sombersoul
New member
So, here I am, lusting for a Bogner amp. I've been interested for a few years now but when I had the money to go higher end, I favoured Diezel due to better availability and service in Europe. However, I admit I've always felt a certain attraction to the Bogners. I've never played one (again, availability) but I've been researching them for a long time. From reading thousands of posts and watching YouTube clips I have some sort of understanding of the basic differences in tone and feel between the amps of these two companies. Something inside of me tells me that the supposedly more organic and also rawer tone of the Bogners would suit my tastes more. I realize that for many people it's an either/or question when it comes to Diezel/Bogner. For myself I need to find out whether I'm a Diezel or Bogner guy or actually in-between. 
Anyway, I come here to tap into the knowledge and experience of Bogner users in order to become clear on which model I should opt for.
I'm mostly interested in Shivas and Überschalls. Two years ago I made a choice between the Diezel Einstein and the Bogner Shiva. The presumed sexiness of the latter has never left my mind since. Right now, I'm playing a Diezel Schmidt - a great amp in its own right, of course!
Over the years I found out that all I really want is a superb 2-channel-switcher. I've had various small and big amps over the years, with few functions or many functions. The truth is that I need a good to great clean channel and a massive gain channel that works well for both rhythm and lead. The fewer buttons, the better (yes, I was socialized with the 6505). I really feel encumbered by too many options, but that's just me. This is the reason why I have, after long and painful considerations, excluded amps like the Herbert or VH-4 from any purchase in the near future. I really need to try a different flavour for better orientation.
At the moment, I'm favouring the Überschall. I admit I judge amps mostly by their gain channel. If it is not to my tastes, the amp will sooner or later go. Also, after some more thinking, I've concluded I really need the option of a high-gain distortion for our music (which the Schmidt doesn't deliver, since it's not what it was made for). The thing is that I really don't want to go for a multi-amp setup. Simplicity is the key to my personal enjoyment while playing. A few pedals and that's it.
Überschall/Twin Jet:
Which model to get? I found one Rev Blue available from a German online store. Other than that, most stores seem to have the Twin Jet these days. Is the Rev Blue still manufactured, by the way?
I said I needed a good clean channel. Opinions on the Rev Blue's clean channel differ. How usable is it really? Does it have lots of headroom or does it break up early? I'm going into my amps with Duncan Distortions/Duncan Customs in the bridge and Pearly Gates in the neck (on various guitars) plus a slight clean boost provided by the ISP Decimator.
One big plus seems to be the fact that the clean channel was made for pedals. I have a Big Muff and a Maxon808 on my board at the moment.
How about the semi-clean channel on the Twin Jet? This amp seems more readily available at the moment but I fear that I would never get a clean tone out of it (since my setup also drives the input a bit harder) and I'm not sure I could do without proper cleans. So, how much does the channel clean up?
Another caveat may be the KT88 tubes. From all I've read about them (and also the fact that many users seem to prefer the EL34 mod), I got the feeling that they would not meet my tastes but who knows. Of course, I could get a TJ and mod it. But really, I don't want to do this myself (and there are no competent amp techs in my area that I know of, beside the fact that I don't want to immediately tamper with a newly bought amp). Changing tubes and setting bias is fine, though.
These considerations have made me gravitate towards the Rev Blue Überschall with EL34s.
Shiva:
I'm really tempted to get this amp. How about the 20th Anniversary edition with KT88 tubes? Is it a similar situation as with the TJ? It seems that people generally prefer EL34s in Bogners. Anyway, getting the original Shiva now would probably defeat my purpose of obtaining an all-out high gain channel. I see it more as an alternative to the Schmidt but I might be wrong. I read that the 20th Anniversary model delivers more of a modern distortion sound with more gain if required, so I'm undecided here.
A possible problem that may exist with various Bogners: F/X loop. I definitely will be using one for delays and maybe a phaser. What can I expect here? I need a solution I can live with. The effects would mostly be used with a clean sound.
In a perfect world I would get all the amps and also keep the Diezel. But that is just not possible. At this price level going for another amp usually means selling gear (even the Diezel). This is why I need to put much thought into this matter and would really love to hear opinions. Maybe someone has amps by both companies or can relate their own ponderings when faced with difficult and expensive choices.
Here's some more information: We play post-rock with three guitars, so it's not absolutely necessary for me to have the most brilliant clean sound, as one of the other amps is a Fender. But since I'm the guy with the many delays and other "atmospheric" stomp boxes, a good and usable clean sound is a must (in combination with a usable F/X loop). In a one-amp only setup, this one amp must be able to deliver crushing distortion. I sometimes boost with the Maxon808 but amp gain and texture has to be sufficient and awesome all by itself.
Realistically, my choice should now be between the Überschall Rev Blue, Twin Jet and possibly the 20th Anniversary Shiva. If Bogner amps turn out to be my long-awaited true love tonally, I can see myself getting a second amp (like Überschall first, then Shiva).
Anyway, I play through a Diezel 2x12 rearloaded, Germany-made cab. What can I expect soundwise from possible Überschall/Shiva combinations? The Bogner 212 OS has had my interest for a long time as well, so I would not be against swapping cabs either.
So, which Bogner amp should I burn my hard-earned money for? Feel free to enlightend me or correct possible misconceptions.
Anyway, I come here to tap into the knowledge and experience of Bogner users in order to become clear on which model I should opt for.
I'm mostly interested in Shivas and Überschalls. Two years ago I made a choice between the Diezel Einstein and the Bogner Shiva. The presumed sexiness of the latter has never left my mind since. Right now, I'm playing a Diezel Schmidt - a great amp in its own right, of course!
Over the years I found out that all I really want is a superb 2-channel-switcher. I've had various small and big amps over the years, with few functions or many functions. The truth is that I need a good to great clean channel and a massive gain channel that works well for both rhythm and lead. The fewer buttons, the better (yes, I was socialized with the 6505). I really feel encumbered by too many options, but that's just me. This is the reason why I have, after long and painful considerations, excluded amps like the Herbert or VH-4 from any purchase in the near future. I really need to try a different flavour for better orientation.
At the moment, I'm favouring the Überschall. I admit I judge amps mostly by their gain channel. If it is not to my tastes, the amp will sooner or later go. Also, after some more thinking, I've concluded I really need the option of a high-gain distortion for our music (which the Schmidt doesn't deliver, since it's not what it was made for). The thing is that I really don't want to go for a multi-amp setup. Simplicity is the key to my personal enjoyment while playing. A few pedals and that's it.
Überschall/Twin Jet:
Which model to get? I found one Rev Blue available from a German online store. Other than that, most stores seem to have the Twin Jet these days. Is the Rev Blue still manufactured, by the way?
I said I needed a good clean channel. Opinions on the Rev Blue's clean channel differ. How usable is it really? Does it have lots of headroom or does it break up early? I'm going into my amps with Duncan Distortions/Duncan Customs in the bridge and Pearly Gates in the neck (on various guitars) plus a slight clean boost provided by the ISP Decimator.
One big plus seems to be the fact that the clean channel was made for pedals. I have a Big Muff and a Maxon808 on my board at the moment.
How about the semi-clean channel on the Twin Jet? This amp seems more readily available at the moment but I fear that I would never get a clean tone out of it (since my setup also drives the input a bit harder) and I'm not sure I could do without proper cleans. So, how much does the channel clean up?
Another caveat may be the KT88 tubes. From all I've read about them (and also the fact that many users seem to prefer the EL34 mod), I got the feeling that they would not meet my tastes but who knows. Of course, I could get a TJ and mod it. But really, I don't want to do this myself (and there are no competent amp techs in my area that I know of, beside the fact that I don't want to immediately tamper with a newly bought amp). Changing tubes and setting bias is fine, though.
These considerations have made me gravitate towards the Rev Blue Überschall with EL34s.
Shiva:
I'm really tempted to get this amp. How about the 20th Anniversary edition with KT88 tubes? Is it a similar situation as with the TJ? It seems that people generally prefer EL34s in Bogners. Anyway, getting the original Shiva now would probably defeat my purpose of obtaining an all-out high gain channel. I see it more as an alternative to the Schmidt but I might be wrong. I read that the 20th Anniversary model delivers more of a modern distortion sound with more gain if required, so I'm undecided here.
A possible problem that may exist with various Bogners: F/X loop. I definitely will be using one for delays and maybe a phaser. What can I expect here? I need a solution I can live with. The effects would mostly be used with a clean sound.
In a perfect world I would get all the amps and also keep the Diezel. But that is just not possible. At this price level going for another amp usually means selling gear (even the Diezel). This is why I need to put much thought into this matter and would really love to hear opinions. Maybe someone has amps by both companies or can relate their own ponderings when faced with difficult and expensive choices.
Here's some more information: We play post-rock with three guitars, so it's not absolutely necessary for me to have the most brilliant clean sound, as one of the other amps is a Fender. But since I'm the guy with the many delays and other "atmospheric" stomp boxes, a good and usable clean sound is a must (in combination with a usable F/X loop). In a one-amp only setup, this one amp must be able to deliver crushing distortion. I sometimes boost with the Maxon808 but amp gain and texture has to be sufficient and awesome all by itself.
Realistically, my choice should now be between the Überschall Rev Blue, Twin Jet and possibly the 20th Anniversary Shiva. If Bogner amps turn out to be my long-awaited true love tonally, I can see myself getting a second amp (like Überschall first, then Shiva).
Anyway, I play through a Diezel 2x12 rearloaded, Germany-made cab. What can I expect soundwise from possible Überschall/Shiva combinations? The Bogner 212 OS has had my interest for a long time as well, so I would not be against swapping cabs either.
So, which Bogner amp should I burn my hard-earned money for? Feel free to enlightend me or correct possible misconceptions.
