've ever started...ever!

 

[Bob Savage]

Bob, i'll defenantly agree with you that a degree does open doors. i just don't see a really broad generalized degree, getting one any farther in life than a good high paying trade or service job. there are some damned good paying trade jobs that don't require all that much training.


i'm just basing my spiel on my own life observations of friends and classmates etc. in my experiance the guys who went the working man route after highschool and got the cushy union jobs are probably a little better off than the guys who got the none specific degrees that get you kindda allright job.


really at least half of the successfull people i know, kindda just lucked into thier success. kindda of the right place at the right or the it's not what you know but who you know kind of deals. obviously they're type that's got it going on, but at the time were ski bums or surfing, etc.


guess i'm old school, but for me college is for actually learning something that will be of use at your eventual job. stuff like engineer, doctor, etc. not just some crazy degree that gets you a job, and then you have learn everything on the job anyways.


well, gotta go slop the hogs or i'd rant a little longer.

I certainly see where you're coming from and used to hold very similar opinions. I also realize that you're speaking from your own life experiences (it was obvious from your post), but still stand by my opinions. I believe for young people these days, a degree of some type is as critical for getting in many doors as a high school diploma was when you and I were kids.

I also agree that college is for learning something specific to what your career goals are, however, I believe that if those goals aren't yet realized, one should see a guidance counselor at the college of their choice and begin general ed. If they still don't come up with anything, my opinion is that Business Admin covers a *lot* of useful ground that can be applied generally in many industries. Even if a person decides to go into a trade, many advancement paths either require or highly recommend a degree of some type for the position. I know it seems silly that just any old degree would be viewed as positive, but again that's just how it is.

To ensure that I'm not being misunderstood, I'm speaking practically, based upon the way I perceive the state of business, whether I agree with it or not.

 

[Bob Savage]

Wow, I really didn't expect to spark this big of a thread!

This has to be the biggest thread I've ever started...ever!

It's actually a pretty good topic.

 

[Jordon]

Wow, I really didn't expect to spark this big of a thread!

This has to be the biggest thread I've ever started...ever!

It's actually a pretty good topic.

Go me! I'm glad I could spark some good conversation/debate. I'm learning quite a bit, and that's always a plus.

 

[Zyngath]

I'll +1 the getting a business degree. If you think about it, if all else fails and you can't start up your own studio/shop, you still have that degree to fall back on and get a great job somewhere else.

The thing I believe a lot of people neglect to realize about a business admin degree is that it's applicable in a WIDE variety of ways. Once you understand the inner workings of how money is generated and moved internally to fuel a business, you've gained knowledge that isn't just applicable to running your own business. You'll understand how AP/AR runs, financing, investing business capital, public relations, HR and a host of other processes and procedures that are crucial to sustaining a successful business. As an added bonus, if you know how to run a business you'll also know what it takes to be successful with your own personal finances. This alone is something that many, many people don't understand and it's something that can decrease your overall quality of life exponentially if neglected.

I agree 100% with this. I'm a tax/business consultant working with mostly small businesses and i see people every day that are good at their jobs, work their asses off and still fail to run a successfull business. They fail in most cases not because they are not good at their craft, but because the dont know how to manage the business side of things.

There are probably more good running venues with managers that know nothing about music and bands and sound then there are good running venues with managers that know nothing about busines administration. If you can combine a good knowledge on both sides, your chances are best to be succesfull. The same goes for a studio or every other business imo.

 

[Beergoblin]

The party pooper has arrived!!!

In my opinion, your Plan B (Plan A being something to do with music) should include a college education. You're only 21 years old, which is very young. If things don't pan out for you with the music stuff, unless you want to drive trucks as a career (nothing wrong with that, although your salary is somewhat limited), not having a college degree 10, 20 or 30 years from now is going to be a serious disadvantage for you from a career advancement perspective. Even if you were to eventually want into a lower management position within the trucking industry, you'll be limited without a degree.

Oh, and at 22 years old, it's time to get a move on. You don't want to start college when you're 30, IMO.

Ohh an education is in the picture. Most definately on that one. What I'll go for is still in the air, probably should have clarified that. I'd like to go for music production at either Berklee or Columbia in Chicago. Right now is a big turning point, and I can't really go to school untill I get things figured out. I would love to make a career out of playing music, but I have dreams of owning a studio or venue. That is something I will do, but the stepping stones are a bit shaky to me right now. I'm just so confused and unsure of what I should do.

Thanks everyone!

Just another word of advice concerning the music production degree.....just because you get a degree in that doesn't mean you're going to find work. If you are able to find work, you aren't necessarily going to be making shit.

I have a friend who was going into the that same program at Columbia and ended up dropping after he realized how difficult it was to find a job that actually paid something substantial.

If you know people in the studios that do pay well for those types of positions you may have a leg up, but from I've heard from people who have those positions there aren't many to begin with and you need a connection to get one.

 

[Beergoblin]

Also, I believe you're in the Warrenville area right? Somewhere in DuPage county?

You could always go to COD (a nationally acclaimed community college to everyone who doesn't know of it) and pay that out of your own pocket (granted it will still be hundreds of dollars), but in the long run you would be saving potential interest payments on school loans and the price point per credit hour is much less than a larger school.

If you're going to decide on a four year degree, you could take your first two years at COD and then transfer those credits to a larger institution to actually finish and get a degree (most schools openly accept all of COD's credits). This is the route I have taken and it has saved me a lot of cash.

Also, COD has some two-three year programs such as radiology tech (as well as others you make pretty good money and job security and availability will NEVER be an issue as there are hospitals everywhere and people will always be sick and injured. That program is 2 years after about a year of pre-reqs.

You live right in that area, so setting up an appointment with an advisor there would be an easy and possibly eye opening experience to what they have to offer and possibly help you with.

 

[Anonymous]

I certainly see where you're coming from and used to hold very similar opinions. I also realize that you're speaking from your own life experiences (it was obvious from your post), but still stand by my opinions. I believe for young people these days, a degree of some type is as critical for getting in many doors as a high school diploma was when you and I were kids.

I also agree that college is for learning something specific to what your career goals are, however, I believe that if those goals aren't yet realized, one should see a guidance counselor at the college of their choice and begin general ed. If they still don't come up with anything, my opinion is that Business Admin covers a *lot* of useful ground that can be applied generally in many industries. Even if a person decides to go into a trade, many advancement paths either require or highly recommend a degree of some type for the position. I know it seems silly that just any old degree would be viewed as positive, but again that's just how it is.

To ensure that I'm not being misunderstood, I'm speaking practically, based upon the way I perceive the state of business, whether I agree with it or not.

Dude - You need to go get a job as a guidance counselor!

Steve

 

[Jordon]

Also, I believe you're in the Warrenville area right? Somewhere in DuPage county?

You could always go to COD (a nationally acclaimed community college to everyone who doesn't know of it) and pay that out of your own pocket (granted it will still be hundreds of dollars), but in the long run you would be saving potential interest payments on school loans and the price point per credit hour is much less than a larger school.

If you're going to decide on a four year degree, you could take your first two years at COD and then transfer those credits to a larger institution to actually finish and get a degree (most schools openly accept all of COD's credits). This is the route I have taken and it has saved me a lot of cash.

Also, COD has some two-three year programs such as radiology tech (as well as others you make pretty good money and job security and availability will NEVER be an issue as there are hospitals everywhere and people will always be sick and injured. That program is 2 years after about a year of pre-reqs.

You live right in that area, so setting up an appointment with an advisor there would be an easy and possibly eye opening experience to what they have to offer and possibly help you with.

St. Charles, not far. I'm in-district at ECC, but blech on ECC. I have the basic "plan" ready, where i'm going is still in the planning and development stage.

 

[Bob Savage]

Dude - You need to go get a job as a guidance counselor!

Steve

I think they require a degree for that.

 

[Jordon]

Dude - You need to go get a job as a guidance counselor!

Steve

I think they require a degree for that.

 

[Anonymous]

Dude - You need to go get a job as a guidance counselor!

Steve

I think they require a degree for that.

See... You shoulda followed your own advice.

Steve

 

[Bob Savage]

See... You shoulda followed your own advice.

Steve

 

[SeaDog]

Ok, for what it's worth I'll add my experienced opinion. I dropped out of college after my third semester because I had no idea what I really wanted to major in and I was too busy gigging and trying to "make it". At the time it didn't seem like a big deal because you can always go back right? I worked teaching guitar and gigging from 18 - 25 to make a living. At 25 I had an epiphany and with the way the music world was going I knew my time was over so I moved on to a computer networking career. I went to a tech school to get into and I've spent the last 12 years obsessively devoting my life to building up my career (and income). Now I'm a partner in a successful Networking consulting firm and I make a decent salary (over 100K). The only thing that I really regret is not finishing my degree. It wouldn't have been that difficult to get at least a two year business degree during my early twenties and still continue with music. Now I'm so busy it's going to be almost impossible to get it and at 38 with two children 2 and 4, it's going to seriously take a chunk out of family time. I don't need a degree per say, but it would nicely round out my resume and help open opportunities for me in case my current business ever failed. My long winded advice - get a degree while you're young. Let's not forget that many famous musicians found their musical voice while in school. One last thing - going to school for music theory or production is not much better than not getting a degree as far as careers go. Do it if you truly want to, but their isn't much money in owning a studio or music production unless you "make" it their as well, so it's very risky. Not a very good fall back plan - try minoring in music or production and majoring in business or engineering. Just a though and good luck.

 

[flametal]

I dunno man... maybe if you want to become a country 'n western singer. I just can't see much if any future in truck driving. The money may be appealing initially, but where can you go from there? It's not like you'll be increasing your skills and working your way up. I can't imagine you'll ever be making much more then what you'd be starting at. The only thing you'd have to look forward to is hemorrhoids, no showers, greasy spoons and holding in your urine for hours on end.

Honestly it sounds to me like you only see 2 choices in front of you, things that fell into your lap. At 21 you have the opportunity to do anything you want. Think about what that is and think about where it might lead you and then pursue it. Money is not as important as it seems at 21... you need to think long term.

It is a critical time for you though. You get a good paying job at 21 and soon you have rent and car payments, loans etc, and you can get stuck doing what you're doing because you can't afford to take a job for anything less. Just something to think about.

I am in the exact same sitauation as you actually.