Wet/Dry/Wet fans can give me some help?

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adrianher

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Hi there, I'm rebuilding my w/d/w guitar setup because I've changed my Mesa 2:90 power amp for a Marshall El34 50/50 power amp.

To simplify the things:

I'm using a multi amp set up with a CAE amp switcher, that gives me the chance to split the signal for Dry and wet.

The problem start when I run the CAE amp switcher LINE OUT to feed the wet section. I need to set the power amp gain at max volume and need to set the cae line out knob at Max to get some sound in wet cabs. And it's still not enough.

With Mesa 2:90 I got good sound setting it almost at max and cae line out at 10 o'clock (maybe because it has more power than 50/50???).

I really down know what to do. Maybe to add a CAE boost/line driver pedal (I have it) to push wet signal up?

I hope anyone can help.

Thanks a lot

Adrian
 
Post a full list of your gear and config, please. That'll make it easier to diagnose. You most certainly shouldn't be turning the power amp all the way up! That's crazy.
 
I'll describe the signal chain starting from dry signal and then the wet signal:
1) line 6 G90 wireless system
2) cry baby dcr1sr
3) rjm music rg 16 switcher (I use loops for pedals: over drives and
Boosters)
4) Custom Audio Electronics Amp switcher (I connect multiple amps there)
5) dry 4x12 cab

Wet chain:
1) CAE amp switcher line out
2) CAE 4x4 looper (I connect there the effects: tc1210, tc2290 and lexicon pcm90.
3) effects goes to CAE dual line mixer (to set effects in serie or parallel).
4) Marshall 50/50 stereo power amp (using both channels L & R)
5) 2 x 4x4 wet cabs.

That all my set up. I used to had a Mesa boogie 2:90 stereo power amp, but I've changed for the Marshall.
When I connect the Marshall power amp I've noticed that wet signal is not strong enough, setting volume and presence at max.
I disconnected all effects and went from CAE line out straight to power amp and same result.

I've plugged the guitar straight to power amp and volume was not so loud as a 50W guitar amp should be. I was able to play at max volume without any ear pain. I've heard many 50W guitar amps and they are loud as hell. Maybe there is something wrong with the Marshall power amp?

Maybe change pre and power tubes to check?
 
I've plugged the guitar straight to power amp and volume was not so loud as a 50W guitar amp should be. I was able to play at max volume without any ear pain. I've heard many 50W guitar amps and they are loud as hell.
Click to expand...

That power amp is expecting a line level signal, not instrument level. I think you need to review all your gain stages and verify you are maintaining unity. You may need a line level shifter but I would think the CAE devices should have it covered. Perhaps an internal level dip switch?
 
I've already made these tests right now:

1) I've changed the CAE amp switcher (it's a 4 amps switcher) for another CAE switcher (it's a 2 amp switcher): same result. Dry cab is louder than wet cab setting power Amp channel at max volume and line out switcher knob at max.

2) I've tested with my egnater ss4 amp switcher: same results as 1).

3) I've connected an MP3 straight to power amp channel and loudness (setting powe amp volume at
Max) is like my Marshall SLP 100w head at volume 1,5.

As I said, I've never had a Marshall power amp and I'm not sure how much loudness expect from it .

I hope these could help you to find out what could be wrong.

Thanks
 
That power amp probably just needs new tubes. Try with some fresh 12AX7s first. You´ll find that it is loud as hell when it´s running properly.
 
I've never understood the concept of W/D/W with a tube power amp, you're re-amping an already power tube distorted signal if you come out of the CAE amp switcher from a tube amp, try coming out of the preamp out on the head (if it has one). Should be the same sound. The Marshall 50/50 is LOUD as hell when healthy.
 
I use The cae amp Switcher because I run four tube amps head. That unit allow me to change between heads and sharing fx signal (coming out from line out to feed fx units).

Anyway, my amps doesn't have line out itself, only my
Mesa Mark III has.

I'll try with some 12ax7 tubes that I have. If no changes I'll try with some el34 to see if there is a change.

Thanks a lot guys!!
 
I've changed pre and power tubes and it's the same.

I have connected my iPhone to the power amp and turning my phone volume all the way up it sound loud as hell.

I think the problem could be that anyhow the CAE amp switcher is not feeding enough it.

What do you think?

Maybe to add a booster to feed the wet side??

Any idea will be helpful!!

Thanks
 
Well, it doesn´t make any sense that the Marshall amp should behave any differently from the Boogie you had there before. If the CAE worked with the Boogie it should work with the Marshall. Hook up one of the FX units and monitor the input levels, if the CAE is lighting it up like a christmas tree it´s fine.
 
you changed out amp switchers and all 3 did the same thing-low output to power amp,

which didn't happen when you used a boogie power amp, which means the switchers are OK and the marshall power amp is in question.

but you plugged an iphone into the marshall power amp and it produced the desired volume which verified the amp works.

maybe the cables you normally use from switcher to power amp are bad, or the marshall input jacks/output jacks need servicing, or there is something else wrong with the marshall.

agree with dave also---if you can verify signal from switcher is solid by plugging switcher line level output into one of your effects devices and see the input meters registering, then switcher is good.

and i assume ultimately when the rig is configured properly,

you are splitting your line out from the amp switcher somehow to feed your effects, and then fx outputs are feeding the mixer, which then feeds your wet power amp/cabs.
 
mentoneman":nnfmnxtx said:
you changed out amp switchers and all 3 did the same thing-low output to power amp,

which didn't happen when you used a boogie power amp, which means the switchers are OK and the marshall power amp is in question.

but you plugged an iphone into the marshall power amp and it produced the desired volume which verified the amp works.

maybe the cables you normally use from switcher to power amp are bad, or the marshall input jacks/output jacks need servicing, or there is something else wrong with the marshall.

agree with dave also---if you can verify signal from switcher is solid by plugging switcher line level output into one of your effects devices and see the input meters registering, then switcher is good.

and i assume ultimately when the rig is configured properly,

you are splitting your line out from the amp switcher somehow to feed your effects, and then fx outputs are feeding the mixer, which then feeds your wet power amp/cabs.
Click to expand...

Willing to bet it's his gain structure from the global outputs vs mix levels-- in the outboard gear
 
Was your 2:90 set to line input or instrument input? If it was set to instrument input, that will explain everything.
 
I have made the following test: guitar straight to Marshall amp head. It's fx loop send straight to Marshall power amp and it works great, loud as hell (in both channels)

I'll recheck if the cables that I used from amp selector to power amp are in good conditions. That would explain the signal loss in the three units.

You've misunderstood about Mesa or I didn't express in the right way, I get good line out signal from it line out jack to power amp.

With 2:90 I used to set the back switch to "instrument" because "line" was not loud enough.

I had mailed Bradshaw but I don't expect him to reply because he never did before when I did in the past.
 
I'm not sure if you're saying I misunderstood your connections.... you just said that setting the 2:90 to line is too quiet for you, and you set it to instrument to raise the volume. Setting that switch to instrument makes the amp more sensitive to any input signal. The Marshall is expecting a line level only, with no switch for instrument input or line input.
 
If i conenct guitar --> amp switcher (I have in & out head and dry cab connected) --> amp switcher line out to tc2290 --> power amp.

At a rehearsal head amp volume, CAE amp switcher knob at max and tc2290 input max I get only 2 green lights connected (using 1/4" delay input).

It seems that's the amp switcher that is not feeding the delay
 
And if all else fails,

Plug a strat into a marshall and burn the sky

 
adrianher":35etafo2 said:
Lol!! Sometimes I wanna do just what you say!!
Click to expand...

Aloha my friend,

Try taking some Electronic contact cleaner and cleaning the jacks on the amp selector (ALL of them), the loops in the switcher, and the inputs of the Line mixer, outputs from the line mixer going to the power amp inputs, as well as the power amp inputs. Wiggle the line out cable/jacks and see if there's an issue there at the amp selector, and the inputs to the switcher from the line out of the amp selector.

You might try bypassing fx and see if you can get the signal level right going straight from the Line out of the amp selector to the power amp--If YES, then take the line mixer and take the L/R outputs from the 2290 directly to the power amp and see if the levels are ok. On mine, the mix 1 and mix 2 knobs are set at 12 o'clock, and the nLine level controls on the amp selector vary depending on how loud I have the amps set. The Mix 2 knob is the Final output volume control, before the power amp.

Hope all has been going well.
 
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