Who wants to solve the mystery of the out-of-phase pickups?

[srinivassa]

I got wild with the repup of my Hamer HSS guitar. I put a telecaster neck pickup in the neck, a SD twang banger in the middle, and a SD Phat Cat P90 in the bridge.

It sounds phenominal, but it has phase issues revolving around the tele neck.

Does anybody know what this is? The twang banger is supposed to work and play well with Fender pickups. Even if I didn't have my Rerversed Winding/Reverse Poles in the middle, I should get hum, but no phase problems correct?

The position beween the middle and neck sounds like it is going through a phase shifter or a wah. And it's about 1/2 volume of the other pickups.

Does anyone know a way to beat a phase problem without just ripping out the neck pickup and putting in a SD? It seems in theory I could just reverse all the magnets, but I'd probably just ruin my pickup.

Thanks.

 

[glpg80]

phase and polarity are commonly interchanged but they are different.

technically speaking you want the pickups in phase and also in the same polarity - polarity deals with wiring, and phase deals with physical location in comparison to the other source you are comparing it to (can be speakers, the tailpiece/bridge, and/or a pickup). old peter green trick was to have the neck pickup wired out of polarity and out of phase of the bridge pickup in the middle position giving you frequency reinforcement on some harmonics/notes and phase cancellation on others/muffled. this gave you a qwacky character.

in your case, reverse the neck pickup wiring or the middle pickup wiring, but not both. idealy, you want to have the same phase as the bridge pickup so i would figure out which one is out of polarity and switch it only.

another trick worth mentioning here is by physically turning the neck or bridge pickups, you move pole peaces in and out of phase in humbuckers in reference to the harmonic locations on the strings. for pickups that use coil tapping and different construction methods it is a useful tool in tone changing things around. in singles it makes no difference unless you move the pickup closer or farther away from the bridge.

FWIW, i prefer my neck pickups out of polarity with my bridge. old wolfgang trick is to install the neck pickup backwards. i am sure many people have seen the neck pickups zebra patterns backwards on wolfgangs.

 

[srinivassa]

Hmm... I had tried reversing the neck pickup wiring, thinking this might do the trick. What I got was a dead pickup. I just figured that I was running hot to ground and bye bye signal, so I abandoned that idea.

And yeah, this does confuse me. Phase and polarity always confused me, and I am trained as an electrical engineer. Something about the right hand rule just never sat right with me. That's why I got far away from fields and went into digital and computer electronics.

I am going to try reversing the neck pickup again. I am sure it is the one out of phase. This time I will just have to hold my breath and pray to the demon of current. If not, it does sound kind kewl out of phase. I just wish the power wasn't so low.

 

[Giga]

Maybe switch the phase of both the middel and the bridge pup ?

Giga

 

[glpg80]

Hmm... I had tried reversing the neck pickup wiring, thinking this might do the trick. What I got was a dead pickup. I just figured that I was running hot to ground and bye bye signal, so I abandoned that idea.

And yeah, this does confuse me. Phase and polarity always confused me, and I am trained as an electrical engineer. Something about the right hand rule just never sat right with me. That's why I got far away from fields and went into digital and computer electronics.

I am going to try reversing the neck pickup again. I am sure it is the one out of phase. This time I will just have to hold my breath and pray to the demon of current. If not, it does sound kind kewl out of phase. I just wish the power wasn't so low.

take the hot of the pickup and solder it on the opposite side of the volume pot.

now its polarity is out of phase with the bridge pickup when both pickups are selected - assuming both pickups are "in phase" to begin with.

the other way to do it is to flip the magnet inside the pickup - its what peter green did.

 

[Giga]

Take the hot of the pickup and solder it on the opposite side of the volume pot.

now its polarity is out of phase with the bridge pickup when both pickups are selected -

Uh, nope. But the pot will work backwards....

Giga

 

[glpg80]

Take the hot of the pickup and solder it on the opposite side of the volume pot.

now its polarity is out of phase with the bridge pickup when both pickups are selected -

Uh, nope. But the pot will work backwards....

Giga

ill elaborate. you are correct - i worded it wrong. maybe this will help clear things up

there are two methods of construction with pickups - 4 conductor and 2 conductor.

if you have a two conductor humbucker with a single lead that is shielded, wiring it out of phase but in polarity will put the signal onto that pickup's ground and the pickup's ground to the whole guitar's signal path. this means that you have to insulate the shield from other parts of the guitar because now the shield is carrying your guitar tone and if it contacts anything else inside the guitar's wiring it will short out your AC signal.

if you have 4 conductors its even easier - swap the conductors and now it is out of phase but leave the ground in tact.

 

[Giga]

Take the hot of the pickup and solder it on the opposite side of the volume pot.

now its polarity is out of phase with the bridge pickup when both pickups are selected -

Uh, nope. But the pot will work backwards....

Giga

ill elaborate. you are correct - i worded it wrong. maybe this will help clear things up

there are two methods of construction with pickups - 4 conductor and 2 conductor.

if you have a two conductor humbucker with a single lead that is shielded, wiring it out of phase but in polarity will put the signal onto that pickup's ground and the pickup's ground to the whole guitar's signal path. this means that you have to insulate the shield from other parts of the guitar because now the shield is carrying your guitar tone and if it contacts anything else inside the guitar's wiring it will short out your AC signal.

if you have 4 conductors its even easier - swap the conductors and now it is out of phase but leave the ground in tact.

I knew that but thanks anyway. It was more that I was afraid the TS would get the wrong idea.

I ran into this problem once also btw where it could only be solved by reversing the magnet. It's a bit of a pain there is no norm for how to wire and lay out pickups so mixing and matching of different brands would be easier.

Giga