Which Bogner for me?
- Thread starter sombersoul
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sombersoul
New member
DHL tracking informs me that the Shiva is currently sitting somewhere in Germany waiting to be shipped onwards.
sombersoul
New member
sombersoul
New member
I will take the Shiva to the rehearsal on Thursday. So far I can only say it works like a charm. Haven't tested the loop yet. And in my bedroom, I can't really turn up the volume but I can already tell this amp needs some of it to open up. Anyway, I'll be back with first impressions soon!
battenguitars
New member
You must really love your cats!!! After you've had a chance to realize that you now own the most awesome amp in existence kitty will no longer have the liberty to climb aboard. Now hurry up and let us know what you think!!! Remember, with the Shiva 20th, push all buttons and turn all knobs. Any sound you want is in there.
sombersoul
New member
Sure I love my cats! Believe it or not, my Russian Blue (the grey one) jumps on top every amp that I newly unpack all by himself as if thereby claiming it. Just look at my avatar! I didn't make him do it! 
I've only played the Shiva for an hour so far, 30 minutes today and 30 minutes yesterday. All of this took place in my wardrobe, so to speak. Needless to say, the volume knobs stayed low. But I got a first impression of the amp, I guess.
Cleans are very bold and punchy! I was surprised! With my Les Paul, I preferred the bright button pushed in. With my SG it was good either way. I find the cleans to be very direct and beautiful sounding - just like a girl that's beautiful all by herself, even without makeup. These are the cleans I wished I had back in the day when I was playing high gainers with less than ideal clean channels (like the 6505).
Effects sound good with the clean channel so far. I find the reverb to be gentle unless you use higher settings. I'll have to compare directly between the Schmidt and the Shiva here to get a clearer idea.
F/X loop works fine and sounds good with a digital delay. I have my main pedal board with lots of analogue pedals at the rehearsal space. So the loop is always on when something is connected? Well, I only just realized that the loop isn't switchable. It seems like a minor disadvantage, as I'm not able to switch in and switch out more pedals at the same time and also to control this from the front of the stage perhaps with the pedalboard sitting at the side or at the back. Anyway, this is probably not a big deal. Just needs some more dancing.
Haven't played with the clean+ channel much. I noticed the considerable increase in volume. So it's either or live, I guess, since switching in-song would seem somewhat disruptive.
The drive channel sounds like a thick, dark fluid. The Les Paul sounded better with the bright button in, the SG liked it either way. The former has a Duncan Custom, the latter a Duncan Distortion in the bridge and both have Pearly Gates in the necks.
I pushed the mids up to 2 o'clock and the tone became really thick, cutting, punchy and awesome. This is what I had always thought tube amps should sound like: warm, thick, yet with some bite, sustain for days, lead notes that spring from your fingers without any effort. Well, this is an amp that makes me sound good, hence it is very enjoyable to play! We're still talking about the original Shiva channel, Mode button disengaged.
I could totally live with an original Shiva as far as sound and gain reserves with the boost go! I tried the Shift mode. Softer feel, relaxed mids, thus perceived volume loss. I will need to spend more time here. Then I went to Drive(+) and engaged the Mode button.
More compression here, softer feel than with the Mode button disengaged, perfect for toneful and rich fluid-like leads. For rhythm playing the gain makes the sound too soft after a certain point. But before that, it's awesome. The chords ring out beautifully, stand in the room and sound homogenous. The latter is not something you get with every amp. Maybe this what people mean by "organic"? Anyway, I like it!
With the boost the drive channel seems a bit too compressed for my taste, unless the gain is backed down. But I haven't been able to turn up the master volume much (channel volume was near noon, as was boost). So some of the perceived soft fizz might go away then.
So, as I said, so far the normal drive channel is a winner all by itself, followed by the clear and bold cleans, which to me sound rather modern. This makes the Shiva quite a different amp than the Schmidt. They both do different things very well and offer different features (the Schmidt has as footswitchable loop and the reverb adjustable from the front).
I had the excursion knob at noon all the time. This sounded about right for the small room. This was through a Framus 2x12. I have the feeling there's much more lowend to be had from the Shiva. Well, the Germany-made Diezel 2x12RL waits for me at the rehearsal space. I will report back. Maybe I can even shoot some videos in the near future, if one of my bandmates agrees to assist me.
I've only played the Shiva for an hour so far, 30 minutes today and 30 minutes yesterday. All of this took place in my wardrobe, so to speak. Needless to say, the volume knobs stayed low. But I got a first impression of the amp, I guess.
Cleans are very bold and punchy! I was surprised! With my Les Paul, I preferred the bright button pushed in. With my SG it was good either way. I find the cleans to be very direct and beautiful sounding - just like a girl that's beautiful all by herself, even without makeup. These are the cleans I wished I had back in the day when I was playing high gainers with less than ideal clean channels (like the 6505).
Effects sound good with the clean channel so far. I find the reverb to be gentle unless you use higher settings. I'll have to compare directly between the Schmidt and the Shiva here to get a clearer idea.
F/X loop works fine and sounds good with a digital delay. I have my main pedal board with lots of analogue pedals at the rehearsal space. So the loop is always on when something is connected? Well, I only just realized that the loop isn't switchable. It seems like a minor disadvantage, as I'm not able to switch in and switch out more pedals at the same time and also to control this from the front of the stage perhaps with the pedalboard sitting at the side or at the back. Anyway, this is probably not a big deal. Just needs some more dancing.
Haven't played with the clean+ channel much. I noticed the considerable increase in volume. So it's either or live, I guess, since switching in-song would seem somewhat disruptive.
The drive channel sounds like a thick, dark fluid. The Les Paul sounded better with the bright button in, the SG liked it either way. The former has a Duncan Custom, the latter a Duncan Distortion in the bridge and both have Pearly Gates in the necks.
I pushed the mids up to 2 o'clock and the tone became really thick, cutting, punchy and awesome. This is what I had always thought tube amps should sound like: warm, thick, yet with some bite, sustain for days, lead notes that spring from your fingers without any effort. Well, this is an amp that makes me sound good, hence it is very enjoyable to play! We're still talking about the original Shiva channel, Mode button disengaged.
I could totally live with an original Shiva as far as sound and gain reserves with the boost go! I tried the Shift mode. Softer feel, relaxed mids, thus perceived volume loss. I will need to spend more time here. Then I went to Drive(+) and engaged the Mode button.
More compression here, softer feel than with the Mode button disengaged, perfect for toneful and rich fluid-like leads. For rhythm playing the gain makes the sound too soft after a certain point. But before that, it's awesome. The chords ring out beautifully, stand in the room and sound homogenous. The latter is not something you get with every amp. Maybe this what people mean by "organic"? Anyway, I like it!
With the boost the drive channel seems a bit too compressed for my taste, unless the gain is backed down. But I haven't been able to turn up the master volume much (channel volume was near noon, as was boost). So some of the perceived soft fizz might go away then.
So, as I said, so far the normal drive channel is a winner all by itself, followed by the clear and bold cleans, which to me sound rather modern. This makes the Shiva quite a different amp than the Schmidt. They both do different things very well and offer different features (the Schmidt has as footswitchable loop and the reverb adjustable from the front).
I had the excursion knob at noon all the time. This sounded about right for the small room. This was through a Framus 2x12. I have the feeling there's much more lowend to be had from the Shiva. Well, the Germany-made Diezel 2x12RL waits for me at the rehearsal space. I will report back. Maybe I can even shoot some videos in the near future, if one of my bandmates agrees to assist me.
glip22
Well-known member
sombersoul":2cf8wlpg said:Sure I love my cats! Believe it or not, my Russian Blue (the grey one) jumps on top every amp that I newly unpack all by himself as if thereby claiming it. Just look at my avatar! I didn't make him do it!
I've only played the Shiva for an hour so far, 30 minutes today and 30 minutes yesterday. All of this took place in my wardrobe, so to speak. Needless to say, the volume knobs stayed low. But I got a first impression of the amp, I guess.
Cleans are very bold and punchy! I was surprised! With my Les Paul, I preferred the bright button pushed in. With my SG it was good either way. I find the cleans to be very direct and beautiful sounding - just like a girl that's beautiful all by herself, even without makeup. These are the cleans I wished I had back in the day when I was playing high gainers with less than ideal clean channels (like the 6505).
Effects sound good with the clean channel so far. I find the reverb to be gentle unless you use higher settings. I'll have to compare directly between the Schmidt and the Shiva here to get a clearer idea.
F/X loop works fine and sounds good with a digital delay. I have my main pedal board with lots of analogue pedals at the rehearsal space. So the loop is always on when something is connected? Well, I only just realized that the loop isn't switchable. It seems like a minor disadvantage, as I'm not able to switch in and switch out more pedals at the same time and also to control this from the front of the stage perhaps with the pedalboard sitting at the side or at the back. Anyway, this is probably not a big deal. Just needs some more dancing.
Haven't played with the clean+ channel much. I noticed the considerable increase in volume. So it's either or live, I guess, since switching in-song would seem somewhat disruptive.
The drive channel sounds like a thick, dark fluid. The Les Paul sounded better with the bright button in, the SG liked it either way. The former has a Duncan Custom, the latter a Duncan Distortion in the bridge and both have Pearly Gates in the necks.
I pushed the mids up to 2 o'clock and the tone became really thick, cutting, punchy and awesome. This is what I had always thought tube amps should sound like: warm, thick, yet with some bite, sustain for days, lead notes that spring from your fingers without any effort. Well, this is an amp that makes me sound good, hence it is very enjoyable to play! We're still talking about the original Shiva channel, Mode button disengaged.
I could totally live with an original Shiva as far as sound and gain reserves with the boost go! I tried the Shift mode. Softer feel, relaxed mids, thus perceived volume loss. I will need to spend more time here. Then I went to Drive(+) and engaged the Mode button.
More compression here, softer feel than with the Mode button disengaged, perfect for toneful and rich fluid-like leads. For rhythm playing the gain makes the sound too soft after a certain point. But before that, it's awesome. The chords ring out beautifully, stand in the room and sound homogenous. The latter is not something you get with every amp. Maybe this what people mean by "organic"? Anyway, I like it!
With the boost the drive channel seems a bit too compressed for my taste, unless the gain is backed down. But I haven't been able to turn up the master volume much (channel volume was near noon, as was boost). So some of the perceived soft fizz might go away then.
So, as I said, so far the normal drive channel is a winner all by itself, followed by the clear and bold cleans, which to me sound rather modern. This makes the Shiva quite a different amp than the Schmidt. They both do different things very well and offer different features (the Schmidt has as footswitchable loop and the reverb adjustable from the front).
I had the excursion knob at noon all the time. This sounded about right for the small room. This was through a Framus 2x12. I have the feeling there's much more lowend to be had from the Shiva. Well, the Germany-made Diezel 2x12RL waits for me at the rehearsal space. I will report back. Maybe I can even shoot some videos in the near future, if one of my bandmates agrees to assist me.
sombersoul
New member
Haha, glad you people like my cats (and cats in general)!
So, after tonight's rehearsal and especially after listening to a Zoom H4 recording of me testing the amp beforehand I'm starting to think that this is the amp I should have gotten all along. I've been interested in it for some time. Anyway, here's as short as I can or will make it:
Bogner Shiva 20th Anniversary + Reverb
Diezel 2x12 RL (V30)
SG-400 Duncan Distortion / Pearly Gates
Vovox cable
The Shiva sounds big and bounces all over the room, the cleans are punchy, to my ear rather modern sounding, beautifully round and sweet. No final opinion on the reverb yet. The boost adds much volume. It also adds even more body and punch to the clean sound and it has more give. Nice for long-sustaining single clean notes. Great for my style of music!
The Drive channel has TONE. Very warm and organic, darkish but cutting (some more mids and treble + a little boosted presence wake the amp up!), tight enough but also loose enough to sound big. The boost function adds more gain and thus compression and gets into "higher" territory. Not bad at all and certainly plenty of tone to play around with for days.
The Mode button adds even more gain and focuses the sound a little. Generally, the amp becomes softer with more gain, so I think a little less is a little more here, but always stays tight. I liked the mids boosted and the treble a little bit so. Bright button in. In the rehearsal room things can sometimes sound less than ideal. What I heard on the recording was just perfect! Luscious, long-sustaining tones that are full-sounding and harmonic. In the room they actually feel wall-like and naturally sound so as well. This is I think what most guitarists are after. You "feel" the amp.
By now you know I really like the Shiva. But there are a few more words to go...
So, on the recording everything sounded just awesome and perfect with V30s. Next time I will hopefully make full band recordings. But today I really stood out in the mix. Our bassist wasn't present. We were three guitars and one (metal) drummer, though.
Today I found that the Shiva can get pretty heavy. Good enough for me anyway! The several gain options make it versatile. The Shift mode gives some nice sounds too but I need to spend more time with it.
All in all, I can say that from my subjective point of view the Shiva absolutely fits my playing style (I enjoy the sag you get with the higher gain and the lead tones are lusciously flowing from all across the fretboard). It just makes me sound good. And that's the most important thing!!!
Finally, I should say it works perfectly. Also perfectly silent on all fronts and exits. This is not so on every other amp. The loop is totally silent and from what I could tell very transparent. I had no distortion issues whatsoever (Channel Volume 12 or a little above).
In the room I thought the pedals didn't sound so good through the clean channel. I tried a Little Big Muff and a Maxon OD808. I thought they sounded rather thin and boosting the drive channel also seemed futile. It sounded awesome all by itself and what the actual onboard boost does is focusing the sound a little along with adding gain. However, the recording convinced me that the pedals did sound great actually, so no worries there. The Carbon Copy in the loop sounded smooth as butter. Haven't tried the EHX Nano Stone or the Freezer yet.
The Shiva is definitely a keeper! I will be back with some more questions.
Thanks for advising me and ultimately convincing me to get this amazing amp!
So, after tonight's rehearsal and especially after listening to a Zoom H4 recording of me testing the amp beforehand I'm starting to think that this is the amp I should have gotten all along. I've been interested in it for some time. Anyway, here's as short as I can or will make it:
Bogner Shiva 20th Anniversary + Reverb
Diezel 2x12 RL (V30)
SG-400 Duncan Distortion / Pearly Gates
Vovox cable
The Shiva sounds big and bounces all over the room, the cleans are punchy, to my ear rather modern sounding, beautifully round and sweet. No final opinion on the reverb yet. The boost adds much volume. It also adds even more body and punch to the clean sound and it has more give. Nice for long-sustaining single clean notes. Great for my style of music!
The Drive channel has TONE. Very warm and organic, darkish but cutting (some more mids and treble + a little boosted presence wake the amp up!), tight enough but also loose enough to sound big. The boost function adds more gain and thus compression and gets into "higher" territory. Not bad at all and certainly plenty of tone to play around with for days.
The Mode button adds even more gain and focuses the sound a little. Generally, the amp becomes softer with more gain, so I think a little less is a little more here, but always stays tight. I liked the mids boosted and the treble a little bit so. Bright button in. In the rehearsal room things can sometimes sound less than ideal. What I heard on the recording was just perfect! Luscious, long-sustaining tones that are full-sounding and harmonic. In the room they actually feel wall-like and naturally sound so as well. This is I think what most guitarists are after. You "feel" the amp.
By now you know I really like the Shiva. But there are a few more words to go...
So, on the recording everything sounded just awesome and perfect with V30s. Next time I will hopefully make full band recordings. But today I really stood out in the mix. Our bassist wasn't present. We were three guitars and one (metal) drummer, though.
Today I found that the Shiva can get pretty heavy. Good enough for me anyway! The several gain options make it versatile. The Shift mode gives some nice sounds too but I need to spend more time with it.
All in all, I can say that from my subjective point of view the Shiva absolutely fits my playing style (I enjoy the sag you get with the higher gain and the lead tones are lusciously flowing from all across the fretboard). It just makes me sound good. And that's the most important thing!!!
Finally, I should say it works perfectly. Also perfectly silent on all fronts and exits. This is not so on every other amp. The loop is totally silent and from what I could tell very transparent. I had no distortion issues whatsoever (Channel Volume 12 or a little above).
In the room I thought the pedals didn't sound so good through the clean channel. I tried a Little Big Muff and a Maxon OD808. I thought they sounded rather thin and boosting the drive channel also seemed futile. It sounded awesome all by itself and what the actual onboard boost does is focusing the sound a little along with adding gain. However, the recording convinced me that the pedals did sound great actually, so no worries there. The Carbon Copy in the loop sounded smooth as butter. Haven't tried the EHX Nano Stone or the Freezer yet.
The Shiva is definitely a keeper! I will be back with some more questions.
Thanks for advising me and ultimately convincing me to get this amazing amp!
Ventura
Well-known member
glip22":3hj1xy5r said:My Wife always said cats are just like Woman. If you cannot understand a cat you do not comprehend Woman.Ventura":3hj1xy5r said:DAMN those are cute lil' kitties man!!sombersoul":3hj1xy5r said:
I love cats
V.
She may be on to something here...
V.
glip22
Well-known member
It was a prerequisite.Ventura":2oo91rox said:glip22":2oo91rox said:My Wife always said cats are just like Woman. If you cannot understand a cat you do not comprehend Woman.Ventura":2oo91rox said:DAMN those are cute lil' kitties man!!sombersoul":2oo91rox said:
I love cats
V.
She may be on to something here...
V.
sombersoul
New member
Ventura":1a2yufps said:I just ordered a full complement of Vovox leads and speaker cables, FWIW. Pearly Gates, m'man...no cheap thrills there, eh??
Well, I've come a long way and learnt many a hard lesson. I usually don't go for lower end stuff, simply because I know that 9 out of 10 times I won't be satisfied. I'm not saying this to brag - this is actually sad!
I only have a guitar cable from VoVox. Replacing all the cables is not in my budget right now. But I can already tell the difference between using the VoVox and a standard cable. Anyway, there's still some slight loss in my chain (I've got eight pedals plus connections after all), and nothing sounds as direct, detailed and punchy as Guitar > high quality cable > Shiva. And for many situations, this is all one needs. OK, so I "need" some more effects as well. Again, I find the Shiva works very well with the effects I've tried so far. Dead silent in the loop!
I'm thinking of putting an MXR Micro Amp somewhere in my chain to restore some signal strength. It usually brings out more highs and if the dial is turned up a bit it can drive the amp more ever so slightly.
Ah, and the Shiva has lowend!!! Excursion at the noon position is just right for rehearsal volume to make the notes sound big. Above it becomes too bloated, below it thins out and tightens up the sound (actually not in a bad way!).
I can see that there are MANY different tones in this amp, just by turning a few knobs and pushing a few buttons. Great!
OK, here a few more questions:
This is my first amp with KT88s. I like it very much so far, and I see no immediate reason to change tubes. But this is only after one proper rehearsal, so I'll give it some time, and I also need to get to know the sound of the amp much better before I start to modify it (if necessary at all). Anyway, what exactly would be the difference in sound between the 6550s and KT88s in the Shiva?
I'm wondering whether I should get the Bogner OS 212. It is a different kind of cab than the German-made Diezel 2x12 after all. I have no clear understanding what the differences in sound between these two cabs could be. For years I've been reading about how much of an industry standard the Bogner cab apparently is, often considered THE 2x12 OS cab on the market. Of course, the Diezel (being even more expensive!) is a great cab in its own right, and I have no complaints about it with the Shiva at all. I like things to match, though.
So, if anyone can elaborate on the Bogner OS, esp. with the Shiva head, and perhaps even compared to the Diezel cab, that would be great!
Final question: Since I find the Shiva already very heavy-sounding, full and throaty, not shreddy but authoritative...how much heavier is the Twin Jet??? Or what does it do differently compared to the Shiva?
Ventura
Well-known member
Cool, it's typically mine for anyone I meet... "So, hey, you like cats? No? Hmmmm, well, you've got issues - have a nice life, see ya."glip22":jbbusdkq said:It was a prerequisite.Ventura":jbbusdkq said:glip22":jbbusdkq said:My Wife always said cats are just like Woman. If you cannot understand a cat you do not comprehend Woman.Ventura":jbbusdkq said:DAMN those are cute lil' kitties man!!sombersoul":jbbusdkq said:
I love cats
V.
She may be on to something here...
V.
V.
Ventura
Well-known member
There's a BIG difference. They're 2 different amps for a reason. Seriously. Hard to explain but the Uber will find its place in metal history - it's like a razor in the high-gain department, gobs of low end, and can be made to sound hi-fi if desired while still retaining a lot of color and warmth - but still SUPER high-gain and sizzlin'. The Sheevs to me, and from what I've heard and researched, is just jucier, chewier, and can be made dry - but plays well in the modded Marshall tone departments and has a sweet clean to it.sombersoul":1es2x26z said:
Only my 2 cents, not to be taken as gospel. I had several iterations of the Uber and the TJ, while being my favourite, got swapped eventually because I only wanted to shred and go hard on it. I didn't inspire a lot of other playing skills except for serious hardcore, YMMV.
V.
glip22
Well-known member
Now I know why I like youVentura":26m4uqq1 said:Cool, it's typically mine for anyone I meet... "So, hey, you like cats? No? Hmmmm, well, you've got issues - have a nice life, see ya."glip22":26m4uqq1 said:It was a prerequisite.Ventura":26m4uqq1 said:glip22":26m4uqq1 said:My Wife always said cats are just like Woman. If you cannot understand a cat you do not comprehend Woman.Ventura":26m4uqq1 said:DAMN those are cute lil' kitties man!!sombersoul":26m4uqq1 said:
I love cats
V.
She may be on to something here...
V.
V.