scriptphase
Active member
OMG, I forgot about that. NES Gumshoe FTW!Indeed they do. Try playing Nintendo's original NES Duck Hunt with the Zapper Gun on a LCD tv.
Kemper versus Cranked Plexi
- Thread starter harddriver
- Start date
imzadimark
Member
I just don’t want to read the words “golden ears” anymore.
BatmansRigTalk
Active member
https://paleotronic.com/2018/11/10/emulating-the-tube-completing-the-retro-experience/Indeed they do. Try playing Nintendo's original NES Duck Hunt with the Zapper Gun on a LCD tv.
Speeddemon
Well-known member
Sorry, that's not what I'm talking about.
You may wanna read up on this a little:
https://www.howtogeek.com/181303/ht...per-worked-and-why-it-doesnt-work-on-new-tvs/
harddriver
Well-known member
That's exactly what alot us of have been saying throughout this entire travesty of a thread. I lost track how many times people said the Aussie EVH tone was album correct and fantastic, now the feel and dynamics on the stage for the guitar player is another story .
311splawndude
Well-known member
Not to pile on but I don't think those are good analogies. Music through amps (or a modeler) is an art form. Music in general. Most would argue that photography is too, regardless of analog or DSLR but I know photographers that swear by there old non digital cameras.
I like the minuscule nuances and flaws that real amps produce.
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BatmansRigTalk
Active member
I don't disagree with them being art forms but I will disagree with valve purists who claim valve amplifiers can't be profiled by today's technology. I own and play with valve amps and profilers. I don't make those claims though because they are just objectively false to make. Truth matters. Profilers accomplished this task 10 years ago.
All these minuscule nuances and flaws can be profiled. Software can easily introduce variations. For example, Two Notes Wall of Sound has a feature that lets you dial in overloading a speaker to the point that it is nearly ready to blow.
How many people here will like to take their 25W greenbacks and send a 50W or 100W cranked amp through them? You got 3 min and then you get the smell of smoke. That's your recording time if you want that sound. An expensive way to get there. Or you can do it all day long with overload on WOS and not wreck anything, including your amp. Plus you actually get to crank these amps which you can be sure is something rarely done by many people here talking about how the cranked sound of a tube amp can't be profiled. They need their load boxes which means their cabs won't be pushing the volume of air needed to replicate cabs pushing cranked volumes of air. So they are already making tone sacrifices along the way and won't be faithfully reproducing a cranked tone of that amp, despite owning and running the real deal... and we haven't even begun to talk about how amps vary anyway even sticking with the same model.
As for old nondigital cameras, it depends. A good set of lenses makes all the difference but 35mm and 70mm resolutions were obtained a decade ago and photoshop is well capable of producing flaws and artifacts generated randomly. This stuff can fool people who claim to have a ...
Fine.
mooncobra
Well-known member
Agreed, modelers are getting close, but not there yet. I had a Kemper and did not like it. It was the feel I didn’t like.
Speeddemon
Well-known member
I think the discussion becomes murky once you start comparing a Kemper with a Two Notes product that still requires an actual tube amp as input.
I have used modelers on and off since the Boss GT-3 era, then a Digitech Genesis 3 (which I found more interesting at the time than a POD 2.0), but that Digitech also grew very plasticy on me. Years later bought a used POD x3, so that I would at least have that Soldano based Line6 High Gain again, plus more tweakability than what the PODxt offered...
these days I use it for rough demo tracks only. My Two Notes Torpedo Live is something else, but...it requires a tube amp as input. It doesn't do amp modelling.
Never used a Kemper, but personally I wasn't that impressed with the 3rd video (Italian guy) doing the EVH comparison. One thing you notice, is when you hear Ed's guitar solo and THEN his guitar, the difference is quite there. But the rest of the time he plays ALONGSIDE Ed's sound, so that makes it less clear (unless you're sitting here with a L/R control on your headphones).
That's not to say I haven't heard impressive Kemper tones, FWIW.
I have used modelers on and off since the Boss GT-3 era, then a Digitech Genesis 3 (which I found more interesting at the time than a POD 2.0), but that Digitech also grew very plasticy on me. Years later bought a used POD x3, so that I would at least have that Soldano based Line6 High Gain again, plus more tweakability than what the PODxt offered...
these days I use it for rough demo tracks only. My Two Notes Torpedo Live is something else, but...it requires a tube amp as input. It doesn't do amp modelling.
Never used a Kemper, but personally I wasn't that impressed with the 3rd video (Italian guy) doing the EVH comparison. One thing you notice, is when you hear Ed's guitar solo and THEN his guitar, the difference is quite there. But the rest of the time he plays ALONGSIDE Ed's sound, so that makes it less clear (unless you're sitting here with a L/R control on your headphones).
That's not to say I haven't heard impressive Kemper tones, FWIW.
Is anyone who prefers playing a tube amp over a modeler a 'valve purist'? Or does one have to have grown up on tubes,
take a side-bar into digital, then go back to tubes and swear by then to be a V.P.?
Can a person prefer tube amps without being a V.P.?
If someone only plays modelers does that make them a 'silicone purist'?
I don't think anyone has made this claim. Correct me if I'm wrong.
See above.
What truth is it of which you speak?
Again, I don't think anyone is arguing that profilers can't model tube amps.
Some just have a tube amp preference - which somehow makes us an outlier to you.
BatmansRigTalk
Active member
Two Notes can model power tubes from a pre-amp line out and so behave like a slave.
Examples of regular buyers using their Plexi are murky anyway because they are attenuating and so the cab isn't pushing the same volume of air it needs to sound like the tone they got the amp for in the first place, especially when comparing up vintage clips of EvH playing. This is another thing profilers can get around. Two Notes is a load box and does attenuate but at least you can emulate that volume of air being pushed through to have those speakers moving properly to induce the right response curve.
As for the video of that guy replicating EvH, you can use earbuds and just take one out. Also this time you actually got a side by side comparison.
Not being that impressed with what he did says plenty about valve purists though. How do you think you come across to others? That you have good taste or are being a bit conceited? You also set all sorts of standards here for yourself and your playing to meet. I must be talking to someone who can play and sound exactly like EvH. Are you that good?
Kemper or any digital modeler/profiler = CD of live show
Real amp= being at the show
Technically in my opinion they sound identical but there is a difference.
Digital also cant replicate the feel of an amp. Like when I had a Kemper playing a Splawn profile against a BE profile feels exactly the same. Part of being a guitarist is the experience of each individual component with their imperfections and idiosyncrasies. It's part of the personality of your rig.
Real amp= being at the show
Technically in my opinion they sound identical but there is a difference.
Digital also cant replicate the feel of an amp. Like when I had a Kemper playing a Splawn profile against a BE profile feels exactly the same. Part of being a guitarist is the experience of each individual component with their imperfections and idiosyncrasies. It's part of the personality of your rig.
Speeddemon
Well-known member
You're the one being presented with differing opinions and you STILL want to prove you're the one who's right.
When you claimed LCD's should be able to do everything that an old CRT could, I showed you an example where they fail.
When I make a point of a Two Notes product that needs a tube amp's input and therefore is not an amp modeller, you take the semantic road about Two Notes doing some power amp modelling. Wasn't talking about that. You know it, but you want to be right.
THAT's being conceited, buddy. And since when do *I* need to play and sound exactly like EVH before I can make a judgement whether another guitarists nails EVH's tone, let alone his playing?
Oh, and my disclaimer?
1) I was listening through really good headphones. Beyer DT-990 Pro. Sure ain't gonna listen through EARBUDS to judge audio quality, just so I can take one out. If that makes me a snob, so be it.
2) I have been recording since '96. First Tascam portastudio 4 track, then Yamaha Minidisk 8 track, then a whole bunch of all-in-one boxes from small (Boss BR-600) to big (Akai DPS-24), and now I can use either an A&H GSR24 desk + outboard gear into an Alesis HD24XR or a Korg D1200MKII as a quick-demo sketch tool.
Not boasting, just saying I have some experience and know-how that is relevant here.
If I was I was a valve purist, why is there still a POD X3 on my desk? And yeah, I love recording tube amps, but don't want to deal with the volume issues... Enter Torpedo Live. The right tool for the right job.
But go ahead, I'm sure you're next post will be some semantic reach around, how you're still right. Whatevs. Enjoy your Kemper and let others be.
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skullfxr
Well-known member
What is the deal with the hostile defences? If you like it use it. Period.
I have my tube amps and like and use them. I have a mic if I want to mic them up. I have software and the Suhr RLIR if I need to watch the volume and record. And I like that. It works for me.
There is nothing wrong with liking tube amps, modelers, or both. Use what works. They both have their place and strengths and weaknesses.
There are a lot of good things that have came into existence that bridge the gap between analog and digital. Two Notes, Suhr RLIR, Fryette Power Station. Etc. Etc.
They are all tools in a tool box. You can use the whole box, not just one tool.
I have my tube amps and like and use them. I have a mic if I want to mic them up. I have software and the Suhr RLIR if I need to watch the volume and record. And I like that. It works for me.
There is nothing wrong with liking tube amps, modelers, or both. Use what works. They both have their place and strengths and weaknesses.
There are a lot of good things that have came into existence that bridge the gap between analog and digital. Two Notes, Suhr RLIR, Fryette Power Station. Etc. Etc.
They are all tools in a tool box. You can use the whole box, not just one tool.
skullfxr
Well-known member
This. Is. BRILLIANCE.
Speeddemon
Well-known member
I know right?
For someone who's seemingly baffled at the stubbornness of 'valve purists', he sure goes to lengths to 'prove 'em wrong', yet when he's presented with decent arguments or opinions, he laughs it away. It doesn't fit his world, so 'we' must be wrong, or conceited.
Most of his posts are in this thread and the '10 years' thread...
We get it, you like A, we like B. Live and let live! Jeez... But no... He has scientific facts on his side, why liking B is a 'wrong choice' or fallacy.
raybarbeemusic
Member
Incorrect but often repeated Internet 'wisdom' that led to silliness like "preamp gain sucks, power tube clipping rules!"
By the time a plexi is giving up the goods, there is clipping in the pre amp, power section, possibly speakers and transformer saturation. You cant cut that into pieces, it's a synergistic whole.
I got to spend an afternoon with EVH and his long time guitar tech about 10? years ago and at one point he basically
said "Fuck the tubes man, the tone is in the transformer and how you sweat it."
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