Who wants to listen to a Wizard and shit on my tone?

[itsgoodnow]

Just got this amp (Wizard W800) from @Smashedguitaris⸸ and am learning my way around it

Honestly it’s so outta my usual compressed gainy amp playground, I’m struggling with it (I know I know first world problems)

Spent some hours this evening messing with IRs and landed on a Mesa and a George Lynch cab (dual tracked)

Ibanez j custom tuned half step down into the high input of the W800 into a Torpedo Captor X…let the shenanigans commence

Nicely done. it does sound like a Wizard, but, oddly, in my experience, I think Wizards are hard to accurately capture in a recording vs in the room. It really is the only amp I've ever had like that and I have done a lot of tracking.

 

[overthemountain]

Sounds great!

 

[Deleted member 16554]

Nicely done. it does sound like a Wizard, but, oddly, in my experience, I think Wizards are hard to accurately capture in a recording vs in the room. It really is the only amp I've ever had like that and I have done a lot of tracking.

Would you consider sharing how you like to record them? Amp settings to DAW settings if it’s not too much trouble? I’m very much in the experimentation phase and trying to figure out how others are using them. Also given all the Hermansson amps you have, any chance of a sonic comparison?

 

[RaceU4her]

I felt similar to you. I was like, Why does my wizard not sound like a marshall? I had @nzsteve over and he played through it, and he was using c and d chords on my les paul studio, and i would have sworn i was listening to a jcm 800. But there is a classifeds thread right now where a guy has a rock standard that sounds pretty marshally with maybe more low end or maybe that is how he has it dialed. Take a listen and let me know if you still feel the same. https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/threads/wizard-rock-standard-w-clips.269656/

i thought you said before yours sounded like a angry modded marshall, now youre saying it dosent sound like a marshall no, this clip dosent sound like a marshall to me, it sounds like all the other wizard clips i posted with the same flatter and drier thing going on, im not listening to this and thinking its a jcm800

 

[braintheory]

There are a lot of great sounding amps that will sound small when played back to back with one. I cant speak to recording. I am amateur at best and dont think i showcase the best of the amp. But in person, they are quite impressive.

Agreed (although I don't really think anymore of most of such amps being great lol). I think their openness helps them sound big and punchy, making a lot of other amps lack comparatively. I don't know recording well either, so I don't know why it doesn't translate as well. I have quite a few other amps now that sound even bigger/more room filling, but my MTL is a big sounding amp for sure and more clarity than most

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Wizard's IME are dry and also flat/bland in the midrange vs Marshall's. Not their forte. They excel in other areas. I think the qualities that give them such wow factor in person (the hard hitting punch, crisp definition, clarity, openness) maybe just don't translate as much in a recording context, but the less good qualities about it do (like what you described). It didn't make the cut either when I brought it along with my other amps for my friend's re-amp, but in person I and everyone I showed it too so far found it very impressive (one of my friend's bought one shortly after trying mine lol). If you're only into recording, maybe it might not be needed, but I don't know enough about recording to really say. I haven't heard any Wizard clips that blew me away either, but still kept my MTL for 6 years now. It's a monster in person

Definitely in the eye of the beholder because I feel the same about the Marshalls I've owned...I don't hear anything special in the mids like so many gush over. The 2555x I owned actually had the most memorable midrange of the Marshalls I've owned. The late 70s JMP 2204s were very bland sounding to me and the 2203x Gower was cool sounding, but heavily modded so not really the same amp it once was.

 

[itsgoodnow]

Tonally, I consider Wizards to be raw and open--but I will say I think there is some low end compression I hear to keep the signal more cohesive. It is a bit difficult to articulate but specifically in the bass frequency it can make the whole sound very "even." not a bad thing but I almost wonder if this is why they can be difficult to capture accurately. I just recently got another Wizard (my 4th), and it sounds great. Definitely needs a boost in front. The Hermanssons I have are more aggressive with more apparent bass available. The 3 stage marshall I have is a Marshall to the extent it is in a Marshall headshell--it really does not sound like a Marshall. It is a giant wall of sound with good articulation. The Wizards sound much more glued together sonically.

As for tracking you kind of have 2 options and 1 is a lot easier and cheaper than another. Run the Wizard into an IR box, grab an IR you like and tweak to taste. When I would do live tracking I always kept a cab in a separate room, would do an SM57 and either an MD421 or an E906 on it and balance to taste. With a wizard I might consider a ribbon mic like a royer 121 or a condenser of choice to get a little more body in it and then use the 57 to basically get your mid/highs in. Those would go into Manley TNT preamps (formerly I used API and Neve, either is fine, but API generally imparts more mid emphasis and the neve is sweeter with more low end--my ear here). Run it into your interface throw each input on a separate track. The rest of the advice is really dependent on what plugins you have but control your dynamics with a compressor (1176, LA2A, etc), and control your eq. Usually you will shelf a lot of super extreme high and low end data and tweak the mids to taste (and realistically if you're doing a full mix to sit appropriately with drums/bass/vocals). I generally do a rough mix after drums and bass, but before vocals, then go back and carve up after I get the vocal track in there. There are other tricks in there too and, again, a lot of it depends on your plugins or hardware units available. I switched to Manleys a while ago because I think they impart less of an EQ on the signal and sound big. They also have great DI sections for bass with a lot of tonal options.

The IR is significantly easier because you don't need to do all that crap and buy a lot of gear and have a separate live and mix room. Remember an IR is a snapshot of an amp in a particular way (which is why you can download 20 v30 mesa IRs and they all sound different) and there is likely a signal path (in addition to mic choices/placement variances) which will affect the tone. My advice is get rid of variables, start with an IR that gets you close (trying to avoid fight your recorded track and avoiding fixing it in post is half the battle).

 

[braintheory]

Definitely in the eye of the beholder because I feel the same about the Marshalls I've owned...I don't hear anything special in the mids like so many gush over. The 2555x I owned actually had the most memorable midrange of the Marshalls I've owned. The late 70s JMP 2204s were very bland sounding to me and the 2203x Gower was cool sounding, but heavily modded so not really the same amp it once was.

I guess so. The jubilee's I actually found too smooth for my taste and more bland in mids vs the earlier Marshall's, but still more character in them vs Wizard's to my ears. The 2 Gower's I had I honestly thought were a little overrated. Kinda like the Cameron mods I've had, but not as good, but even all the 5 or 6 Cam mods I had came off distant sounding vs a good stock vintage Marshall boosted (or even not boosted) partly I believe from the midrange difference and all that compression in the modded ones. I actually think this one amp I've got called the Reason SM50 (which is my least expensive amp) has some of the best midrange of the amps I've got, but it's admittedly similarly compressed and processed sounding to many Engl's despite being more of a rock than metal amp

My opinions though are all based on side by side comparisons. I don't talk about gear that I didn't compare to other stuff. I've compared my Wizard to my 1972 Superlead 100, 1967 Tremolo 50, 1979 JMP2203, and 1981 Hiwatt DR103. It pretty much sat right in the middle of the Hiwatt and Marshall's in the midrange hollowness spectrum

 

[heavision]

It is a particularly angry specimen and the harder you smack your strings the angrier it gets

Exactly what a great amp should do imo.

 

[braintheory]

i thought you said before yours sounded like a angry modded marshall, now youre saying it dosent sound like a marshall no, this clip dosent sound like a marshall to me, it sounds like all the other wizard clips i posted with the same flatter and drier thing going on, im not listening to this and thinking its a jcm800

Imagine an amp in between the voicing of a Marshall and Hiwatt that's been modded for more gain and that's I think basically the wizard sound. I think it's maybe a marketing mistake that they get compared to Marshall's. Better imo to just view them as their own thing. They are dry and flat in the mids vs a lot of amps and maybe that can be a deal breaker for some guy's taste. I don't like that aspect either, but their strengths are enough for it to be a 6 year keeper for me

I think also for some styles the flat and dry quality can be less noticeable than for other styles. One of my friends (who bought one after trying mine) is a tech death guy that plays in lower tunings and his stuff sounded amazing when he played my Wizard. I actually liked him better on it than on my other amps except maybe my early Recto's. He may still have sounded best on those boosted

 

[Smashedguitaris⸸]

i thought you said before yours sounded like a angry modded marshall, now youre saying it dosent sound like a marshall no, this clip dosent sound like a marshall to me, it sounds like all the other wizard clips i posted with the same flatter and drier thing going on, im not listening to this and thinking its a jcm800

To me, i separate modded marshall and marshall sound. I had a monomyth that literally was a modded marshall and sounded nothing like a marshall. But you could tell it was in the vein just like with the wizard, though wizard far closer. As far as angry, i dont know how that doesnt translate, but that is fine. I definitely dont hear a flat eq. That is funny to me. I think because i have heard it in person, maybe we are hearing a different recording.

I am definitely into a drier sound so i understand that. And i havent played a lot of marshalls in person. Maybe 2 or 3. So my experience on the sound is more songs with them and clips also, so when i compare something to them, probably not accurate. I have a sound of what i want a marshall to sound like. That is probably different from the reality. But i also thought the silver jubilee was an amazing sounding amp.

 

[Dino 939]

Agreed (although I don't really think anymore of most of such amps being great lol). I think their openness helps them sound big and punchy, making a lot of other amps lack comparatively. I don't know recording well either, so I don't know why it doesn't translate as well. I have quite a few other amps now that sound even bigger/more room filling, but my MTL is a big sounding amp for sure and more clarity than most

Sounds like you need to play a Lenz.
I bet that will change your hypothesis.

Just play the fucking amp, you won’t reach for a comparison in your mind,
You’ll reach for an idea because you’re so inspired to keep jammin’.
Lenz amps will have you start creating instead of comparing.

 

[Dino 939]

The Wolf has entered the conversation.

The Archilles Heal here is you have not owned or played a Marshall Jcm800.
You skipped a critical step.
What do you compare the Wizard to if
you’ve never played the amp it’s designed after?

The JCM800 is the R-N-R Workhouse of an amplifier.
Loud, kinda’ bold, big mids, Billy Duffy…

For me,
Wizards are not Metal amps, nope.
The most MUSICAL of the f’n herds of Wizards I’ve owned was a Modern Classic 2,
paired with a Wizard 4X12 with
Creamback 75’s & Creamback 65’s wired
up in an X pattern.

In the end??

It’s not the size of the wand,
-it’s the Wizard behind it.

 

[Smashedguitaris⸸]

The Wolf has entered the conversation.

The Archilles Heal here is you have not owned or played a Marshall Jcm800.
You skipped a critical step.
What do you compare the Wizard to if
you’ve never played the amp it’s designed after?

The JCM800 is the R-N-R Workhouse of an amplifier.
Loud, kinda’ bold, big mids, Billy Duffy…

For me,
Wizards are not Metal amps, nope.
The most MUSICAL of the f’n herds of Wizards I’ve owned was a Modern Classic 2,
paired with a Wizard 4X12 with
Creamback 75’s & Creamback 65’s wired
up in an X pattern.

In the end??

It’s not the size of the wand,
-it’s the Wizard behind it.

I almost went the jcm 800 route. It is hard though. They were so cheap and then after covid to have them doubled in price..not worth it. Especially since they are only half the game. Unboosted they are worthless for a guy like me. All that said, i would totally dig playing some jcms and jmps.

 

[braintheory]

Sounds like you need to play a Lenz.
I bet that will change your hypothesis.

Just play the fucking amp, you won’t reach for a comparison in your mind,
You’ll reach for an idea because you’re so inspired to keep jammin’.
Lenz amps will have you start creating instead of comparing.

Every piece of gear needs comparison as part of the verification process lol, even the one Dumble I tried (that’s how I know how good it really was). No amp is above that. This bypasses the silly exaggerations and honeymoon phases that many gearheads go through. The playing/creativity part or practicing is an independent session from my gear testing ones

 

[Smashedguitaris⸸]

Every piece of gear needs comparison as part of the verification process lol, even the one Dumble I tried (that’s how I know how good it really was). No amp is above that. This bypasses the silly exaggerations and honeymoon phases that many gearheads go through. The playing/creativity part or practicing is an independent session from my gear testing ones

I am on team lets get @braintheory to buy a lenz. That guy is making some of the best amps as far as clips go for me. I really think his ear is perfect and thats why he is so good at amps

 

[Philhouse]

Play an amp. Using clips alone is just kidding yourself.

 

[mooncobra]

I still have my trusty old Ultra-lead.
I would say they are similar to the Wizards I have played (MCii, w800 which I own) in their tightness and immediacy for sure and also compression levels. There are similarities, but for me, the Wizards are the better amp: while relatively simple, they are voiced so well and the controls make them super versatile; there are multiple "sweet spots" on a Wizard I find. Anyway, if you get a chance, check out a Fryette. They used to be one of the best boutique high gain bargains out there....

Vht are tight, cool amps

 

[braintheory]

I am on team lets get @braintheory to buy a lenz. That guy is making some of the best amps as far as clips go for me. I really think his ear is perfect and thats why he is so good at amps

I’m always open minded, so if I hear a clip that blows me away or someone that I trust who’s tried most of what I have also loves it I’d definitely be tempted

I don’t think anyone’s ear or piece of gear is perfect fwiw, we’re all human, not even the one Dumble ODS I tried. While it still had by far the best quality of tone I’ve heard in a musical instrument so far (it was literally like 4 or 5D lol) the voicing still had little things here and there that I’d consider not perfect. No gear does it all IME. This also makes things more interesting

 

[Smashedguitaris⸸]

I’m always open minded, so if I hear a clip that blows me away or someone that I trust who’s tried most of what I have also loves it I’d definitely be tempted

I don’t think anyone’s ear or piece of gear is perfect fwiw, we’re all human, not even the one Dumble ODS I tried. While it still had by far the best quality of tone I’ve heard in a musical instrument so far (it was literally like 4 or 5D lol) the voicing still had little things here and there that I’d consider not perfect. No gear does it all IME. This also makes things more interesting

Yeah. i am not saying eddie can cure cancer. I just think way more than half the battle is making decisions on what sounds better. What he decides sounds good, I think sounds fucking amazing. And I am not completely sold his amps don't cure cancer..