Who's using a wet-dry-wet setup?

[psychodave]

the A/D - D/A of your dry tone through any fx in the wet cabs is a tricky one and i have really been focusing recently at eliminating that from my effects/rig.
it becomes very apparent when you have a headphone/in ears monitoring capability while dialing in effects, just how annoying digital conversion of the analog dry tone can be. it manifests itself as a subtle phasing of your dry sound--thin and brittle--and sometimes really hard to detect.

Get a mixer like the MarkL and eliminate this issue forever. Pristine dry amp sound mixed with your 100% wet effects...

Steve

The mixer is the key part. As you already know, but mentioning it to others who may not, it also allows to mix in dry sound in the "wet" cabinets for an even more massive sound.

 

[mentoneman]

the A/D - D/A of your dry tone through any fx in the wet cabs is a tricky one and i have really been focusing recently at eliminating that from my effects/rig.
it becomes very apparent when you have a headphone/in ears monitoring capability while dialing in effects, just how annoying digital conversion of the analog dry tone can be. it manifests itself as a subtle phasing of your dry sound--thin and brittle--and sometimes really hard to detect.

Get a mixer like the MarkL and eliminate this issue forever. Pristine dry amp sound mixed with your 100% wet effects...

Steve

The mixer is the key part. As you already know, but mentioning it to others who may not, it also allows to mix in dry sound in the "wet" cabinets for an even more massive sound.

two things:

1) i have been running a mixer in my rack rig off and on for over a decade now, first a passac 8 channel unity mixer in my triaxis days and now the one built into this device:

and for an all in one 8 channel stereo mixer with additional 1x6 splitter, separate xlr balanced and 1/4 unbalanced outs with cab emulation for stage and PA, headphone monitor mix with external monitor mix input dedicated to the headphone mix device it's so handy it's ridiculous

but all mixers are not created equal sonically

i would like a quiet and quality component balanced capable mixer with input level control and metering, aux routing, eq, which a small desktop would afford you

2) "kill dry" doesn't always solve the digital dry problem in certain devices

 

[Anonymous]

the A/D - D/A of your dry tone through any fx in the wet cabs is a tricky one and i have really been focusing recently at eliminating that from my effects/rig.
it becomes very apparent when you have a headphone/in ears monitoring capability while dialing in effects, just how annoying digital conversion of the analog dry tone can be. it manifests itself as a subtle phasing of your dry sound--thin and brittle--and sometimes really hard to detect.

Get a mixer like the MarkL and eliminate this issue forever. Pristine dry amp sound mixed with your 100% wet effects...

Steve

The mixer is the key part. As you already know, but mentioning it to others who may not, it also allows to mix in dry sound in the "wet" cabinets for an even more massive sound.

two things:

1) i have been running a mixer in my rack rig off and on for over a decade now, first a passac 8 channel unity mixer in my triaxis days and now the one built into this device:

and for an all in one 8 channel stereo mixer with additional 1x6 splitter, separate xlr balanced and 1/4 unbalanced outs with cab emulation for stage and PA, headphone monitor mix with external monitor mix input dedicated to the headphone mix device it's so handy it's ridiculous

but all mixers are not created equal sonically

i would like a quiet and quality component balanced capable mixer with input level control and metering, aux routing, eq, which a small desktop would afford you

2) "kill dry" doesn't always solve the digital dry problem in certain devices

Yeah, I hear you on 1). For my purposes, the MarkL made a huge improvement to the dry sound in my "wet cabs" so I'm all good.

Can you expound on 2) though? If you aren't sending any dry sound to the mixer from your effects using "killdry" and the only dry sound is coming direct from your amp through a quality mixer, how does that not solve the digital dry problem? Are you saying that some effects unit's "killdry" function don't work properly or is it something else?

Just curious...

Steve

 

[mentoneman]

Yeah, I hear you on 1). For my purposes, the MarkL made a huge improvement to the dry sound in my "wet cabs" so I'm all good.

Can you expound on 2) though? If you aren't sending any dry sound to the mixer from your effects using "killdry" and the only dry sound is coming direct from your amp through a quality mixer, how does that not solve the digital dry problem? Are you saying that some effects unit's "killdry" function don't work properly or is it something else?

Just curious...

Steve

in your case with the 2 sde-3000s in mono running offset delays you run a nice, simple and elegant solution and probably don't have my problem if you're running the classic 250/500 split, etc. the 3000 is a quality delay.

in 2 of my rack fx, korg DL8000 and tc g-force, running stereo fx in kill dry modes, some multi-fx presets still displayed enough of a digitized dry signal within the effect that it forced me to re-evaluate each effect on a case by case basis. things like chorus, phase effects, etc, rely on the dry signal PLUS an effected signal being slightly time delayed and modulated to achieve the perceived pitch and phase changes.

so running a traditional stereo chorus effect for instance, in a wdw rig just doesn't automatically work for me nor is the effect as pronounced as if running a simpler stereo rig, in my experience. and particularly when using headphones to dial in effects. the gforce actually has mono, stereo, and 3 way presets designed for each of those types of rigs in mind.

as soon as any any dry gets digitized in the effect preset, the first thing that happens is the A/D latency which even if minuscule in time and measured in milliseconds, begins to fracture the focus of the analog dry sound and manifests itself as a brightening and thinning and blurring of tone, and that is what i was hearing and had to go in and clean up my effects one by one, even with kill dry feature engaged.

i think the only digital effect i've used that never hammered the dry tone was the tc 2290 delay. my korg dl8000 sounds like a 2290 in the effect portion but doesn't preserve the dry with the big warm headroom that the 2290 possesses.

 

[Zachman]

the A/D - D/A of your dry tone through any fx in the wet cabs is a tricky one and i have really been focusing recently at eliminating that from my effects/rig.
it becomes very apparent when you have a headphone/in ears monitoring capability while dialing in effects, just how annoying digital conversion of the analog dry tone can be. it manifests itself as a subtle phasing of your dry sound--thin and brittle--and sometimes really hard to detect.

Get a mixer like the MarkL and eliminate this issue forever. Pristine dry amp sound mixed with your 100% wet effects...

Steve

The mixer is the key part. As you already know, but mentioning it to others who may not, it also allows to mix in dry sound in the "wet" cabinets for an even more massive sound.

two things:

1) i have been running a mixer in my rack rig off and on for over a decade now, first a passac 8 channel unity mixer in my triaxis days and now the one built into this device:

and for an all in one 8 channel stereo mixer with additional 1x6 splitter, separate xlr balanced and 1/4 unbalanced outs with cab emulation for stage and PA, headphone monitor mix with external monitor mix input dedicated to the headphone mix device it's so handy it's ridiculous

but all mixers are not created equal sonically

i would like a quiet and quality component balanced capable mixer with input level control and metering, aux routing, eq, which a small desktop would afford you

2) "kill dry" doesn't always solve the digital dry problem in certain devices

Yeah, I hear you on 1). For my purposes, the MarkL made a huge improvement to the dry sound in my "wet cabs" so I'm all good.

Can you expound on 2) though? If you aren't sending any dry sound to the mixer from your effects using "killdry" and the only dry sound is coming direct from your amp through a quality mixer, how does that not solve the digital dry problem? Are you saying that some effects unit's "killdry" function don't work properly or is it something else?

Just curious...

Steve

Aloha Steve,

Long time no talk. I hope everything is going great. I think he said that to deal w/ the fact that not all devices have a kill dry function which bypasses the ad/da conversion process.

 

[psychodave]

I use an RJM mini mix. Works great, sounds great.

 

[mentoneman]

I use an RJM mini mix. Works great, sounds great.

In the end that is what matters!

 

[RedB4Black]

Anyway, here goes (mhenson42 this is for you too!

Thanks for the input. I went ahead and ordered the MLC Dual Line mixer. Here's how I'm thinking of routing things... Hopefully this will work as I think it will with an Axe FX - so I can use effects in front of the amp and after the amp. The last line should be Matrix Output (not input to speakers)