VH Axe Fx New 50watt Jumpered Plexi

[Ventura]

Ya, I've gone all Hollywood.

That's me.

Mark

Word has it he's got a tea-cup terrier in a rhinestone covered travel murse too.

(hey braddah... hope LA's treating ya alright )

 

[Rogue]

Rogue close but no cigar.Adams clip is spot on.Listen to adams clip or for that matter the first Van halen recording and then compare it to the clips that you posted and then hear whats missing.As for Rockstah's mod 5 vs others modding a amp to mod 5 specs they sound different then Marks.Mark tweaked each amp to achieve the sound,he went though the entire amp.Ive played and compared Marks mod 5 to others they sound different.Its just like original Jose Mods,the mods done by Jose sound different then the Jose Mods done by others.Case closed no need for me to go further. As for Metro amp,please....

If you believe the OPs clip is spot on then I agree there is no reason for you to go further. A very good VH tone, yes. Spot on, no.

I have no idea why you rambling about different mod5s other than trying to backtrack on your earlier comment. The clips he posted speak for themselves. He did get closer than anyone to VH tone.

 

[Shark Diver]

Arguing about VH tone/clips - RigTalk is back baby

 

[BYTOR]

It is hard to tell an amp or modeler from a full mix. Do dry clips of both then will see.

Pete Thorn did a couple dry clips a few months ago comparing the Axe-Fx II BE100 model to a clip of the real BE100 and fooled Dave Friedman himself.

Interesting times for sure......

I may be wrong but didn't Pete say that both those clips were the same he just wanted to fool everybody ?

You are wrong. Pete did a raw clip of the real BE100 & the Axe Fx model. Dave Friedman chose the Axe Fx clip as being the real one. Many other people guessed wrong as well.....

 

[Rogue]

Arguing about VH tone/clips - RigTalk is back baby

 

[steve_k]

Seems like the Axe has closed the gap on the Kemper.

I didn't know it had fallen behind.

I think there are enough professionals using the Axe II that it is just a matter of taste rather than quality.

The Axe FX is still the 800lb gorilla. Seems like the Kemper fad is fading. It's hard to come from behind. But, Apple did - so anything is possible.

 

[supersonic]

VH tone chasers selling their Plexis' and buying an A2 in 4....3....2.....1.....

 

[baron55]

In a recording, it is very easy to get a convincing tone or identical. No doubt about it, a modeler can sound like a tube amp on a recording, but keep in mind the recording since it is digital has had compression added and the bandwidth has been reduced. So it is easy for both to sound closer together.

No if someone went old school and recorded these 2 amps on analog tape, you would probably hear a difference. But that is why in person it is very easy to tell the difference. The guitar is a vibrating instrument and we actually feel the vibration and how the amp interacts with it. I have never met or heard of anyone say the modelers sound and feel like the amp they are modeling if they have actually played the real amp. The compression and sag that is produced by voltage swing from your pickups caused from your picking style cannot be simulated. They have been trying for years.

No amp, I mean no amp will sound like EVH! It is impossible, why??? Because your right hand pick attack has a lot to do with the tone coming out of the amp. So unless Mr VH is playing the amp quit chasing something that can never be replicated except from the player himself.


Modelers are great for recording and getting many passable tones as need for gigging in cover bands and recording no doubt about it. But they were never fully be able to sound like a tube amp, why? Because you can't simulate reality.

Now as far as not being able to tell the amp from a modeler in a recording, especially when the amp uses solid state clipping transistors for the majority of the clipping, that is pretty easy to simulate.

I have never heard someone put up warm bluesy tones with the clean tone just barley breaking up. That is tough for a modeler to pull off.

 

[DeezDemos]

I have never heard someone put up warm bluesy tones with the clean tone just barley breaking up. That is tough for a modeler to pull off.

Here's a few clips I did awhile back around FW7 if I remember correctly. Stock Super Verb preset.

 

[zentman]

. The compression and sag that is produced by voltage swing from your pickups caused from your picking style cannot be simulated. They have been trying for years.

(snip)

Modelers are great for recording and getting many passable tones as need for gigging in cover bands and recording no doubt about it. But they were never fully be able to sound like a tube amp, why? Because you can't simulate reality.

(snip)

I have never heard someone put up warm bluesy tones with the clean tone just barley breaking up. That is tough for a modeler to pull off.

You can most certainly argue that in your opinion modeling isn't even close to an amp. You may argue that nothing to date comes close, that's you're opinion and sound is subjective ergo nobody can deny your opinion.

What you can't do is deny physics and electronics theory in general. In theory it is quite possible to do everything you just typed could "never" (1,000 years? Really?) happen. One needs only simulate the path the electrons take through the amp circuit and the randomness that sometimes ensues based on studies and measurements of the circuits involved. There are not an infinite number of variables here. It can and most certainly will be done. This is science not subject to opinion.

The Kemper and the Axe are taking on the challenge, albeit from two different angle. Both are by most accounts, moderately successful at doing so. The Axe is 6-7 years in to it's development as is the Kemper (It was in development for years before release). Give them another ten years (personally I think it will be much less but that's an opinion).

Others are working on it that I am sure we haven't even heard from yet. There is a 99% chance that even the most die hard of tube fans will be swayed over the next twenty years or so. IMHO.

 

[Rogue]

You can most certainly argue that in your opinion modeling isn't even close to an amp. You may argue that nothing to date comes close, that's you're opinion and sound is subjective ergo nobody can deny your opinion.

What you can't do is deny physics and electronics theory in general. In theory it is quite possible to do everything you just typed could "never" (1,000 years? Really?) happen. One needs only simulate the path the electrons take through the amp circuit and the randomness that sometimes ensues based on studies and measurements of the circuits involved. There are not an infinite number of variables here. It can and most certainly will be done. This is science not subject to opinion.

The Kemper and the Axe are taking on the challenge, albeit from two different angle. Both are by most accounts, moderately successful at doing so. The Axe is 6-7 years in to it's development as is the Kemper (It was in development for years before release). Give them another ten years (personally I think it will be much less but that's an opinion).

Others are working on it that I am sure we haven't even heard from yet. There is a 100% chance that even the most die hard of tube fans will be swayed over the next twenty years or so. IMHO.

I agree. As processing power becomes greater, smaller, and more affordable, and as more complex algorithms are developed that can take advantage of the processing power, it's just going to continue to get better.

Then there's the other side of the equation as well....speakers and mics. As time passes and new processes developed, these simulations will get better and better too. I think that is really the weakest of the links now. I think IR tech will have to change from a convolution format to something different to make it closer to replicating reality. Or, at least a different method of capture or something.

They may never achieve complete replication, but will get close enough that human ears can't tell a difference. Feel may be different though, but I believe it will get closer as well.

In the end, the tone in the OPs clip will never make or break a song. So it's really rather moot. But, the debate is surely entertaining.

 

[ejecta]

You can most certainly argue that in your opinion modeling isn't even close to an amp. You may argue that nothing to date comes close, that's you're opinion and sound is subjective ergo nobody can deny your opinion.

What you can't do is deny physics and electronics theory in general. In theory it is quite possible to do everything you just typed could "never" (1,000 years? Really?) happen. One needs only simulate the path the electrons take through the amp circuit and the randomness that sometimes ensues based on studies and measurements of the circuits involved. There are not an infinite number of variables here. It can and most certainly will be done. This is science not subject to opinion.

The Kemper and the Axe are taking on the challenge, albeit from two different angle. Both are by most accounts, moderately successful at doing so. The Axe is 6-7 years in to it's development as is the Kemper (It was in development for years before release). Give them another ten years (personally I think it will be much less but that's an opinion).

Others are working on it that I am sure we haven't even heard from yet. There is a 100% chance that even the most die hard of tube fans will be swayed over the next twenty years or so. IMHO.

I agree. As processing power becomes greater, smaller, and more affordable, and as more complex algorithms are developed that can take advantage of the processing power, it's just going to continue to get better.

Then there's the other side of the equation as well....speakers and mics. As time passes and new processes developed, these simulations will get better and better too. I think that is really the weakest of the links now. I think IR tech will have to change from a convolution format to something different to make it closer to replicating reality. Or, at least a different method of capture or something.

They may never achieve complete replication, but will get close enough that human ears can't tell a difference. Feel may be different though, but I believe it will get closer as well.

In the end, the tone in the OPs clip will never make or break a song. So it's really rather moot. But, the debate is surely entertaining.

It's all bound to get better because they just keep studying tube amp rigs and putting out new firmware on the AxeFX to teach the users what they didn't know they were missing.

Ironically all I have to do is plug into my amp....... oh yeah that's what I was missing.

 

[zentman]

It's all bound to get better because they just keep studying tube amps and putting out new firmware on the AxeFX to teach the users what they didn't know they were missing.

Ironically all I have to do is plug into my amp....... oh yeah that's what I was missing.

Yep to that. Nothing sounds as good to me as a 100 watt Marshall stack cranked to ten. Especially when you're actually standing in the sweet spot and not right in front of it or to the side.

That being said, I am still trying to figure out how to make 500 people stand right where it sounds good and not directly in front of it or off to the side where it sounds like shit.

Then there's that pesky sound guy who has the balls to tell me to turn down. Doesn't he know my amp doesn't sing until it's cranked.


Edit: before anybody screams at me , I'm just playin'.

 

[ejecta]

It's all bound to get better because they just keep studying tube amps and putting out new firmware on the AxeFX to teach the users what they didn't know they were missing.

Ironically all I have to do is plug into my amp....... oh yeah that's what I was missing.

Yep to that. Nothing sounds as good to me as a 100 watt Marshall stack cranked to ten. Especially when you're actually standing in the sweet spot and not right in front of it or to the side.

That being said, I am still trying to figure out how to make 500 people stand right where it sounds good and not directly in front of it or off to the side where it sounds like shit.

Then there's that pesky sound guy who has the balls to tell me to turn down. Doesn't he know my amp doesn't sing until it's cranked.


Edit: before anybody screams at me , I'm just playin'.

I know..... it's amazing I gigged around Nashville all those years with my tube amps, got compliments on my tone, and never got told to turn down. I guess those compliments just came from the people standing in the sweet spot.

 

[zentman]

They were drunk, what do ya expect. I got compliments from drunk guitar players with my Peavey Stereo Chorus 400.LOL

I toured for ten years with Fender, Marshall, Carvin etc. Sounded great where I stood but sometimes I was like a frikkin knife in the front row and mush to the side. Put a Marshall onstage then get a good tone. Now go stand twenty feet in front of the speakers and face them at ear level. Does it change? How about twenty feet to the side?

I actually brought a Twin and a Marshall for a few years so I could get good cleans too. I carried it all myself OMG.

These days it's just too easy to plug in an Axe or Kemper through a couple of CLRs and tickle everybody's ears , everywhere. It really isn't as much of a trade off as some people might have you think. Just bury the F out of it in delay.

Ps, what style did you play back then? Just curious. Any clipsies? BTW, I think your shit is hilarious in case I never let on. Sarcasm at it's finest.

Here's my old touring rig. I brought this so I could get good sound everywhere in the house:

 

[BYTOR]

I own a BE100, Mark V, Quickrod, JVM Satriani & an Axe Fx II. Love 'em all.

If I ever had to sell all of them & just keep one, I'd keep the Axe2. It just does too much too damn well

None of them are going anywhere

 

[Shark Diver]

Especially when you're actually standing in the sweet spot and not right in front of it or to the side.

Not the front nor the sides? What's left? Above? Below? Behind?

JK

 

[zentman]

Especially when you're actually standing in the sweet spot and not right in front of it or to the side.

Not the front nor the sides? What's left? Above? Below? Behind?

JK

Back when I was young and stupid (still one of those), I used a Twin right behind me on the ground, nothing but verb from the amp. Hitting me in the back of my legs it was sublime. Out in the house it had to be ice pick hell. If you have ever blasted a Twin and put your ears at speaker level facing it you'll know what I mean. My poor audiences.

I just love all this new shit. I have 2 DLM8's that weigh in at 21 lbs each. They are 12 inch cubes. Little fuckers put out and the dispersion is 90 degrees , all angles. No matter where I stand it sounds like an album. I know a lot of guys would hate that set up and favor a thumping stack but to me it's much better than what I did to poor souls all those years ago.

 

[controlled_voltage]

i just saw yes and steve howe killed it,basically stealing the show
he was playing thru a stereo line 6 rig
no one in the audience seemed to care that he wasn't using his trademark twins and 2 refrigerator sized racks

 

[Chubtone]

i just saw yes and steve howe killed it,basically stealing the show
he was playing thru a stereo line 6 rig
no one in the audience seemed to care that he wasn't using his trademark twins and 2 refrigerator sized racks

Steve Howe is using Line 6 stuff and we are complaining that Axe FX II's aren't good enough for us in our bedrooms, basements and dive bars.