Kemper versus Cranked Plexi

Which do you prefer? Amplifier attributes only...

  • Kemper

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Real cranked plexi

    Votes: 11 78.6%

  • Total voters
    14

[ Donnie B. ]

Well-known member
By the time a plexi is giving up the goods, there is clipping in the pre amp, power section, possibly speakers and transformer saturation. You cant cut that into pieces, it's a synergistic whole.

I got to spend an afternoon with EVH and his long time guitar tech about 10? years ago and at one point he basically
said "Fuck the tubes man, the tone is in the transformer and how you sweat it."
 
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BatmansRigTalk

Active member
Incorrect but often repeated Internet 'wisdom' that led to silliness like "preamp gain sucks, power tube clipping rules!"

By the time a plexi is giving up the goods, there is clipping in the pre amp, power section, possibly speakers and transformer saturation. You cant cut that into pieces, it's a synergistic whole.
I don't understand your cutting to pieces analogy. This isn't editing sound.

Can you honestly hear recorded differences on there enough to win the golden ears challenge? Nobody really says yes to this do they?

Even tube amp engineers know their systems are based on rules of physics being obeyed and science applied through electrical engineering to create electric guitar frequencies for sound.

Music is what you make with it. Just gear.
 

[ Donnie B. ]

Well-known member
golden ears

You use this phrase all the time, yet it's not even appropriate for the discussion.

"We probably all know someone we consider to have golden ears. A person with hearing so acute they can pass judgment on recordings and stereo systems in microseconds. And they’re almost always correct.
Yet, does the term apply only to people with anatomically perfect appendages?
It doesn’t take a lot of thought to answer that question. No, of course not. There is no perfect ear. Everyone’s ears are different. None are better than any others at the task.
What we can say with some measure of accuracy is that some listeners are better trained than others. That people with a lot of exposure to the sound of live instruments, or training to pay close attention to small details, or those who have developed advanced abilities to capture, retain, and compare, are all closer to the ideal of a golden ear. The gold in the ears is earned." - Paul McGowan, founder and CEO of: https://www.psaudio.com/
 

Monkey Man

Well-known member
Indeed, Donnie.

Once you begin to identify a particular characteristic in audio, you can't "unhear" it and it sticks out like the proverbial from that moment onwards.
 

[ Donnie B. ]

Well-known member
Indeed, Donnie.

Once you begin to identify a particular characteristic in audio, you can't "unhear" it and it sticks out like the proverbial from that moment onwards.

Golden Ears? pfffft.

gold.gif
 

aside

Active member
Yeah the golden ears thing is fucking tiring and irrelevant. I haven't been on this forum too long, but it seems everytime the Kemper or Axe or whatever flavour of the month digital box is being discussed it goes like this:
A: I tried the Kemper. It didn't really sound or feel as good to me, so I'm sticking with tube amps.
B: You're wrong, it's exactly the same in every way, perfect and people that aren't you with better ears than you say you're wrong too.
A: Not to me, but whatever you say man.
B. You're wrong, it's perfect.
A: Ok dude, whatever.
B: And once the new update comes out it will be more flawless and more perfect, so you'll be more wrong.
A: Ok cool. Hang on, how can something that was perfect become more perfect?
B. You're wrong. It's scientific, you wouldn't understand. Did I mention I'm right?
A: 'Loudly playing a tube amp while wondering how much you can sell that shitbox FRFR for.'
 

Monkey Man

Well-known member
B: And once the new update comes out it will be more flawless and more perfect, so you'll be more wrong.
A: Ok cool. Hang on, how can something that was perfect become more perfect?
B. You're wrong. It's scientific, you wouldn't understand. Did I mention I'm right?
This last part doesn't apply to Kemper, but for others, yes.

There's been only one change to the sound of the Kemper in 10 years, and it was only a tiny tweak to the very-low end of the frequency spectrum as far as guitar amps are concerned. An EQ adjustment of a few dB was made to the Profiling engine in an area so-low it's barely been talked about on the forum (nobody notices or cares) - something in the 70Hz area I think.

IOW, for all intents and purposes, there's been no change since it dropped in late 2011.

This is the only exception I can think of 'cause every other company either changes its models via software updates or new hardware models.
 

[ Donnie B. ]

Well-known member

Marketing 101. Take a long time existing product and find a new sales flow by
giving it a new specialized 'designator' to entice the proposed market.

FRFR = a monitor that is NOT by any definition FULL range or FLAT response.
 
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BatmansRigTalk

Active member
I put up a poll and thread about the claim some people can always tell the difference between profiles and the real deal from recordings.


It also points out how even amp identification can be wrong.

It explains the complexity of speaker types, microphone type, and placement.

There isn't really much to say about that difference except any can be matched by tweaking both rigs.

Only in certain circumstances where a guitarist uses a stack on stage will they be able to feel the volume of air and sound directionally coming at them and around them. FRFR or monitor speakers are wider spreading. That means the feeling of air moving can be a little different. You can imagine standing and closing your eyes to different types of airflow systems matching some sounds basically. However, if you are gigging with the need for 2x12 or 4x12 guitar speaker cabinets then chances are the venue will want loudspeakers of more wattage than your rig. These will be FRFR speakers onto the audience. That is what they will hear because it is louder than your rig.

The distance between you and that system matters also. If that was aimed at you then you would be getting feedback. Your strings would be picking up resonance from those monitors. Even with musician front monitors. Even a profiler on stage if played through a guitar FFRFR speaker cab system like a Mission or Friedman can feedback the same way.

  • Frequency Range: 50Hz - 20kHz
  • Frequency Response: 58Hz -18kHz
GM-Io_front-v2_web-1.jpg



AF_FA_ASC-12-Back_2000x2000.jpg

The Line6 Powercab happens to be a power amp in a cab for modelers.

I am not saying these are like the airflow from tube combos or 4x12 stacks.

Do you ever see that 1x12 or 2x12 rectangular floor combo used by some bands since forever in among bigger speakers and other gear to supplement the tone? Usually, that smaller system is producing the tones in the in-ear monitors of the guitarist. Modern examples include the Mesa Boogie Mark V combos or head turned up loud. A profiler can do this also. Fender custom tweed deluxe amps are another example of that small system being the real tone among the touring rig up on stage for guitarists. Vox AC30 is another popular combo for this. Sometimes they might even be off stage or behind a rig wall. U2 decided on a larger visual performance being stage gear minimalists. They basically have a bunker. In that bunker, the amps being microphoned up are there on the floor with their amp engineer maintaining it all.

 
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aside

Active member
Strangely, I'm still sticking with my ears and experience, rather than your pretty pictures and youtube links. But thanks once again for trying to shove your opinion down our throats. Your relentless posting on why so many of us are wrong is just ace.
 

panhead

Well-known member
Alot of it is the phase inverter making that distortion. On nonmaster the preamp is not limited like a master volume
 

panhead

Well-known member
May sound close but the difference is the feel when your actually the one playing it. They all still have Line 6 attributes.
 
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