VHT SigX availability

[Odin]

PTP vs PCB bullcrap.

NON-Electronics EE blabber with a hint of sniffer.

I agree, who brought PTP into this and why?

 

[Digital Jams]

PTP vs PCB bullcrap.

NON-Electronics EE blabber with a hint of sniffer.

I agree, who brought PTP into this and why?

Have not read the entire thread but yes my comment was directed towards you and your pics......build time is just one line item on the spreadsheet while calulating total cost.

 

[Bob Savage]

Assuming that VHT is assembled in the USA then they should be cheaper than similarly featured amps that are built with similar quality components but have chassis mounted pots and tubes.

How much do 3 channel PTP amps with a footswitch and comparable features to the Six:X cost?

What does PTP have to do with anything? Other than Matchless, I haven't seen a PTP amp in decades.

You know what I'm asking but I'll try to clarify just in case.

I would like to know how much "handwired" amps that are comparable in features, channels and footswitch to the Sig:X cost. You posted pictures of an amp that looks like a turret board amp, so let's see some comparisons between 3 channel, comparable features amps with a footswitch that are hand wired, turret based amps.

 

[Odin]

How much do 3 channel PTP amps with a footswitch and comparable features to the Six:X cost?

What does PTP have to do with anything? Other than Matchless, I haven't seen a PTP amp in decades.

You know what I'm asking but I'll try to clarify just in case.

I would like to know how much "handwired" amps that are comparable in features, channels and footswitch to the Sig:X cost. You posted pictures of an amp that looks like a turret board amp, so let's see some comparisons between 3 channel, comparable features amps with a footswitch that are hand wired, turret based amps.

I have no idea if anyone is making a handwired turret board 3-channel amp with footswitch. I wouldn't, when you have that much circuitry it makes sense to use PCB's. In fact, in an amp of that complexity the PCB would likely be more reliable since the rats nest of wired required would probably make the turret board a complete mess, and lead dress would be a nightmare.

None of that is relevant to chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. Many PCB amps utilize chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. My Mesa Recto, Soldano, Splawn, Bogner, etc... all have chassis counted pots and tube sockets, and they all use PCB's with flying leads to the chassis mounted components.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

None of that is relevant to chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. Many PCB amps utilize chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. My Mesa Recto, Soldano, Splawn, Bogner, etc... all have chassis counted pots and tube sockets, and they all use PCB's with flying leads to the chassis mounted components.

The newer 3 channel Recto's and Roadster/Roadking have a smaller PCB strip now that holds the powertube sockets. Preamp tube sockets have always been on the PCB.

Bogner has always had preamp tube sockets mounted on the PCB as far as I know. The Uberschall has a separate PCB strip for the powertube sockets, the Shiva has chassis mounted powertube sockets I think.

The Uberschall also has a small PCB strip that the pots are attached to, but they are bolted to the chassis as well, just like VHT's.

Things definitely seem to be going in a direction where everything is getting PCB'd it seems

 

[Bob Savage]

I have no idea if anyone is making a handwired turret board 3-channel amp with footswitch. I wouldn't, when you have that much circuitry it makes sense to use PCB's. In fact, in an amp of that complexity the PCB would likely be more reliable since the rats nest of wired required would probably make the turret board a complete mess, and lead dress would be a nightmare.

None of that is relevant to chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. Many PCB amps utilize chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. My Mesa Recto, Soldano, Splawn, Bogner, etc... all have chassis counted pots and tube sockets, and they all use PCB's with flying leads to the chassis mounted components.

This is as I expected. Thanks for playing.

 

[Odin]

I have no idea if anyone is making a handwired turret board 3-channel amp with footswitch. I wouldn't, when you have that much circuitry it makes sense to use PCB's. In fact, in an amp of that complexity the PCB would likely be more reliable since the rats nest of wired required would probably make the turret board a complete mess, and lead dress would be a nightmare.

None of that is relevant to chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. Many PCB amps utilize chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. My Mesa Recto, Soldano, Splawn, Bogner, etc... all have chassis counted pots and tube sockets, and they all use PCB's with flying leads to the chassis mounted components.

This is as I expected. Thanks for playing.

Yes. Totally irrelevant. My initial, and only, point was that the pots and power tubes should be chassis mounted.

 

[Odin]

None of that is relevant to chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. Many PCB amps utilize chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. My Mesa Recto, Soldano, Splawn, Bogner, etc... all have chassis counted pots and tube sockets, and they all use PCB's with flying leads to the chassis mounted components.

The newer 3 channel Recto's and Roadster/Roadking have a smaller PCB strip now that holds the powertube sockets. Preamp tube sockets have always been on the PCB.

Bogner has always had preamp tube sockets mounted on the PCB as far as I know. The Uberschall has a separate PCB strip for the powertube sockets, the Shiva has chassis mounted powertube sockets I think.

The Uberschall also has a small PCB strip that the pots are attached to, but they are bolted to the chassis as well, just like VHT's.

Things definitely seem to be going in a direction where everything is getting PCB'd it seems

My Mesa Triple Recto (early 2 channel model) had chassis mounted power tubes and pots.

My Bogner Shiva has chassis mounted power tubes and pots.

My Splawn Quickrod has chassis mounted tubes and pots.

They are 3 very different companies, ranging from huge corporations with giant advertising budgets and hundreds of endorsements to tiny basically one-man operations.

All 3 cost less than the VHT.

 

[Zyngath]

None of that is relevant to chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. Many PCB amps utilize chassis mounted pots and tube sockets. My Mesa Recto, Soldano, Splawn, Bogner, etc... all have chassis counted pots and tube sockets, and they all use PCB's with flying leads to the chassis mounted components.

The newer 3 channel Recto's and Roadster/Roadking have a smaller PCB strip now that holds the powertube sockets. Preamp tube sockets have always been on the PCB.

Bogner has always had preamp tube sockets mounted on the PCB as far as I know. The Uberschall has a separate PCB strip for the powertube sockets, the Shiva has chassis mounted powertube sockets I think.

The Uberschall also has a small PCB strip that the pots are attached to, but they are bolted to the chassis as well, just like VHT's.

Things definitely seem to be going in a direction where everything is getting PCB'd it seems

My Mesa Triple Recto (early 2 channel model) had chassis mounted power tubes and pots.

My Bogner Shiva has chassis mounted power tubes and pots.

My Splawn Quickrod has chassis mounted tubes and pots.

They are 3 very different companies, ranging from huge corporations with giant advertising budgets and hundreds of endorsements to tiny basically one-man operations.

All 3 cost less than the VHT.

What is so important about chassis mounted tubes and pots, in your opinion? I dont see the big deal. VHT amps are really not known for melting and breaking PCBs.....

And btw...i dont think comparing the 3 amps you named to the Sig-x is fair. None of them have the same amount of features that the Sig-x offers...just my 0,02 €

 

[Bob Savage]

What is so important about chassis mounted tubes and pots, in your opinion? I dont see the big deal. VHT amps are really not known for melting and breaking PCBs.....

And btw...i dont think comparing the 3 amps you named to the Sig-x is fair. None of them have the same amount of features that the Sig-x offers...just my 0,02 €

Please allow me to assist:

For that kind of money I expect a certain level of quality in construction.

 

[Zyngath]

What is so important about chassis mounted tubes and pots, in your opinion? I dont see the big deal. VHT amps are really not known for melting and breaking PCBs.....

And btw...i dont think comparing the 3 amps you named to the Sig-x is fair. None of them have the same amount of features that the Sig-x offers...just my 0,02 €

Please allow me to assist:

For that kind of money I expect a certain level of quality in construction.

Thank you, Mr. Savage.

 

[Odin]

What is so important about chassis mounted tubes and pots, in your opinion? I dont see the big deal. VHT amps are really not known for melting and breaking PCBs.....

It's not "so important" to me to have the pots and power tubes mounted to the chassis, but it is something I consider to be a good practice.

Power tubes create a lot of heat, and the sockets are subject to being moved around a good bit when replacing tubes. A solid mount to the amp chassis offers extra protection against damage when replacing tubes and takes some of the high heat/voltages off the board traces.

I have never personally experienced a problem with my amps that had PCB mounted tubes.

Chassis mounted pots and jacks are a bigger issue to me. First, the pots are constantly being touched and moved, and any stress on those pots (should be minimal) is put on the PCB if they are PCB mounted. A chassis mounted pot or jack will transfer any stress to the chassis and be inherently more sturdy (reliable). Nobody can argue this point. You may argue that chassis mounted pots are overbuilt for a guitar amp, but you can't argue that a PCB mounted pot, even if the PCB is sturdy and mounted to the chassis, is as secure as a chassis mounted pot.

I have personally experienced problems with amps that had PCB mounted pots.

These days I'm not playing 100+ shows a year and my gear isn't being loaded in and out of a trailer twice a day in all weather conditions by people of questionable caution, but when I was I really appreciated the extra sense of security I got from knowing that my turret board and chassis mounted amps were (a) overbuilt and (b) easy for me to service in a motel room with the tools I had with me.

I believe that a sturdy PCB that is securely mounted to the chassis is probably not going to be any problem for a properly used and cared for amplifier.

I have nothing against VHT's construction methods, and my experience with VHT has been that they are built like tanks.

Regardless, their practice of putting all components on PCB's is probably done because it keeps the amp build very consistent and dramatically reduces labor costs. I'm all for that, but I expect to see a reduced cost to the consumer if the manufacturing process reduces cost at the expense of compromising build.

And btw...i dont think comparing the 3 amps you named to the Sig-x is fair. None of them have the same amount of features that the Sig-x offers...just my 0,02 €

I wasn't comparing the amps by feature (as I believe the VHT is much more versatile that the other amps) but by construction method. Those other amps all use chassis mounted pots and power tubes, and they manage to do so at consistently lower price points than VHT, and all of those other amps are well regarded.

I believe that you are paying for more name with a VHT than you are with some other amps. VHT is not alone in that regard. Does anyone really believe that a Soldano SLO is worth more than $1500? It's not. You can build a SLO for well under $1K. There is no justification for the price tag on a SLO. But I applaud Mike Soldano for his ability to successfully sell SLO's at those prices. I am a capitalist and understand his reason for pricing his amps high. I would do the same thing if I were him since the market will bear those prices.

But I won't personally pay those prices for any amp (unless I'm sure I can sell it for a serious profit).

 

[Zyngath]

I wasn't comparing the amps by feature (as I believe the VHT is much more versatile that the other amps) but by construction method. Those other amps all use chassis mounted pots and power tubes, and they manage to do so at consistently lower price points than VHT, and all of those other amps are well regarded.

Well those added features do make the production of an amp a lot more expensive....add R+D costs (they must be working on the sig-x for at least 1 year now (probably a lot longer). And more features pretty much always lead to more necessary components and labour...
So comparing amps by built quality and price only is not really valid imo. Otherwise an amp that is built to survive a direct hit by a nuclear missile and only costs 50 $ would be the best amp on the planet even if it only has an on/off switch...

I believe that you are paying for more name with a VHT than you are with some other amps. VHT is not alone in that regard. Does anyone really believe that a Soldano SLO is worth more than $1500? It's not. You can build a SLO for well under $1K. There is no justification for the price tag on a SLO. But I applaud Mike Soldano for his ability to successfully sell SLO's at those prices. I am a capitalist and understand his reason for pricing his amps high. I would do the same thing if I were him since the market will bear those prices.

But I won't personally pay those prices for any amp (unless I'm sure I can sell it for a serious profit).

Again, components and labour are not the only things that add to a price. The SLO comes with a lifetime warranty for example. That surely adds quite a bit to the price....just as an example. I'm not sure what the production of 1 SLO really costs....but neither do you. I kinda react allergic to the accusation that something is overpriced. Its thrown around so often, when people clearly dont have any information about how those prices are calculated.

But i'm not here to discuss amp prices....we are all free to buy the amps that seem to suit us best. If an amp seems too expansive to someone, they just dont buy it...its as easy as that.

The good thing is that there are so many amps to choose from....or is it really a good thing

 

[Odin]

I kinda react allergic to the accusation that something is overpriced. Its thrown around so often, when people clearly dont have any information about how those prices are calculated.

Let me assist you...Soldano, Two Rock, etc... are way overpriced, no matter what anyone says about anything. There is nothing about any of those amps that costs any more than any other boutique amp, they prices are strictly driven by what the market will bear. Just because there are many fools with money doesn't mean something isn't overpriced.

Companies like Dr Z, Splawn, etc...build high quality amps with top quality components and construction methods, and they keep their prices reasonable. I don't hold a grudge against the builders who overcharge with exorbitant prices, I just don't need any snake oil bad enough to pay those silly prices. But the bottom line is, if it's worth it to you then it's worth it to the only person who matters.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

http://www.larry-amplification.de/image ... etail3.jpg

http://www.larry-amplification.de/galle ... ure&id=100

http://www.larry-amplification.de/galle ... ture&id=96


4 channel Larry Dino 939 ptp ... $6900.00
This is why VHT doesn't go to these extremes.

kw

 

[stephen sawall]

For me tone, then how long it well last , after that how many "real voices" can I get out of it. The guys like VHT who have been doing this for some time I do not worry about. There are the newer amp's like some of the {Marshalls-etc} that almost seem like toys. But in most cases you get what you pay for. I would think If [VHT -etc] was having a lot of problems with the amps they would change things. If nothing else to save them time fixxxxing them. The small guys can not put out junk very long and stay in the game.

 

[Odin]

http://www.larry-amplification.de/images/stories/amplifiers/dino939/dino939_int_detail3.jpg

http://www.larry-amplification.de/galle ... ure&id=100

http://www.larry-amplification.de/galle ... ture&id=96


4 channel Larry Dino 939 ptp ... $6900.00
This is why VHT doesn't go to these extremes.

kw

Sweet! Somebody breathed a lot of solder smoke making that one.

Of course, the $6900 price tag is ridiculous. You can't tell me that it costs as much to make that amp as it does a Kia Rio. But I'd rather have the Larry amp than the Kia Rio.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

http://www.larry-amplification.de/images/stories/amplifiers/dino939/dino939_int_detail3.jpg

http://www.larry-amplification.de/galle ... ure&id=100

http://www.larry-amplification.de/galle ... ture&id=96


4 channel Larry Dino 939 ptp ... $6900.00
This is why VHT doesn't go to these extremes.

kw

Sweet! Somebody breathed a lot of solder smoke making that one.

Of course, the $6900 price tag is ridiculous. You can't tell me that it costs as much to make that amp as it does a Kia Rio. But I'd rather have the Larry amp than the Kia Rio.

Definitely a work of art!!

 

[bartmcartman]

I don't care if it's made of playdough and bottle caps as long as it makes the girls up front flick their bean when I hit a big fat open G Chord... I want one!

 

[Bob Savage]

I refuse to pay for any amplifier. They're all over priced. I'm officially boycotting all amp manufacturers.

Thank you, drive through...