VH1 tone quest is it finally solved ?!

[NorCal_Val]

I continued my research into Van halen 1 tone.

"Eddie Van Halen mentioned using two Marshall amp heads during the recording of Van Halen's debut album in a 1978 interview with Young Guitar magazine. While he confirmed the use of two amps, he did not provide specific details about the second amplifier."

in 2015 on the metro forums as those were already dead someone pointed to a picture of Pat badger who has been to 5150 studios once and he got a picture with the frankie and the amps that recorded Van halen 1...

Well guess what ?

Eddie used the josé load box to get a line out signal of his 68 plex he then reamped it with a 100w master PA. That was the key how he got his first album tone.

.View attachment 400143

Ed mentioned that Marshall PA amp in his 1980 Guitar Player interview. It was the house PA amp from the Rose Palace in Pasadena.
Interesting.
*i’m probably remembering this wrong, it’s been over 40 years…

 

[Luca79]

Do you think Ed was using a 250k or 500k ohm volume pot?

 

[harddriver]

Ed mentioned that Marshall PA amp in his 1980 Guitar Player interview. It was the house PA amp from the Rose Palace in Pasadena.
Interesting.
*i’m probably remembering this wrong, it’s been over 40 years…

From what I remember it was Ed's main plexi 12301 that was the house amp at the Rose Palace. That's why alot of people speculate that the knob on the back more than likely was a some type of a master volume. Only people that played through that amp before Ed bought it would know if it had a master volume or not. Not that it really matters now since it has been proven that any good Marshall can get those sounds as shown by Jacob Deraps over and over again.

 

[NorCal_Val]

From what I remember it was Ed's main plexi 12301 that was the house amp at the Rose Palace. That's why alot of people speculate that the knob on the back more than likely was a some type of a master volume. Only people that played through that amp before Ed bought it would know if it had a master volume or not. Not that it really matters now since it has been proven that any good Marshall can get those sounds as shown by Jacob Deraps over and over again.

Yeah.
As I said, it’s been a looooooooooong time since I read those first 2 GP interviews.
As for getting the classic early VH tone, the closest I’ve ever gotten to the tone that inspired me to play guitar, is with my Bogner Helios 100, on 30w setting, no preamp EQ, hot input, 70s setting, phase 90, and a Lovepedal Echophonic jr out front.
And a Suhr 4x12 with 25w greenbacks. And a Duncan Screamin Demon pickup.
I tend to be in the “it’s the player, not the gear” camp.
Buuuuuuuut, the gear does contribute.

 

[hammered]

Ed mentioned that Marshall PA amp in his 1980 Guitar Player interview. It was the house PA amp from the Rose Palace in Pasadena.
Interesting.
*i’m probably remembering this wrong, it’s been over 40 years…

He mentions his legendary Marshall in that interview

 

[NorCal_Val]

He mentions his legendary Marshall in that interview

Cool! Thanks for digging that up!

 

[harddriver]

Yeah.
As I said, it’s been a looooooooooong time since I read those first 2 GP interviews.
As for getting the classic early VH tone, the closest I’ve ever gotten to the tone that inspired me to play guitar, is with my Bogner Helios 100, on 30w setting, no preamp EQ, hot input, 70s setting, phase 90, and a Lovepedal Echophonic jr out front.
And a Suhr 4x12 with 25w greenbacks. And a Duncan Screamin Demon pickup.
I tend to be in the “it’s the player, not the gear” camp.
Buuuuuuuut, the gear does contribute.

I think it was you who mentioned the lovepedal echophonic jr pedals and I got one to try and I love it! So thanks! I bought two of them and use them all the time! They replaced my EP3 echoplex and my old EM5's and the mix knob works great to get it to set right in front of my 68 plexi and other amp when I run the delay up front.

With all the great plexi and superlead amps like the SL68, Helios, UK68, Metroplex out there now the VH1 mystique is all but a fun memory but it's still fun to jabber about it every now and then.

 

[harddriver]

He mentions his legendary Marshall in that interview

And there it is in that 1979 interview.............."Live I use new Marshall's"

As shown in all the live videos right after the Japan tour where he was without all of his amps including 12301 and he used new Marshall amps as Rudy admits to having to get more amps quickly since they were on tour and it was still killer tones live without 12301 as proved in the Selland Arena and Niagara Falls September 1978 shows of which there is video and audio evidence on YT. Not that there wasn't a little magic with 12301 the new Marshall's were getting it done just as well on tour IMHO.

https://www.themightyvanhalen.net/1978/03/03/1978/

June 17, 1978	Tokyo	Japan	Tokyo Cultural Hall
June 19, 1978
June 21, 1978	Nakano Sun Plaza Hall
June 22, 1978
June 24, 1978	Nagoya	Nagoya Civic Assembly Hall
June 25, 1978	Osaka	Festival Hall
June 27, 1978	Osaka Cultural Hall

September 8, 1978	Niagara Falls	Niagara Falls Convention Center [65]
September 9, 1978	Baltimore	Baltimore Civic Center
September 10, 1978	New Haven	New Haven Coliseum
September 12, 1978	Indianapolis	Indianapolis Convention Center
September 14, 1978	Detroit	Cobo Arena
September 15, 1978	Richfield	Richfield Coliseum
September 16, 1978	St. Louis	Checkerdome
September 17, 1978	Kansas City	Kansas City Municipal Auditorium
September 18, 1978	Tulsa	Tulsa Assembly Center
September 22, 1978	Fresno	Selland Arena

So he didn't have his 78 tour amps that he did the first leg of the tour from July 1st to December of 1978, all those shows done without 12301 according to that interview.

 

[Stradazone]

There's no such thing as a 'magic Marshall', pickup, seceret mod, or choke mod haha...EVH would have sounded the same with any heallthy dimed Superlead, was in his hands, end of story..

 

[RaceU4her]

so glad to hear the mystery is finally solved!! cant wait to rock "Aint talkin' bout Love" now the proper way

 

[japetus]

so glad to hear the mystery is finally solved!! cant wait to rock "Aint talkin' bout Love" now the proper way

IT'S SUPREME 160 TIIIIIIIMEEE!!!!!!

 

[romanianreaper]

I think for years, people were so focused on the gain structure, EQ, etc. for the "Brown Sound". It was almost this idea that a certain amp, pickups, pedal, etc would get someone so close to that tone. I don't think most understood the variacs role of a "must have" to really get his tone.

 

[harddriver]

Do you think Ed was using a 250k or 500k ohm volume pot?

I like 500K pots but Jim Gaustad did like the 250K pot with his early JB..... You are going to have to see which value pot you prefer.

 

[marvcus]

There's no such thing as a 'magic Marshall', pickup, seceret mod, or choke mod haha...EVH would have sounded the same with any heallthy dimed Superlead, was in his hands, end of story..

. My ‘69 Plexi gets me in the vicinity, but the hands are not there. You can hear shades of that tone though.

 

[Markedman]

I thought for sure you'd just post a picture of Eddiie's hands!

 

[Luca79]

I like 500K pots but Jim Gaustad did like the 250K pot with his early JB..... You are going to have to see which value pot you prefer.

I remember he said that in a vid. I'm gonna try the 250K without the tone, compared to 500K with tone for a SSH strat.

 

[DanTravis62]

Yeah.
As I said, it’s been a looooooooooong time since I read those first 2 GP interviews.
As for getting the classic early VH tone, the closest I’ve ever gotten to the tone that inspired me to play guitar, is with my Bogner Helios 100, on 30w setting, no preamp EQ, hot input, 70s setting, phase 90, and a Lovepedal Echophonic jr out front.
And a Suhr 4x12 with 25w greenbacks. And a Duncan Screamin Demon pickup.
I tend to be in the “it’s the player, not the gear” camp.
Buuuuuuuut, the gear does contribute.

Honestly, you can get really close with lots of different gear, as long as you can play it. Every piece contributes. I'd say the greenbacks are one of the most essential parts though.

I'm convinced that 100% of people who think there is a "magical secret that no one knows yet, and I'm gonna find it" are just bad/beginner players who don't know what they don't know.

 

[njshred]

The only guy on earth not chasing that VH1 tone was Eddie Van Halen.

 

[DanTravis62]

The only guy over 50 years old on earth not chasing that VH1 tone was Eddie Van Halen.

Fixed it for you, it's a dead horse that's been flogged into paste, and everyone is beating the bloody dirt at this point

Most younger guitar players are like "oh yeah, that's neat" and moved on because there are, in fact, other awesome guitar tones that exist

 

[* velcro-fly *]

It's insane, it's on the level of 34 year old white women with taylor swift, only it's the literal exact same conversations happening over and over, year after year, like groundhog's day happening every single second of every single day for centuries

Seriously the reamp setup has been common knowledge forever, and doesn't have a ton to do with the core tone IMO

Funny how much I sound like me through virtually anything.....a guy plugged into my 3rd Power rig recently and sounded just like him and ya know for about a second there I second guessed it hahahaha

The chase is not exactly futile, but it is.

Denny Diaz of Steely Dan fame recently mentioned that when they tracked two guitars or harmonies they always had the same guy do it, regardless if there were two guys on the session, because all of the inflections and phrasing. Denny Diaz playing Larry Carltons rig still sounds just like Denny Diaz.