Rig-Talk

Guys,

I've fallen victim to the overthinking/over researching virus...and am hoping maybe a few of you will have ideas that can help me out.

I'm looking for a 2 Channel head to sit on top of a Bogner 4x12...v30s loaded.

Criteria:
2 Channels
Killer Rock-Hard Rock 2nd Channel (love AIC, Tool, etc but not trying to cop their sound...just their levels of gain...borderline "metal."
1st Channel needs ability to get some hair or even crunchy on its own.
Must play well with v30s
$1800 or less used

I play humbucker guitars (PRS and LP). We keep one guitar tuned down a whole step and the other in standard.

Ideas?

Is three channels acceptable?

Splawn Quickrod
Ceriatone King Kong
EVH 5150 III
Marshall DSL or Boogie Mark V

What is the deal with the King Kong? CCV clone? Do people have these yet? Definitely interested.

The Ceriatone King Kong is a 2 channel Yeti/Chupacabra.

My understanding is that they have already or are about to ship.

I will be getting one soon.

Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet.

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Schecter Guitars
Bogner Überschall Rev 2/Twin Jet (Both with EL34/KT88 bias switches)
Bogner Überkab

http://soundcloud.com/leib10

From the criterias I'd say a Bogner Shiva is more in line

I have a quickrod for sale

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El Pico degallio


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Quickrod,fender supersonic head,carvin legacy 3 powerball II Fryette
4 fender USA strats
Too many fukin MM guitars
Mesa Royal atlantic, fender cyber amps.
1 Red head wife
1 Student Loan
150 nos tubes and still counting and selling
Mesa Stiletto Deuce 2

Rivera KR7? I have the amp and a custom one off Rivera matching k212 with the Seven speakers, should easily be able to cover that ground easily for that price range, The cab would throw it above the price you mentioned...

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Good deals with Steve_k & Splatter

Look at all the sellers in this thread...

I still say Shiva, and I'm not selling mine

Twin Jet peaks my interest but it seems like most preferred the rev blue or some previous version. Can the twin jets channel 2 hang or what?

20th Anny? It's definitely on the list BUT the clean channel has no gain...meaning it's going to take two stomps to get to my verse tone. Sounds minor but as the singer....I need everything to be a click away. Know what I mean?

Lots of great suggestions already.
Sounds like you may want a 2 channel amp that has gain options on both channels.
That's what my Egnater Vengeance can do in that price range
There are 2 main channels, clean and high gain.
Each channel also has 2 switchable levels of gain. The clean can be very clean, or kick in the light distortion or crunch.
The high gain channel has a light distortion/crunch that can be cranked up even more gain/distortion, and for more switch in the higher gain for 80's hard rock all the way to modern Metal goodness.

It's a pretty versatile amp.
You may like it or not. Check one out if you get a chance.

I really should do a couple recorded demo's to try and help others.
What types of music/tones do you like/want?

My bad, I misread your first post
I haven't tried cranking the Shiva's first channel volume
I can try it later tonight if you care at all (I have the standard EL34 version)

I don't know if you're going to find a Twin Jet for <= ~$1800.

I'd suggest Mesa Mark IV and Peavey JSX, I think they could meet your requirements. The JSX is seriously underrated, you can pick one up for ~$500. A steal, IMHO.

Mark IV or V.

I don't know first hand, but I've heard that the Mesa Stiletto is good for crunch/rock/hard rock tones. Two channels, there are a couple of switches though, haha. I believe that there is one in the classifieds for $1000, I'd buy it if I had the cash

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=156639

I have the same problem with my 20th Shiva. I think the best fix is a RJM switcher, only problem is that it makes your rig more complex for setting up and tearing down.

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Go for a Rhodes / KSR Orthos. You'll immediately fall in love with it.

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www.gearhaven.com.ar
http://www.youtube.com/user/johnretrucci
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^^^^
Great Answer!!
This is the first thing I thought of,
in his price range.

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Rig-Talk Smooth Deal's List:
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=141268[/img]

Fryette Sig X

Uberschall Rev2

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My new band: LIGHT of DAY on YouTube

“You think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s free!”

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows that AS A GOVERNMENT GROWS, LIBERTY DECREASES." -Gerald Ford

"If you think becoming educated is difficult, try being stupid!!" - Death by Uberschall

Current amps:
Bogner Uberschall (Rev2), Blackstar HT-5, Carvin Tube 100, Fender Tweed Deluxe 5E3 (1957), HiWatt DR504, Marshall 9100, Mesa Dual Rec (#654/RevF/MkIII trans/chrm chas/blck dia), Mesa RoadKing (red croc), Mesa Tri-Axis/2:90, Randall RG80, Rivera K-Tre', Soldano SLO (chrm croc, dpth md), Spiegel 603a

Click Me-> Tapping into Voodoo Phull Phaser <-Click Me

Amp GOD Warning: Death by Uberschall hurts like a MOFO!!
The Amp GOD Chronicles (EBAY idiots!!)

Fryette/VHT 50 or 100CL?
EVH 5150III
Old Egnater TOL50

Great suggestion! Sig x can cover a lot of ground and well, still miss one I had

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Wizard metal
Marshall JCM 2000
Bogner/Orange/splawn cabs
Gibson guitars

You could probably find a used one for around that price. I bought my used one off a forumite and it's been great!

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Good deals with leftydave, TheMagicEight, smdb, wiseblood, 92xl50, nevusofota, Steve_k, Ippon, ibanez4life SZ!, sschultz242, suhrimmetal, caseygree, Buckeyedog, zepsongs, billm408, mfred, and moltenmetalburn

Schecter Guitars
Bogner Überschall Rev 2/Twin Jet (Both with EL34/KT88 bias switches)
Bogner Überkab

http://soundcloud.com/leib10

Can the Sig X get more of a saggy feel? Not typically into super dry and tight amps....

Diezel Einstein
Ceriatone King Kong
Peters Dual Channel (if you can even find one used)
Soldano SLO (used, probably out of your price range though)
Uberschall
Mesa Mark III/IV

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Bogner cabs
DIY JCM800 Jose Mod
Mayones Duvell MBC

I have the deliverance, and it can (especially with a clean boost).

Would love to get my hands on one. Can you describe the tone? What about its relation to other amps? This idea is exciting....

I have a Bogner Twin Jet and you cant go wrong there or a regular Bogner Ubershall

The PRS Archon wasnt added to the list because he's selling it,he put it up there becuase this amp fits his needs.
Do your homework,listen to the videos(from PRS and Sweetwater) and you'll know for $1500.00,this IS your new amp.

This is high on the list man.

What differences do you notice between el34s and kt88s?

2 channel Mesa dual or triple rectifier RevF

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Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier Rev F Blackface '93
Mesa Boogie Road King 4x12
Orange 2x12

Mayones Regius 7 MBC
ESP Eclipse I CTM
ESP ltd Explorer pre-lawsuit
ESP ltd ZH-7
Yamaha RGX-420S
Yamaha FG-180 '72
Blueridge BR-OS '91

I picked up my TJ for $1550

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Rippin' it up on a Squire 3/4 scale and Rage 158!

HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've never seen an amp respond to different tubes like my TJ did. Mine came with EL34's as the guy I bought it from converted it when that was popular after the TJ came out. I hated it. Amp sounded boxy and I couldn't EQ a mid hump out of the amp to save my life. I wanted a slightly scooped modern metal sound, which is why I bought a TJ, not an 80's hair thing marshall, so I was pretty disappointed. I converted it back to stock Sovtek KT88's and what a huge difference. It got tight on the low end like a TJ is supposed to be, but mainly sounded balanced in the EQ range. I love it now and run it in stereo with my Diezel Herbert.

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Rippin' it up on a Squire 3/4 scale and Rage 158!

This.

If you're close to one of the large cities, watch that CL and eventually you'll nab an early rev F for 9-1000 range. Even a rev G wouldn't be a bad choice, and could probably pick one up for a hundred or two less than that.

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Rippin' it up on a Squire 3/4 scale and Rage 158!

I think I hear some jet noise in my future...

I have a few weeks to figure it out and it may just depend on what's available when I'm ready to buy.

What's the going rate on a used Sig X? Can't find any ads.

Somewhere around 1400$ if I remember correctly

You will not be upset whatsoever. Get that KT88/EL34 switch mod and poop yourself.

I would prefer the rev.2 but that TJ might definitely be in my top 3 of amps.

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"Your cab on the floor becomes one with the earth, thus more resonant."

"It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission"

A rev 2 over a TJ? Why? I thought the TJ was the shiznit of the Uber models.

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Rippin' it up on a Squire 3/4 scale and Rage 158!

Hey check out the PMA2100 by Paul & 'Mills amps.
Im on my phone and it wont let me pull up te full editor
But feel free to pm us for details pictures and videos.
The 2100 is a 100 watt 2 channel amp with a gain boost
Its vicious. And they go for under a grand, for an american handmade amp.

Yes and no. The TJ is supposed to have the high gain channel of the Original/Rev2, but I think something was lost in translation. More than likely it's tweaks to the power section. The Orig/Rev2 have an organic 3D quality to them that was lost in the Blue Revision. The TJ didn't seem the recapture that magic. Play at Rev2 at moderate volume and you'll understand.

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My new band: LIGHT of DAY on YouTube

“You think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s free!”

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows that AS A GOVERNMENT GROWS, LIBERTY DECREASES." -Gerald Ford

"If you think becoming educated is difficult, try being stupid!!" - Death by Uberschall

Current amps:
Bogner Uberschall (Rev2), Blackstar HT-5, Carvin Tube 100, Fender Tweed Deluxe 5E3 (1957), HiWatt DR504, Marshall 9100, Mesa Dual Rec (#654/RevF/MkIII trans/chrm chas/blck dia), Mesa RoadKing (red croc), Mesa Tri-Axis/2:90, Randall RG80, Rivera K-Tre', Soldano SLO (chrm croc, dpth md), Spiegel 603a

Click Me-> Tapping into Voodoo Phull Phaser <-Click Me

Amp GOD Warning: Death by Uberschall hurts like a MOFO!!
The Amp GOD Chronicles (EBAY idiots!!)

Hmmm. I would assume the other ubers don't have a boxy mid hump to them like a TJ with 34's right? I would assume they are designed around the EQ of a 34? Which the TJ to my ears was clearly NOT.

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Rippin' it up on a Squire 3/4 scale and Rage 158!

Idk, I've heard plenty of clips of the Rev. 2 and don't think it touches the Twin Jet for aggression and clarity. It's a more compressed and smoother tone to my ears.

Just skip it and get a Bogner 101b and get 3 channels?

Oh, I have one for sale at a close price :lol:

I'd say the Diezel Lil Fokker ticks just about every requirement on the list. Plus, Diezels are designed & voiced for use with V30 speakers.

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Manuel Contreras Concert Classical
Paulino Bernabe Snr Concert Classical

Leib is the best candidate to explain the difference here. There is also a thread he made in the Bogner section highly detailing the differences between all of the revisions and this guy knows his Bogners.

I will try me best to explain my experience. I played both of his amps the Rev. 2 and the TJ. Both have the KT88/EL34 mod and the tubes make a HUGE difference IMO.

The Rev. 2 as stated was very organic, opened up and filled the room and has the most crushing brutal tone and was very dark sounding which I really liked.

The TJ may have been more middy, hard to recall because I highly favored the Rev.2 but I will say the TJ gave me some very brutal tone as well. The problem I had with the TJ was that I couldnt get what I wanted with active pickups while the Rev. 2 took both Active and passive very well.

I tried a stock TJ in the store before I met Leib and was thoroughly UNimpressed. Sounded like a slightly better Peavey and for the price tag I chuckled to myself and went to the next amp.

But once you get the right tubes, tweak it a bit (pretty sensitive amps imo) You can get a rediculous sound.

The TJ probably has a better clean channel than the Rev. 2 but that Dark crushing Organic sound I got from the Rev. 2 can not be beat in my book.

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"Your cab on the floor becomes one with the earth, thus more resonant."

"It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission"

Uberschall differences

This is the basic rundown of the Uberschalls:

Original - Fast gain taper on Gain Channel (some have said almost like an Off/On kind of jump in gain), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, plastic carry handle (although some Original Uberschalls got the leather handle just prior to transitioning into the Rev2), EL34

Rev2 - Reduced gain taper on Gain Channel (same gain, just more controllable), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, leather carry handle, EL34

Revision Blue - Same basic gain structure, lower plate voltage, less power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume matched closer to Gain Channel, re-design of circuits, addition of Loop volume control, bias test points, power jewel changed to smaller LED type, dedicated design ability to allow power section slaving from an outside source (but this can be accomplished on Original/Rev2 versions), EL34

Twin Jet 1.0 - Gain Channel re-design in a direction towards the Original/Rev2 designs, plate voltage around 530v, less power section compression (due to the design switch to KT88 power tubes), Clean channel re-do in the direction of a high gain modded Marshall tone with very little ability to get a truly clean sound, addition of power section Presence and Depth controls, KT88

Twin Jet 1.1 - The same as 1.0 but with a modded gain taper on the clean channel, same level of gain available as 1.0 with the ability to go lower gain and clean up better
Twin Jet Purple mod – Clean channel becomes more “Marshall” like and the addition of the purple power LED.

Now keep in mind, I made up TJ 1.0/1.1 for the purpose of comparison , I don't think Bogner looks at them that way. Bogner does offer to perform the Clean Channel mod for anybody who owns what I call 1.0 at no charge.


These are the main differences I know about. I don't know specific component values between the different versions from a design stand point, but I can say my descriptions above, for the most part, are right on the money by way of research, comparisons and the general consensus from those who have had time with them. The volume difference between the Clean Channel and Gain Channel on the Original and Rev2 seem to be exaggerated. Yes there is a difference, but nothing that can't be fixed by just turning the Clean Channel Volume control up a little more than the Gain Channel volume control. Another words, adjust the amp with your ears, not your eyes.

_________________
My new band: LIGHT of DAY on YouTube

“You think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s free!”

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows that AS A GOVERNMENT GROWS, LIBERTY DECREASES." -Gerald Ford

"If you think becoming educated is difficult, try being stupid!!" - Death by Uberschall

Current amps:
Bogner Uberschall (Rev2), Blackstar HT-5, Carvin Tube 100, Fender Tweed Deluxe 5E3 (1957), HiWatt DR504, Marshall 9100, Mesa Dual Rec (#654/RevF/MkIII trans/chrm chas/blck dia), Mesa RoadKing (red croc), Mesa Tri-Axis/2:90, Randall RG80, Rivera K-Tre', Soldano SLO (chrm croc, dpth md), Spiegel 603a

Click Me-> Tapping into Voodoo Phull Phaser <-Click Me

Amp GOD Warning: Death by Uberschall hurts like a MOFO!!
The Amp GOD Chronicles (EBAY idiots!!)

Twin Jet took a little while for the KT88's to break in I'll admit. But, after that I preferred it big time over the Rev. Blue, plus the 1st channel gets some great JCM800 tones. It is more dynamic, with more clarity and string separation than previous Ubers.

That's definitely the tempting thing about the twin jet...too very different types of gain channels. I'm definitely leaning towards the TJ. Will probably change my mind 30 times before it's all said and done.

Wish more folks had the Lil Fokker. Interested in the reviews and will be watching as they come in.

Ch1 of the TJ is not my thing, too much mids and too marshall like, but I could see someone liking it that likes a more classic sound. For me, Ch2, slightly scooped, is where it's at.

_________________
Rippin' it up on a Squire 3/4 scale and Rage 158!

Looks like I'm late to the Uber party!

If you're deciding between the Rev 2 and Twin Jet, let me say this up front. Both are outstanding amps. It's hard to have almost $4000 tied up in two boxes sitting on a speaker cab, especially in my financial situation. I've tried to justify selling one or the other, but I just can't bring myself to because they are two very unique and different amps.

I'll say this: there is very little real overlap with these amps. The second channel is not the same on them. The Rev 2's is more compressed, saggy, saturated, and midrangey because of the EL34s, which lends it more to hard rock and big chugging metal riffs. I also find it less forgiving and more difficult to play. The Twin Jet's is more modern, aggressive, scooped, tighter, and dryer. It is an easier amp to play and is more responsive and with better note separation. I prefer it for more articulate, faster metal riffs.

The 1st channel of the Rev 2 is pretty underrated IMO. You're not getting Fender cleans out of it, but it works well enough for an amp whose main attraction is elsewhere. The Twin Jet's first channel gives nice, shimmering cleans at low gain, all the way to straight JCM800 tones. It actually reminded me and another forumite of the Rev 2's gain channel in a way. Don't listen to the people who tell you that you can't get clean tones at high volume out of it; they are wrong. It is a very versatile channel. The Twin Jet also has external bias points and pot and the FX loop volume control, as well as the power section controls that really allow you to tweak the low end and upper midrange.

My honest opinion? If you're only going to have one, get the Twin Jet. It is more versatile and user-friendly. It's hard for me to say that because the Rev 2 has my favorite distorted tone of all time. I wish Bogner had really taken the Rev 2 and added external bias points and the power section controls, but they didn't. As a result, the Twin Jet is your best bet.

_________________
Good deals with leftydave, TheMagicEight, smdb, wiseblood, 92xl50, nevusofota, Steve_k, Ippon, ibanez4life SZ!, sschultz242, suhrimmetal, caseygree, Buckeyedog, zepsongs, billm408, mfred, and moltenmetalburn

Schecter Guitars
Bogner Überschall Rev 2/Twin Jet (Both with EL34/KT88 bias switches)
Bogner Überkab

http://soundcloud.com/leib10